A Conspiracy Against Love, page
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Topic started on 28-2-2005 @ 11:51 AM by 00PS
After three discussions in the last week I feel I have to engage in my first 'God' topic here at ATS.
As a member only for only 4 and a half months, I have tried to stay away from posting in religious threads.
This is because many members cannot engage in discussion about religion without having tolerant views.

I politely request if you have no intention to add to this dicussion respectfully please only watch.

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Personal Background My father is a retired Lutheran Pastor and Assistant Bishop of the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Synod of America). I grew up in a very conservative Christian home. I had to go to sunday school and church every week. Sometimes for two services. I was very comfortable in my faith and strong in it's views regarding marraige and adultery.

In high school I stayed a virgin but alas in my College I found the pleasures of life to be great. I always was monogamous with my partners of which I had 3 in 4 years. However I do remember getting drunk twice and waking up with two different girls...but that's a whole different story.

I am now married and have never and plan never to be tempted by others' flesh. This may have been founded in my religious upbringing but it is not enforced by it. I choose monogamy as personal preference. I do oppose, however, individuals who views may be considered Facist when they state all peoples of the world must have the same preferences as their God dictates.

After conversations with few members on ATS and you know who you are, I have created this forum to deal with the central question, is the concept of Thou Shall Not Committ Adultry a monogamous conspiracy against love?

To guide us in our discussion I have created sub questions and will add more if needed as the discussion progresses.


Guiding Questions
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Question: Is adultery, as defined as marraige outside wedlock, something that occurs only after one has married?

Question: Is pre-marital sex adultry in the eyes of the Christian God?

Question: Is adultery contradictory to polygamy?

Question: Is adultery actually a man made concept to promote monogamy and one not given by God?

Question: Biblical charachters were polygamous and holy men, does that not mean marraige is not specifically a monogamouos union?


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Thank you, 00ps





EDIT:FORMAT




[edit on 28-2-2005 by 00PS]


reply posted on 28-2-2005 @ 12:47 PM by Jehosephat
Originally posted by 00PS


Question: Is adultery, as defined as marraige outside wedlock, something that occurs only after one has married?
1 Corinthians 7:2-5 is a section that speaks of marriage as the answer to those who do not have the gift or ability to live without sexual activity. That solution is marriage and having sex with your life's partner, not simply becoming sexually active. Hebrews 13:4 is a strong passage that on the one hand speaks highly of the marriage bed (sexual activity within marriage) and on the other hand flatly condemns sexual activity outside of marriage. (The Bible words usually translated "adultery" may refer to a wide range of wrong sexual behavior, whether by those married or unmarried.) And all the passages that refer to marital unfaithfulness (like Matthew 19:9) assume sexual activity within marriage while condemning such activity outside of the marriage bond.

Question: Is pre-marital sex adultry in the eyes of the Christian God?
The basic passage is Genesis 2:4 which is also quoted by Jesus in Matthew 19:6. God instituted marriage to be a union of one man and one woman. The man is to leave his father and mother and be united to his wife. Only then do they become one flesh to enjoy the blessing of sexual intercourse that God gives us in marriage. Heb 13:4 and 1 Co 7:2-5 also speak about marriage as the only place where God wants his gift of sexual intercourse to be practiced. The better way to translate 1 Thess 4:3-5 (instead of "control his own body" in the NIV the words should read "obtain a wife") also speaks to this point.

Question: Is adultery contradictory to polygamy?
If you define Adultery as being an immoral sexual act. The Bible never explicitly prohibits polygamy, but it does state God's original intention for marriage: one man and one woman in a one flesh relationship. It also illustrates the ill results of polygamy. Romans 7:2-3 shows it is wrong to marry a second spouse.

Question: Is adultery actually a man made concept to promote monogamy and one not given by God?
I am not sure what you mean by this since God promotes monogamy, as does a majority of man made laws.

Question: Biblical charachters were polygamous and holy men, does that not mean marraige is not specifically a monogamouos union?
Almost all of the patriarches in the bible were married to only one women. Any adulterous relationships, or even marriage to more then one women never worked out in the long run, and often caused more harm in the end. For Abraham, none of his offspring other then the one to Sarah ever inherited Gods promise of a savior being born to the line. For Soloman he fell into sin, and the Kingdom became divded, and evetually destroyed.

If you do have Luthern background, wouldn't it have been easier to look at Luther's Large Catechism: 6th Commandment?


reply posted on 28-2-2005 @ 01:10 PM by JamesBlonde
Originally posted by 00PS
Question: Is adultery, as defined as marraige outside wedlock, something that occurs only after one has married?

Question: Is pre-marital sex adultry in the eyes of the Christian God?

Question: Is adultery contradictory to polygamy?

Question: Is adultery actually a man made concept to promote monogamy and one not given by God?

Question: Biblical charachters were polygamous and holy men, does that not mean marraige is not specifically a monogamouos union?


____________________________________________________


Thank you, 00ps





EDIT:FORMAT




[edit on 28-2-2005 by 00PS]


I do not believe that any of your questions address the true nature of the conspiracy against love that destroys the world around us. We have not experienced true way that life was meant to be and while we live in a world where we continiue to hurt each other we will continiue to deprive each other of the true, intended experience of love. If you can/have look(ed) into the eyes of your partner and see that you share a love that denies fear, doubt and pain then you are fighting this conspiracy We have to be able to look into the eyes of our partners, married or casual, and see that admission pass between us to begin to experience the intended emotion that two people findin sharing themselves together.
Religion is a totally different matter to me. I do not need it because I see the path I need to follow cleary. I also see the confusion and harm it causes to others who suffer at the hands of those who corrupt it.


[edit on 28/2/2005 by JamesBlonde]

[edit on 28/2/2005 by JamesBlonde]


reply posted on 28-2-2005 @ 02:50 PM by 00PS
Originally posted by Jehosephat
If you do have Luthern background, wouldn't it have been easier to look at Luther's Large Catechism: 6th Commandment?


I cut my catechism book all up to make cheat sheets. I hated catechism class. I went to Christian private schools from Pre-K until 7th grade. I had 2 years of Catechism class. What made it worse was the principal was the teacher.

If you would like to mail me one that would be great. I would also like the green hym book. You know I've never seen them in China!!!

I think you covered lots of things well but about the polygamy...we'll have to go into that one further.

Originally posted by Marg6043
I tell you what, I am not a Christian believer but if you want harmony in relationship stay monogamous otherwise you will be on trouble.


Marg, while I agree with you on most of the things you write here I have to say that what may be fine for me may not be fine for someone else. I choose Monogamy. However I question Polygamy as a form adultry but cannot come to a clear understanding of this.

Originally posted by JamesBlonde
I do not believe that any of your questions address the true nature of the conspiracy against love that destroys the world around us. We have not experienced true way that life was meant to be and while we live in a world where we continiue to hurt each other we will continiue to deprive each other of the true, intended experience of love. If you can/have look(ed) into the eyes of your partner and see that you share a love that denies fear, doubt and pain then you are fighting this conspiracy We have to be able to look into the eyes of our partners, married or casual, and see that admission pass between us to begin to experience the intended emotion that two people findin sharing themselves together.
Religion is a totally different matter to me. I do not need it because I see the path I need to follow cleary. I also see the confusion and harm it causes to others who suffer at the hands of those who corrupt it.


Just a note, you don't have to quote my whole thread to reply to me it does slow loading times down. Anyways I know what you say, I also stated we can add more questions as we go. I hope we can create a focused and in-depth discussion about the Conspiracy against love and how it's perpetuated by religion and the bible. If you have things to add to the discussion such as guiding questions and comments like the ones above please add them!

Thanks,

00ps

EDIT: I see you have added a link to Luthers Large online...I still would like a hard back though Thanks for the link.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by 00PS]


reply posted on 28-2-2005 @ 10:40 PM by Tamahu
This Gnostic Definition of Adultry makes sense:


Adultery

"Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse."

In Universal Gnosticism, it is understood that the act of sexual union forges a psychic and karmic bond: a marriage. "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." (Genesis 2:24) Therefore, our first sexual connection becomes our first marriage; and when we connect with another person, we commit adultery, unless this act is in accordance with the Will of the Inner Being.

Going further, we understand from Jesus of Nazreth that adultery is also commited in the heart, simply by looking upon another person in a lustful way. So in synthesis, we are all adulterers, until the moment when lust has been completely removed from our psyche.




Peace
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