THE ABORTION AGENDA: Its Benefactors & What You Don’t Know

The 1973 Supreme Court case Doe v. Bolton, which was decided the same day as Roe v. Wade, determined that what was “necessary to protect life or health of the mother” is for the physician to decide based on factors like “physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman’s age--relevant to the wellbeing of the patient.”

How many times does the law need to be quoted? How many times do posters have to explain what the law says regarding "health of the mother".

Is there a reason NY has chosen ambiguity over complete clarification? There is a reason it does not narrow it to the physical health of the mother or some disease that has manifested. They left a wide open berth for the practitioner to use his/her own discretion.

originally posted by: Grambler
Yes, an 8 week abortion is much different than a 32 week one

I find it incredible you don’t think so

Not the point of gestation but the reason for the abortion?

What makes it disgusting and barbaric, the time or the fact that she will chose abortion because she doesn't want to raise a baby alone?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Grambler
Yes, an 8 week abortion is much different than a 32 week one

I find it incredible you don’t think so

Not the point of gestation but the reason for the abortion?

What makes it disgusting and barbaric, the time or the fact that she will chose abortion because she doesn't want to raise a baby alone?

The time makes it barbaric

The life is viable in one scenario, not in the other

To abort at 8 months or beyond for such a selfish reason when things like adoption exist is barbaric

Making that decision at 8 weeks before high brain function of the fetus is not

a reply to: Grambler

If a woman gets pregnant and is left in the dust by someone, or is raped, or comes into a situation where she needs to make that decision, should she turn to the illegal routes, or to the inclusive routes to help her through the process? The legal way.

These laws are more inclusive, and will ultimately show a decline in illegal abortions. The old laws were intimidating and exclusive.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Grambler

If a woman gets pregnant and is left in the dust by someone, or is raped, or comes into a situation where she needs to make that decision, should she turn to the illegal routes, or to the inclusive routes to help her through the process? The legal way.

These laws are more inclusive, and will ultimately show a decline in illegal abortions. The old laws were intimidating and exclusive.

Now I am confused

So you are ok with abortions legal n the third trimester of because a woman doesn’t want to raise a kid alone

Why can’t people just be clear with these issues?

Ok then we disagree

I find the idea of killing third trimester babies for non medical emergencies reasons to be barbaric and disgusting

The idea this needs to be legal or the woman would get it done illegally is a terrible argument In my opinion

That cinsideroshould not be evaluated when we are talking about killing a 28 week viable baby

a reply to: Grambler

Interesting. The fetus inside a healthy woman is also viable, not autonomous but definitely viable and the basis for the decision is the same so, IMO, both situations are similar.

a reply to: strongfp

If a woman is raped, she knows it immediately. She doesn't suddenly realize she has been raped when she is 8 mos. pregnant.

If she is "left in the dust" by someone she had sex with, and she is past 24 weeks, she should carry the child to term then either keep it, love it, rear it, or give it up for adoption. IMO, abortion is not an option, but I realize that is an issue that can't be settled, so, past 24 weeks, the baby should be safe from termination.

a reply to: daskakik

It’s great to have honesty

I think many pro choice people feel as you do but won’t admit it

So the morning after pill is basically (or is it just an 8 week abortion?) ethically the same as aborting while in labor

I find that barbaric and disgusting beyond belief

But I welcome your honesty

a reply to: Grambler

You're thinking to literal here... Which makes me believe you haven't met someone who has had an abortion. Or even many female influences at all to be honest, and if you do, they are either religious beyond belief or are just strange. Even the most conservative females I have known agree with abortion to a certain extent.

Maybe you should culture yourself a little and think outside the box here and put yourself into other peoples shoes, the world isn't black and white as you are portraying here.

Listen, I'm not for someone aborting an infant just because they don't want it. But I also know if that sort of situation happened in late pregnancy it either A doesn't get to that point, or B the mother has already made the decision to give it up for adoption, and C, D, E, F, G, etc, etc. are usually medical professionals saying you can do this or that, and Y and Z are either abortion or the criminal way.

That's just life. So stop trying to fight it.

a reply to: queenofswords

No you're right.

But if someone is raped or someone leaves them in the dust they can still decide to keep the child, but what if something happens after 24 weeks? That's what this NY law is addressing.

a reply to: strongfp

what if something happens after 24 weeks?

Like what?

a reply to: queenofswords

Unborn babies that show symptoms of becoming stillborn? It happens you know, a lot.

a reply to: strongfp

Your implications of who I know are incorrect

I support early term abortions

I know women who have had abortions

I don’t know one who supports allowing women to abort for non serious medical reasons in the third trimester

Your claim that by being against this law, I must not know reasonable women is absurd

I showed bass on the court definition of what a pregnant women health is defined as in late term abortions that this law makes third trimester abortions legal for every woman, as every woman has things like emotional and neonatal health impaired by pregnancy

To me that is barbaric and grotesque

I believe most people are moderate in abortion

Pro choice, but limited to early terms

I find it odd that you think opposition to late term abortions means I only hang out with religious women

In fact, I could turn that on you and say the fact you would think average women wouldn’t be opposed to that to mean you only hang out with extreme women

But I won’t do that, because it is irrelevant

Third term abortions for non medical reasons are disgusting

This law makes them more likely. I am against that

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: queenofswords

Unborn babies that show symptoms of becoming stillborn? It happens you know, a lot.

Yes, they could have wrote a law saying non viable fetuses could be aborted in the third trimester

The chose to widely expand the scope of legal third trimester abortions far beyond that

originally posted by: Grambler
So the morning after pill is basically (or is it just an 8 week abortion?) ethically the same as aborting while in labor

I think the morning after pill is just a large single dose of the hormone used in birth control pills. It can prevent ovulation and interfere with fertilization or keep the fertilized egg from attaching to the womb.

The first two are not forming a viable human and the third is borderline so I'm going to go with no, they are not the same as an abortion at any point.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that an abortion at 8 weeks is the same as a partial birth abortion. I meant that based on the viability of the fetus would make them the same. Now the autonomy of a baby at term and that of an 8 week old fetus makes them different.

Based on the pro-life idea that it is murder at any point after conception would make an 8 week abortion for selfish reasons the same as one at term as well.

a reply to: daskakik

Yes I like most people do not fall on to either extreme

That on the right of life at conception

That in the left of abortions even while one labor

It appears you in the left extreme

I appreciate your honesty, though I find the position barbaric and disgusting

a reply to: Grambler

Just had to try and put me in a box, huh?

I'm not on either extreme. I'm not even on any part of the spectrum. I'm outside looking in.

The people at the extremes are obviously extreme but the people in the center have this weird balancing act going on.

That is why the term viable made me say that a healthy fetus in a healthy woman at 8 weeks is also viable. I mean the majority of times they will reach term and be born so why would killing it at 8 weeks be fine?

You also mentioned the higher brain which makes me think that much of what you see wrong has to do with the suffering of the late term fetus being aborted and perhaps reaching that point of autonomy, even if it needs a little help from modern medicine.

originally posted by: daskakik

That is why the term viable made me say that a healthy fetus in a healthy woman at 8 weeks is also viable. I mean the majority of times they will reach term and be born so why would killing it at 8 weeks be fine?

Because up to 21 weeks the fetus even a healthy fetus survives totally at the

behest of the carrier/mother trying to transplamt the fetus or incubating it will

not work.

Therefor up to 21 weeks the mother is the determinator of life and death of a fetus.

a reply to: eletheia

Sure, that is why I noted the difference between viable and autonomous.

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
Maybe if individuals got to select how they live this "agenda" conspiracy nonsense could die

instead you moralists, rightists, and religious decide you can tell people what they should do with their individual self

These laws are allowing the murder of newborns... These babies are already outside of the woman's womb... Not to mention that at late third trimester the woman has to bear the child because it is too big already... But still such women decide to murder their own children.

People without morals are the same people who become murderers, and don't care about others but only about yourselves...