My new way of thinking about God

a reply to: Raggedyman

We are all in that relationship.

originally posted by: whereislogic

Stay ignorant, stay agnostic, ...

And thus asleep to the reality that one is a slave to his system of things, having their thinking and behaviour molded by it and him. Since Satan is "the god of this system of things" (2 Cor 4:4) and the behavioural and thinking patterns he promotes through it is what enslaves people and keeps them in the dark, ignorant and asleep, sometimes even thinking that 'ignorance is bliss' (or the openminded enlightened approach regarding the promotion of the earlier quoted agnostic way of thinking from Vilenkin for example, and all its variations; darkness being presented as light or wisdom as per Isaiah 5:20,21).

John 8:31-34:

31 Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring* [Lit., “seed.”] and never have been slaves to anyone. How is it you say, ‘You will become free’?” 34 Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to you, every doer of sin is a slave of sin.

Might help you understand the earlier statement about the truth setting one free. Oh, "they" in verse 33 is referring to other Jews than the "Jews" mentioned in verse 31, both types were in the same crowd (in verse 33 the Pharisees are talking, prominent religious educators and leaders in Israel).

Verse 38-47

38 I speak the things I have seen while with my Father, but you do the things you have heard from your father.” 39 In answer they said to him: “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them: “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works of Abraham. 40 But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You are doing the works of your father.” They said to him: “We were not born from immorality; we have one Father, God.”

42 Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

originally posted by: gallop
a reply to: dfnj2015
God is not external. it is you. That essence of you when you were born, that guiding voice, that inner thing.. your conscious.

God is you; God is me expressing Itself as tiny indiviualations of Itself and I am SICK OF IT. I just want the gameplay to stop.

God is beyond logic and beyond feelings. God is love. The opposite is hate a Rejection of God. How long can we reject God? For ever.

originally posted by: yogibear999
a reply to: Raggedyman

We are all in that relationship.

How do you figure.
If people on this very website won’t acknowledge God and if they do they say they don’t want Him, but you say God will force a relationship
We are all in that relationship

Ask on ats if people want a relationship with God and see the response.
Many don’t want God or any god but you think a God would force a relationship, is that love

Many are not in that relationship unless you believe something different from the Judeo Christian theology I was basing my comment on

originally posted by: apydomis
God is beyond logic and beyond feelings.

Thanks for providing us with another example or way of phrasing or expressing the agnostic philosophies of vagueness (incl. South Park's agnostic code) for which I gave a couple of examples before which were (wherever you see a / I'm using synonyms as reminders to counter these various philososophies and ways of thinking about truth, or any reality, especially the realities/truths/facts/certainties related to God):

- "there is no such thing as absolute certainty in science"
- cynically posing the question: "What is truth", without really being interested in an answer because one perhaps views "truth as too elusive to grasp" (a "disdainful attitude toward truth")
- truth not being absolute/certain/factual but relative
- "there really is no way to determin what is truth"

Of course you already took it one step further and applied these ways of thinking to the subject of God and without really spelling out the underlying way of thinking that leads one to say that "God is beyond logic"* (as if you can't make sense of it anyway, so why bother, as explained before in the South Park video in a slghtly different manner, i.e. it's pointless trying to apply logic in any sort of logical pathway trying to figure out things that are true/certain/absolute/factual/correct, without error about God. Stay ignorant, stay agnostic and freely use your imagination wherever and whenever you feel like it, do not even try to tell the difference between truths and falsehoods, between facts and fiction; that is what the system teaches, promotes and encourages). *: that statement also has some relations to what the OP referred to as "Apophatic theology", its wikipedia page mentions the phrase: "...to speak only in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God." (so it remains a bit of a vague approach to the subject if it's used exclusively)

Thinking according to the pattern of "this system of things" ( Cor 4:4). I prefer to encourage another way of thinking and practice (training one's mind) as described at Hebrews 5:14:

But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

Synonyms for right and wrong are "true/absolute/certain/correct, without error" and "false/incorrect". Here's a useful tool for practice and training your "powers of discernment" (i.e. your thinking ability to tell right from wrong, truth from a falsehood, fact from fiction or unverified philosophies and views that are falsely called "science/knowledge" as described at 1 Tim 6:20):

Real science, knowledge of realities compared to unverified philosophies and stories

Here's a funny way of depicting the behavioural thinking patterns of those who also often promote the various agnostic philosophies of vagueness with one minor difference (which I will add below the video to be read at the end of the title of the video as one sentence):

...that is inconvenient (especially "established facts" that are inconvenient for what one wants to believe/think or promote). Propagandists that influence how people think tend to sift the facts, exploiting the useful ones and concealing the others. They also distort and twist facts, specializing in lies and half-truths. This behaviour gets picked up by those affected by them (see text under my accountname about 'we are what we eat' and this being applicable to food for both the body and the mind). Satan being the most succesful propagandist out there with the most experience in influencing the masses (thousands of years experience with humanity, even more with other intelligent creatures such as angels).

The Encyclopaedia Britannica on inductive reasoning:

"When a person uses a number of established facts to draw a general conclusion, he uses inductive reasoning. THIS IS THE KIND OF LOGIC NORMALLY USED IN THE SCIENCES. ..."

From Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica by Isaac Newton:

“Rule I. We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances.
...
Rule IV. In experimental philosophy we are to look upon propositions collected by general induction from phenomena as accurately or very nearly true, notwithstanding any contrary hypotheses that may be imagined, 'till such time as other phenomena occur, by which they may either be made more accurate, or liable to exceptions,

This rule we must follow, that the argument of induction may not be evaded by hypotheses.”

“As in Mathematicks, so in Natural Philosophy, the Investigation of difficult Things by the Method of Analysis, ought ever to precede the Method of Composition. This Analysis consists in making Experiments and Observations, and in drawing general Conclusions from them by Induction, and admitting of no Objections against the Conclusions, but such as are taken from Experiments, or other certain Truths. For Hypotheses are not to be regarded in experimental Philosophy.”

Is God a Mystery? Awake!—1992

“What is a mystery? Generally speaking, a mystery is a truth that is naturally impossible to understand or prove. . . . What is a religious mystery? It is one of God’s truths that we are obliged to believe, although we can neither understand it nor prove it. What are the main religious mysteries? These are the mysteries of the most Holy Trinity, the Incarnation, and the Redemption.”​—Abrégé de l’exposition de la doctrine chrétienne, 1901 (Abridged Explanation of Christian Doctrine)

THE above is how a book written at the beginning of the 20th century summarized the view of the Roman Catholic Church regarding mysteries. Furthermore, the recently published Guide des difficultés de la foi catholique (Guide to Difficulties of the Catholic Faith, 1989) shows that such doctrinal points still are of interest by stating: “It is not just through a personal attraction for obscure realities that a Christian admits the existence of a certain number of mysteries in his religious Creed. If he believes in them, it is purely on the basis of God’s Word.” But what does “God’s Word” say? Is God a mystery?

Can We Know Everything About God?

The Bible does give us many details about God as a Person, about his qualities and about how he deals with mankind. But it also explains that his wisdom and intelligence are beyond human understanding. Thus, the prophet Isaiah says that God’s ways and thoughts are much higher than those of man.​—Isaiah 55:8, 9.

The impossibility of knowing every single thing about God should not surprise us. For example, even though our knowledge of the universe is constantly increasing, scientists admit that they will probably never truly get to the bottom of the mysteries of the infinitely small or the infinitely large. So how could any creature know completely the depth of God’s wisdom, he who is the Creator? Job confessed to Jehovah: “I was not understanding things too wonderful for me, which I do not know.” (Job 42:3; compare Romans 11:33.) Thus, full knowledge of God is, in some respects, beyond our limited understanding. However, the doctrines of many churches go beyond the limits of these simple observations.
...

a reply to: apydomis
A little more from Isaac Newton on how he applied inductive reasoning to his scientific research and attempts to discover the facts/truths/certainties about the reality around him. To gain knowledge/science about reality. Figuring things out, in particular concerning the subject of God in the quotation below.

... the main business of this science is to argue from phenomena, without feigning hypotheses, and to deduce causes from effects, till we come to the very First Cause; which certainly is not mechanical: and not only to unfold the mechanism of the world, but chiefly to resolve these and such like questions. ... Whence is it that nature doth nothing in vain, and whence arises all that order and beauty, which we see in the world? ... How came the bodies of animals to be contrived with so much art? and for what ends were their several parts? was the eye contrived without skill in optics, and the ear without knowledge of sounds? ... And these things being rightly dispatched, does it not appear from phenomena, that there is a Being incorporeal, living, intelligent, ... who ... sees the things themselves intimately, and thoroughly perceives them, and comprehends them wholly ...; and though every true step made in this philosophy bring us not immediately to the knowledge of the First Cause, yet it brings us nearer to it, and on that account is to be highly valued?

- Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: dfnj2015

The best way of thinking about god is not to bother. Look within instead.

1. Who am I? No one.
2. Why am I here? You’re not.

There's Baldrick chipping in (see video entitled "deny everything"). Also note the encouragement "not to bother" "thinking about god". For which I went into detail about motive and purpose of such encouragements related to the concept of keeping people in the dark, ignorant and agnostic. Someone out there doesn't want you to figure out some key things about God and his purposes for mankind and the earth (related to the subject of a resurrection followed by "everlasting life"). He much prefers to drag you down with him into "everlasting destruction" (non-existence, not eternal physical torment, but that's another subject).

Ah well, while I'm at it, a little off-topic but:

originally posted by: InwardDiver
a reply to: surfer_soul

Why should he look within when you already gave him the answers?

Are these the answers you found within yourself, or did someone else give them to you?

Because you have to experience something for yourself to have understanding. Otherwise you just have information.

Both, because information is meaningless without comprehension.

a reply to: whereislogic

I suggested not to bother thinking about god because it is beyond our comprehension to grasp fully. That doesn’t mean we can’t grasp our spiritual nature or achieve a wisdom beyond material knowledge.


As you brought it up what do you think gods purpose for mankind is? Why do you think there are those that wish to suppress that information and what are their motives?

a reply to: Raggedyman

I am guessing your faith is based on what you don’t believe

Who said I had faith?

Likewise I guess your definition of Omniscience is a moving target.

for example....this

God can’t know everything if we have choices, yes He knows the outcome but not our decision

That is contradictory on the face of it; even in the NT its stated that god knows whats in mens hearts.

a reply to: whereislogic

- "there is no such thing as absolute certainty in science" - cynically posing the question: "What is truth", without really being interested in an answer because one perhaps views "truth as too elusive to grasp" (a "disdainful attitude toward truth") - truth not being absolute/certain/factual but relative - "there really is no way to determin what is truth"

www.jwfacts.com...

Changed Dates :: Failed Predictions

This section covers some of the lesser known failed predictions and changed date doctrine of the Watchtower Society. For the more important dates see the pages on 1914, 1925, 1975. Many of the following quotes are from the Watchtower Society's Studies in the Scriptures Series. Scanned copies of these books can be downloaded for free from jehovah.net.au.

Of these above dates only 1914 is still considered significant, and even then, mostly for different reasons than originally prescribed. Though part of Watchtower lore for 60 years, most current Jehovah's Witnesses are unaware of their significance and that each one failed to eventuate as predicted. Each time the Watchtower has predicted an occurrence, it has not eventuated as foretold, a 100% failure rate.

Does this inspire confidence in Watchtower interpretation? Jehovah's Witnesses promoted these falsehoods in the past, and continue to zealously advocate current doctrine as unfailing truths.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Raggedyman

I am guessing your faith is based on what you don’t believe

Who said I had faith?

Likewise I guess your definition of Omniscience is a moving target.

for example....this

God can’t know everything if we have choices, yes He knows the outcome but not our decision

That is contradictory on the face of it; even in the NT its stated that god knows whats in mens hearts.

Crikey Mikey are you for real?

Who said you had faith? Really, did you read what i wrote or was that some sort of failed comical come back, trying to appear smarter than you are😊

God knows a mans heart but does that mean God knows a mans decissions, can you explain your reasoning, your theology about your opinion or did someone tell you what to think

Gods sovereign like a parent but a parent will allow a child to make decissions, part of growing and learning, good decissions or bad, that's how we learn.

Your theology about a God you don't believe in is based on what you have been told by whoever you chose to listen to, just means you are a monkey copying other monkeys.
No capacity to think for yourself

a reply to: dfnj2015

You cannot have God AND nonduality...... non dual means not two.
What is.... is all there is....
The complete, whole (no separation) is God....

What is the one 'thing' that cannot be denied?

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: whereislogic
I suggested not to bother thinking about god because it is beyond our comprehension to grasp fully. That doesn’t mean we can’t grasp our spiritual nature or achieve a wisdom beyond material knowledge.

I can grasp it and know exactly what is going on here regarding the reason for your existance.

surfer_soul As you brought it up what do you think gods purpose for mankind is? Why do you think there are those that wish to suppress that information and what are their motives?

God divided itself into parts that could be individualized in the material realm. Its purpose is to know itself as a manefested human, plant, or animal.

a reply to: surfer_soul
Well, I don't want to make a long comment again, so everything can be found here:

What Is God’s Purpose for the Earth and Mankind? | Bible Teach

Or here:

What Is God’s Purpose for Mankind?

And here's the cause why there are people being kept in the dark concerning these subjects:

2 Corinthians 4:4

4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

Revelation 12:9

9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.