What Existed before light was made here? Where did the CREATOR of Light come from?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

If it is, it is separate from what is not.

And therefore not whole!

Or isn't it?

NC

a reply to: NoClue

What is not?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Nothing...

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Where is time and space??
Can time or anything other than what is appearing ever be found?

The way I understand it, time is inextricably related with space and change, and space is a dimension where we exist in.

As for where they are, I'm not sure the question makes sense, because "where" needs coordinates that exist in space. To find answers to these deep and difficult questions, one needs a divine guide and only through God that can be achieved.

Now, as far who "stretched/created" this space, I think the answer is God, in one of His manifestations He is timeless and formless. We and everything come from God and live within God. A good analogy might be the fish in the ocean, where the ocean represents God and fish is everything, us included.

Concepts arise and subside within the timeless.

You could be onto something with this. Agreed 👍

originally posted by: miri2019
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Where is time and space??
Can time or anything other than what is appearing ever be found?

The way I understand it, time is inextricably related with space and change, and space is a dimension where we exist in.

This ever present space could be called the image of God..... but it is timeless because it is ever present.
This ever present space never goes anywhere but constantly appears different.

Now, as far who "stretched/created" this space, I think the answer is God, in one of His manifestations He is timeless and formless. We and everything come from God and live within God. A good analogy might be the fish in the ocean, where the ocean represents God and fish is everything, us included.

Every thing (including the appearance of man) is made in the image of God.
The image of God never really forms any solid separate thing.... it is ever changing, hence formless and is ever present, so timeless.

You could be onto something with this. Agreed 👍

Time and space are concepts... there is nothing other than what is happening.... concepts happen.... words happen and stories about someone in time happen, all within the non conceptual.

Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.

There is only ever what is happening.... .the way, the truth, the life.

originally posted by: NoClue
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Nothing...

If nothing is appearing to happen (emptiness forming) .... is there any thing separate?

The cornerstone question that no one entertains answering is indeed if we're created in a god's image, then who's image are they created in?

As is pointed out ad nauseam by creationists, if you cannot create something from nothing through natural random processes, then that something MUST have a hand in it's creation willfully, as well.
That directly conflicts with the tired ex deus machina argument handicap of a god always existing, and thus not having been created by another being themselves is an incorrect assumption by creationists' own argument game rules, because as with everything else in this known universe and beyond, he or she can not have been there without it's own intelligent, willful creator.

IMO, if one cannot approach the "gods of the gods" possibility without that handicap giving them a self-perceived auto-win in the debate already, then they're not yet ready to debate anything at all.

originally posted by: Nyiah
The cornerstone question that no one entertains answering is indeed if we're created in a god's image, then who's image are they created in?

Who's image is who created in? Do you mean what image is God created in?

God is simply the entire image.....what is actually appearing to happen is all there is.

It is a mystery that can never be solved because there is no thing separate to solve it.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Nyiah
The cornerstone question that no one entertains answering is indeed if we're created in a god's image, then who's image are they created in?

Who's image is who created in? Do you mean what image is God created in?

God is simply the entire image.....what is actually appearing to happen is all there is.

It is a mystery that can never be solved because there is no thing separate to solve it.

That's a handicap answer. You can do better than that

It's ok to step outside the confines of the box religions limit people to in this regard and ponder something deeper than just "always been there". That answer most certainly exists & is taught to followers to prevent further discussion.

For the sake of this debate, a god as presented in any religious text is most certainly an intelligent being, and it most certainly exists. If it created us, then it does exist as everything else does, without debate, yes?
Again, if we cannot exist without having been willfully, intelligently created, then by the same law applied to anything that exists anywhere in this existence and beyond it, a god had to have been created also. The religious rely heavily on insisting no things came about randomly, and definitely not from nothing at all. The lynchpin of the belief is a hand is always involved somewhere and at some point.
Thus, for higher beings that exist, they too were not random and did not come from nothing.

So who created them? Would it not be possible gods are merely the older, earlier model version of intelligent life created by others, plodding along as we do, just existing differently?

a reply to: Nyiah

This is not about religion.... just forget religion for a bit and examine what's actually going on...

I am not speaking about 'a' god or gods plural.... I am speaking about non separation...... all that is.....the one.

What is happening is happening.

The word 'God' means no thing separate.... all one in Christ.

a reply to: Nyiah

Ok let's say God was created..... Then who or what created God?
And then what created that which created God?
And then......... so on and so forth.

There is an amazing book called:
'This Is God: An Expression of Non-Separation' for sale on Amazon that I highly recommend.
Read the reviews.

a reply to: Nyiah

Were 'you' created?

No thing was ever created...thoughts make believe.

Concepts arise and subside but they are not things.

originally posted by: Nyiah
The cornerstone question that no one entertains answering is indeed if we're created in a god's image, then who's image are they created in?

Hi Nyiah,

There's only one God, not plural, other gods don't exist. And we are created in one of the manifestations of God, i.e. human like, with a human body. I mean external appearance only.
There's other manifestations of the one God, that don't resemble human appearance at all. And one of them is a timeless and formless one. There could be others as well, which I'm not aware of.

As is pointed out ad nauseam by creationists, if you cannot create something from nothing through natural random processes, then that something MUST have a hand in it's creation willfully, as well.
That directly conflicts with the tired ex deus machina argument handicap of a god always existing, and thus not having been created by another being themselves is an incorrect assumption by creationists' own argument game rules, because as with everything else in this known universe and beyond, he or she can not have been there without it's own intelligent, willful creator.

The fallacy here is that given that something is created, then also The Creator is created. God is not something, He is the Creator of things.
Again, God is timeless, formless (one of his manifestations), He is the Creator, the Prime Source, without Himself being created, otherwise you're gonna make the same mistake, i.e. what was before the origin, and this is a very simplistic reasoning that leads into mistakes.
I'm very aware that understanding this concept of timeless and formless is highly difficult, I cannot fully grasp it either, but I can approach it somehow.

All in all one has to tread very carefully into these subjects, because these are very difficult and complicated ones, besides our limitations of the language and of our capacities as well. Otherwise one resembles someone from the street that wants to explain how a rocket is made and works in all detail. It takes time, the right approach and divine help when understanding the Holy God and His creations.