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Video Extreme abortion activist defends killing babies after born

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posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: TinySickTears
I will borrow projectvxn's words to answer your question.


originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: UKTruth

Some haven't gotten the memo about what doesn't happen when you have 'two wrongs'.


There are always other options, and science has progressed enough to figure them out instead of relying on murder.




posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Grambler

I've already answered this. In short, red tape and the legal quagmire for doctors, hospitals and insurance companies. In emergency situations, time is of the essence.




There should be red tape involved before making a decision to snuff out a life.

edit on 1/2/2019 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: TinySickTears
I will borrow projectvxn's words to answer your question.


originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: UKTruth

Some haven't gotten the memo about what doesn't happen when you have 'two wrongs'.


There are always other options, and science has progressed enough to figure them out instead of relying on murder.


Let's just call it like it is and stop pandering to the murderers excuses.
They LIKE it.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Grambler




If you are right that doctors will only apply this law when the woman is severely likely to be mentally or physically hurt, then the current law would suffice just fine, which already allowed doctors to make that judgement.


I've already answered this. In short, red tape and the legal quagmire for doctors, hospitals and insurance companies. In emergency situations, time is of the essence.



And again, I already posted studies that showed as high as 90% of late term abortions were for non medical reasons.


What does that mean in your mind? What makes you want to second guess and scrutinize a doctor's reason for prescribing a late term abortion?

To me, it means that mental health is still misunderstood and not considered a medical issue to many. To me it means that if a fetus has been discovered to have catastrophic abnormalities, as long as no one is dying, right now, it's not a "medical" issue or a valid reason to prescribe and abortion.




SO you just write off the stats as clearly they mean medical issues, but not the ones you are discussing?

The 9 % for medical rteasons it says were "Only 9.4 percent of late abortions at clinics that responded to the U.S. News survey were done for medical reasons, either to protect the mother’s health(a rare situation) or, more commonly, because of fetal defects such as spina bifida and Down’s syndrome"

So they include serious medical reasons in these numbers.

SO on one hand you want us to just trust doctors judgements, but on the other hand you think they are not capable of knowing what a medical reason for an abortion is?

Theb excuses are becoming staggering.



I repeat

THE CURRENT LAW ALLOWS FOR WOMENS HEALTH BEING SEVERELY HARMED OR FETAL NON VIABILITY TO BE A REASON FOR THIRD TERM ABORTIONS.

Changing that law to apply to all women just to avoid red tape is not a valid reason.

And the fact we know that doctors prescribe many late abortions for non medical reasons proves this would be used exactly as the law intended.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Grambler

I've already answered this. In short, red tape and the legal quagmire for doctors, hospitals and insurance companies. In emergency situations, time is of the essence.




There should be red tape involved before making a decision to snuff out a life.


I cant believe "red tape" was given as an excuse.

Imagine this.

"I would like to change the law to say that doctors can give out as much opioid painkillers as they want if a patient is in any mental or physical pain.

I know that know doctors would abuse this, and it will avoid red tape."

Its sureeal.

Even when I provide evidence that doctors recommend non medical late term abortions all the time, that is brushed off as "Well clearly the doctors were wrong, and their definition of non medical actually means medical"

Even when the studies show that the top reason given by women who got late term abortions were


In 2003, Katha Pollitt, who is pro-choice, wrote an article for The Nation discussing late-term abortion. She gave the three most common reasons why women had these abortions (1):

71% didn’t realize they were pregnant

48% had difficulty making arrangements

33% were afraid of telling parents or partner


www.liveaction.org...

we still have to pretend women and doctors would only chose late term abortions for serious medical reasons, and remove laws that say that because "red tape"



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

I have never met one woman who couldnt say their pregnancy impaired their mental and or physical health.



Well then you should be relieved that it is not the woman's opinion that matters, it is the Doctor who must diagnose and officially certify it at risk of lawsuit and consequence of desertification to practice medicine.



The physician certifies and so enter enters in the hospital record of the woman, that in their the physician's medical opinion, based upon their the physician's best clinical judgment, the continuation of the pregnancy is likely to result in the death of the woman or impair the mental or physical health of the woman.



Ok and the doctor must prove that a woman is physically or mentally impaired by the pregnancy.

Again, every woman every pregnant has been mentally and physically impaired by the pregnancy.



The mental or physical consequences of the state of pregnancy already exist in the third trimester.

The only difference in medical status between third-trimester and birth is the act of natural birth or Cesarean.

Aborting the pregnancy comes with it's own medical risk.

By this narrow law, the change in medical status (abortion vs. delivery) is what is weighed and whether that has significant life threatening or debilitating consequences. It does not erase her medical state that she begins with.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth


Even one is unacceptable. If this can happens in USA, women's lives are at risk.


The problem? Late-term abortion is highly restricted in the state of Utah, so she had to wait for 12 hours—lying on the floor of the hospital, sobbing—as a healthcare corporation's ethics committee decided whether her case justified an abortion. Eventually, they said it did, and Draper went through with a late-term abortion—what she called "the worst moment of her life."

www.self.com...

Thankfully, this woman lived to tell her story. Make it hard for women to get the care they need in emergency situations, and women will die. When women don't have access to safe and affordable abortions, they die.

47,000 Women Die Each Year From Unsafe Abortions thinkprogress.org...

edit on 1-2-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

I have never met one woman who couldnt say their pregnancy impaired their mental and or physical health.



Well then you should be relieved that it is not the woman's opinion that matters, it is the Doctor who must diagnose and officially certify it at risk of lawsuit and consequence of desertification to practice medicine.



The physician certifies and so enter enters in the hospital record of the woman, that in their the physician's medical opinion, based upon their the physician's best clinical judgment, the continuation of the pregnancy is likely to result in the death of the woman or impair the mental or physical health of the woman.



Ok and the doctor must prove that a woman is physically or mentally impaired by the pregnancy.

Again, every woman every pregnant has been mentally and physically impaired by the pregnancy.



The mental or physical consequences of the state of pregnancy already exist in the third trimester.

The only difference in medical status between third-trimester and birth is the act of natural birth or Cesarean.

Aborting the pregnancy comes with it's own medical risk.

By this narrow law, the change in medical status (abortion vs. delivery) is what is weighed and whether that has significant life threatening or debilitating consequences. It does not erase her medical state that she begins with.





Nonetheless the text of the proposed law says


the continuation of the pregnancy is likely to result in the death of the woman or impair the mental or physical health of the woman.


So a woman is 8 and a half months pregnant.

She would be totally correct and honest to say that continuing her pregnancy one more day would impair her physical health (she is in pain, cant exert physical energy she otherwise would be able to not being pregnant) and mental health (she is emotional, moody, depressed etc. that she wouldnt be if not pregnant).

Thus she is legally eligible for a third trimester abortion under this law, as would every pregnant woman ever.

Hence the law effectually makes all third trimester abortions legal.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

And this woman would have been eligible to receive an abortion under the current virginia law.

Funny though that you say even one womans life lost is unacceptable, but have no problem making it so healthy moms can abort health 8 to nine month old babies.

If the new law led to even one situation such as I mention above and a healthy mom aborting a healthy baby, wouldnt that be unacceptable as well?

Or doesnt the babies life matter?



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

And lets look at your source for your number.


According to the Guttmacher Institute, complications from unsafe abortions in the developing world contribute to 47,000 preventable deaths each year


thinkprogress.org...

Ok thats worldwide, not the US.

So this is hardly an example of needing to change the law to stop "red tape"

Meanwhile, ironically you cite the Guttmacher institute, so clearly you find them credible.

Lets see what else they say.


A study in 2006 in Perspectives of Sexual and Reproductive Health, a publication of the Alan Guttmacher institute, which has been affiliated with Planned Parenthood throughout its history, conducted a study of hundreds of women who had second-trimester abortions (the second trimester ends at 27 weeks). It came up with the following results:

68% had no pregnancy symptoms

58% Didn’t confirm the pregnancy until the second trimester

45% had trouble finding abortion provider

37% unsure of date of last menstrual period

30% had difficulty deciding on abortion

Believe it or not, the study sample did not contain a single case of abortion for health reasons.


www.liveaction.org...

But wait!

I thought you said these people dont know enough about abortions to know what a "non medical reason" was?

So they are credible when you are citing them talking about worldwide unsafe abortions, but not when discussing reasons for late abortions in the US?



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Even one is unacceptable?

So a single case of a doctor wrongly determining that a pregnancy is life threatening to the mother and aborting a viable baby is also unacceptable, of course. Right? Right?

We're not talking about emergency sitautions anyway - you've been repeatedly told that the change to the law means it can be interpreted as NON life threatening health issues for the mother.

You are obfuscating, when all you really need to do is admit that you are in favour or murdering viable babies when the mothers life is not at risk.



edit on 1/2/2019 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: Drucifer

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Grambler

Grambler.

Would the new law allow a woman for whatever reason to tell the doctor "I'm over it, end it"?

Yes or no.


Bottom line YES she can just say 'end it' and they can/will.


Source?

This is the 2nd time this week that you right-wingers have made me cringe with the fear-mongering stuff. First the removal of "so help you god" from the oath and your meltdown over that that was the equivalent to people screaming at the air when Trump was elected and now this. You guys are living up to those right-wing stereotypes pretty hard lately.

Grambler, just like I said to carewemust last night, I generally dig a lot of your posts and agree with you, but certainly not this time. I understand you're trying to build your youtube channel up and I just hope you don't rely on sensationalism to do so, because that's exactly what your OP was.

I can't add anything new that theantediluvian, narrator and CriticalStinker haven't already said, and quite well at that.


I see you didn't read the thread . The sources for all this can be found if you WANT TO FIND IT. That you're wanting to NOT believe the facts are on you 100%.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: Grambler




SO doctors can now legally say that any woman can legally get a third trimester abortion.


Not just the doctor, who enters his decision into the records and risks his own license. The law says the procedure must be performed in a licensed hospital, so the hospital is going to also have to sign off, as well as their insurance and the woman's insurance company too. Lord knows hospital procedures and stays are not cheap, so insurance companies are going to scrutinize the doctor's recommendation.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: Justoneman




Bottom line YES she can just say 'end it' and they can/will.


Please show me where this claim has been confirmed with sources in this thread.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 05:00 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Grambler




SO doctors can now legally say that any woman can legally get a third trimester abortion.


Not just the doctor, who enters his decision into the records and risks his own license. The law says the procedure must be performed in a licensed hospital, so the hospital is going to also have to sign off, as well as their insurance and the woman's insurance company too. Lord knows hospital procedures and stays are not cheap, so insurance companies are going to scrutinize the doctor's recommendation.



So now we need to rely on insurance companies to not allow doctors to provide what would be legal abortions for any woman who wants one in the third trimester?

Why dont we just leave the law stay that makes it only legal if its a huge risk to the woman.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth



We're not talking about emergency sitautions anyway -


I am. The law applies to emergency situations, does it not? In an emergency life or death situation, waiting 12 hours because of onerous red tape is too long.



the change to the law means it can be interpreted as NON life threatening health issues for the mother.


So? If a woman gets a tragic diagnosis that her fetus is seriously abnormal, but no one is dying right now, her mental health isn't a good enough reason? She should wait until the fetus goes into destress and she's in septic shock before an abortion should be performed.

Do you really think 3 doctors are required to decide whether or not this hypothetic woman's mental health risks cross the legal threshhold and merit an abortion? Her and her own doctor can't ferret it out?

edit on 1-2-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Justoneman




Bottom line YES she can just say 'end it' and they can/will.


Please show me where this claim has been confirmed with sources in this thread.


It has been shown in this thread that this law would have made it so every woman ever pregnant would have fit the criteria for a third trimester abortion.

Your interpretation is that doctors and insurance companies wouldnt act on that (which I feel the studies I posted disprove) does not change the fact that the text of the law means every woman pregnant would be legally allowed to have a third trimester abortion.



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: Grambler




So now we need to rely on insurance companies to not allow doctors to provide what would be legal abortions for any woman who wants one in the third trimester?


Insurance companies deny life saving medication and procedures everyday. If you don't think an insurance comapny would deny coverage for an unnecessary late term abortion of a healthy fetus, you're not living in the America I do.





edit on 1-2-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Little Betty ate a pound of aspirin
She got them from the shelf upon the wall
Betty's mommy wasn't there to save her
She didn't even hear her baby call

Dead babies, can't take care of themselves
Dead babies, can't take things off the shelf
Well we, didn't want you, anyway
Lalala-la, lalala-la, la la la

Daddy is an agrophile in Texas
Mommy's on the bar most every night
Little Betty's sleeping in the graveyard
Living there in burgundy and white

Dead babies, can't take care of themselves
Dead babies, can't take things off the shelf
Well we, didn't love you, anyway
Lalala-la, lalala-la, la la la

Goodbye, Little Betty
Goodbye, Little Betty
So long, Little Betty
So long, Little Betty
Betty, so long


That DEAD BABY Could be YOU.........



edit on 1-2-2019 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2019 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: Grambler




It has been shown in this thread that this law would have made it so every woman ever pregnant would have fit the criteria for a third trimester abortion.


No, it has not "been shown". Your persistent, hyperbolic and unsubstantiated arguments are not proof of anything.
edit on 1-2-2019 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



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