If MAGA is a symbol of hate...

originally posted by: Liquesence
Unfortunately, a large part of "MAGA" is selfishness, discrimination, and marginalization of minority groups (Hispanics, Muslims, LGTB*, etc) while stoking fear of "the other," the other being those groups.

That's the problem with MAGA.

It also implies that there was a formerly perfect America. This is not true. It was perfect for some groups, but having lived through those "golden eras" I can say that it wasn't good for everybody.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
The thing about MAGA is, you can't broadcast a selfish message and then advertise a selfless relationship. Anyone doing business with america has gotten the distinct impression that we care ONLY about our own welfare, even if it means stepping on everyone else.

I tend to agree -- no nation wants to deal with another if they're sure they're going to get the short end of the stick.

The world needs to act more like a united community instead of a dysfunctional family.

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: Plotus

My point, because it is subjective, just because "you" or someone else may have a vision of "Great America" other people have the experience and vision of a time of Native Genocide, War, Slavery etc

The "other people" who "experienced Native Genocide, War, Slavery etc" ---where are they? Please point me to any civilization on the face of the earth where these things have not impacted the population at some point in time?

If you wish to focus on the negative aspects of humanity, which you have shown by your posts is your only viewpoint, you are free to continue on your negative path. You are free to reap the benefits of being a Negative Nattering NayBob. That, my friend, is the beauty of the United States of America---you can be whatever your potential allows. If you can't see that beauty I'm truly sorry for you because no matter how much potential you have, it will never be realized until you get some balance in your life.

Perhaps if you actually studied some history you could gain a bit of perspective on how cultures develop. Take a look at Europe and it's history of invasion, conquest and wars for hundreds of years. Same with Africa and every culture there---war, native genocide and slavery. Do you think the Bantu migrations were all unicorns and rainbows when they were pushing out the native populations in southern and eastern Africa? Take a look at Asia and its history of war, native genocide and conquest.

You are the product of all this native genocide, war and slavery. My ancestors and your ancestors were the survivors of these plagues. Mine were a mix of slaves and slave holders, warriors and victims. I suspect yours were too if you reach back far enough into history. But it's the 21st century now and simply repeating that same mantra time after doesn't provide any help to anyone, doesn't make for forward movement in any way.

Both JFK and MLK were the products of a bigoted society. Both managed to survive and rise above the negativity and see the potential for good and for growth. They found a way to make us believe in our dreams. Were those men perfect human beings? No. They were flawed humans like the rest of us but they made us believe we could be better at being human.

I wonder what would happen if I wore a maga hat on top of a pink p**** hat?

It would probably look something like the end of Kingsmen.
💥

a reply to: Byrd

I tend to agree -- no nation wants to deal with another if they're sure they're going to get the short end of the stick.

That's why tariffs were implemented. We got tired of getting the short end of the stick. Now everyone wants to complain when we play by their rules.

It also implies that there was a formerly perfect America. This is not true. It was perfect for some groups, but having lived through those "golden eras" I can say that it wasn't good for everybody.

Here we go again trying to tie MAGA to the civil rights era. If you guys would've just listened instead of letting the MSM tell you what to think, you might have avoided this facepalm moment.

originally posted by: TzarChasm Anyone doing business with america has gotten the distinct impression that we care ONLY about our own welfare, even if it means stepping on everyone else.

As we spend 100s of billions in aid etc... Is this not the typical attitude of any country? China just launch for America's pleasure 3500 mile missile called the Guam killer...

The sad part is it didn't always related to the Orange one it once symbolized a much more Great man and a better era:

originally posted by: Byrd

I tend to agree -- no nation wants to deal with another if they're sure they're going to get the short end of the stick.

The world needs to act more like a united community instead of a dysfunctional family.

Seems the US has gotten the short end of the stick for a very long time and the rest of the world is OK with that. Has Trump suggested anything other than just wanting fair trade agreements?

BTW the world is not a family, never was, and will not be anytime in the near future. China would cut our throats tomorrow if they gained an advantage from it as would the EU and Russia, lets not be naïve...

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Liquesence
Unfortunately, a large part of "MAGA" is selfishness, discrimination, and marginalization of minority groups (Hispanics, Muslims, LGTB*, etc) while stoking fear of "the other," the other being those groups.

That's the problem with MAGA.

It also implies that there was a formerly perfect America. This is not true. It was perfect for some groups, but having lived through those "golden eras" I can say that it wasn't good for everybody.

"Great" does not mean "perfect," it simply means "great." There is plenty of room for improvement and correction of flaws withing considering something to be "great." Tom Brady is a great QB... yet he has thrown interceptions, incompletions, failed to win big games, and been dramatically imperfect many times. The Godfather was a great movie, but Sonny's death scene is ridiculously Hollywood with him receiving dozens of bullet wounds yet still being able to get out of his car only to be finally (mercifully) shot to death in another barrage of bullets... thus, it is imperfect. Thomas Jefferson was a great president and a brilliant mind, yet he allowed himself to get embroiled in a ridiculous pissing match with John Addams... he was a human being, thus totally imperfect.

The entire point of MAGA has never been the idea that America was, at some given point, "perfect." It has always been the point that, at some time in the not too distant past, this country was better than we currently are. The economy, the policies, the embracing of personal freedom buttressed by a demand for personal responsibility... GREAT, especially compared to the path we had been going down for the prior 20-30 years. Were the 50s difficult for some? Absolutely! Was the direction we were heading in prior to this president, a direction which sought to appease those who felt left behind in the 50s and 60s at the direct expense of those who achieved their American Dream, difficult for a much wider swath of Americans all for the direct benefit of the few? Again, absolutely!

When I think of "Make American Great Again" I think of a country which spent 2008-2016 with a leader who never let a single opportunity to criticize everything about this country which I love and to apologize many of the things which I considered virtues and accomplishments within this country... that wasn't American being great, that was America being piteous. The global apology tour, the attempt to change long standing institutions valued by the many to coddle the few, the direct criticism of American exceptionalism, the never ending self discountenance against the institution of traditional America... that was this country's low point and that was what MAGA was intended to pull us from the quagmire of.

originally posted by: Byrd


It also implies that there was a formerly perfect America. This is not true. It was perfect for some groups, but having lived through those "golden eras" I can say that it wasn't good for everybody.

I don't think he said "let's Make America Perfect Again" so no implications there outside what you feel...There is so much we could make better, was better in the past, but the left doesn't suggest make great again could be something like fixing our infrastructure that is full of crumpling bridges, they suggest "oh you mean it was great back when we had slavery". Trump's message from day one deals with things like bringing living wage jobs back home, fixing our infrastructure, fair trade, get out of wars, fix out crappy immigration system etc etc...never heard him say "bring slavery back" or "make white man all powerful" lol

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Byrd

I tend to agree -- no nation wants to deal with another if they're sure they're going to get the short end of the stick.

The world needs to act more like a united community instead of a dysfunctional family.

Seems the US has gotten the short end of the stick for a very long time and the rest of the world is OK with that. Has Trump suggested anything other than just wanting fair trade agreements?

According to idiot trump. The truth the USA has shaped and molded the world how We wanted since WW2. The prosperity we have had, the dominance we have shown is proof of this, but in trump you trust. We are the only superpower left as long as trump doesn't destroy what took decades to build.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Liquesence
Unfortunately, a large part of "MAGA" is selfishness, discrimination, and marginalization of minority groups (Hispanics, Muslims, LGTB*, etc) while stoking fear of "the other," the other being those groups.

That's the problem with MAGA.

It also implies that there was a formerly perfect America. This is not true. It was perfect for some groups, but having lived through those "golden eras" I can say that it wasn't good for everybody.

The hat doesn't say "Make America perfect again." Only those who wish to continue to stir dissension take that view. Only those who are under some delusion think humans can make a perfect world.

The vast majority of us think that we can do better as a society. We remember the dream of a world where "A rising tide lifts all boats" and "my children will be judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin." That was the era when the Civil Rights Act was passed, the Clean Water Act was passed and no, it was not a perfect world. It was no fun to have a fire hose turned on you if you were marching in a Civil Rights protest or an anti-war march. It was no fun to live under martial law in Nashville or Memphis in 1968 but we survived it and we learned from every adversity.

Even the Carter years were an education in economics when we went for our first house mortgage. Yeah, 14% interest was no picnic---not like the 4% today's first time home buyers are enjoying. See how that works! There are positives and negatives to all cultures at any given time but when you blind yourself to the positives and stubbornly cling to the negative ....the bitterness wins.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
We are the only superpower left as long as trump doesn't destroy what took decades to build.

Can you name one thing we took decades to build that Trump is on the verge of destroying? Trump is just another President, so guess what in 2 to 6 years there will be another, and another, and another.... I saw Obama screw up a lot in his 8 years, but I knew he would be replaced...

Just another instance of a slogan said in the past but only upset because its associated with trump.

Real derangement stuff.

Too patriotic when half the county now have greater ties and more family outside of America

originally posted by: continuousThunder

MAGA just seems to be one that, fair or not, has attracted a lot of attention as a rallying point for overt racists.

Well that's probably the dumbest thing I've read all day (I haven't been on any liberal/progressive/sjw boards yet). I like the hat, I like the logo, I like the meaning behind it, I like what trump is trying to do and I'm not racist, or homophobic and don't subscribe white supremacist crap.

I guess we should just use a wide brush and say progressive liberal ideology and HRC seem to be a rallying point for overt idiots that are incapable of critical thought or doing research?

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: TzarChasm
The thing about MAGA is, you can't broadcast a selfish message and then advertise a selfless relationship. Anyone doing business with america has gotten the distinct impression that we care ONLY about our own welfare, even if it means stepping on everyone else.

I tend to agree -- no nation wants to deal with another if they're sure they're going to get the short end of the stick.

The world needs to act more like a united community instead of a dysfunctional family.

All nations want the best deal for themselves. If we had a one world government and zones, each zone would want the best deal for itself and the one world government would be screwing all of us. What planet are you living on?

Trump is a nationalist, he's going to fight hard for the nation. Do you get it yet? What's the root word of nationalist? NATION. At least he can negotiate and do so from a position of power not like that bowing pansy-ass Obama. If they don't like the deal, US will do it itself, no biggie. That's the nice thing about being a nationalist, you only have a single goal, one priority, make a better nation.

Well... he seems to be doing his job and damn well.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: diggindirt

we still suffer from colonial genocide, the lands, plants, herbs, have been destroyed, taking over with industrialisation and corporate over comsumption, the fast-moving ecocide, the forced assimilation, we still suffer from all that, not to mention being tossed on Reservations, and the included stereotypical bigotry and discrimination we still face, and NOT from only white, or right, or "MAGA hats"

and my point still stands to regress back to a "great" part in "america" is a subjective act, it is an empty statement

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: TzarChasm
The thing about MAGA is, you can't broadcast a selfish message and then advertise a selfless relationship. Anyone doing business with america has gotten the distinct impression that we care ONLY about our own welfare, even if it means stepping on everyone else.

I tend to agree -- no nation wants to deal with another if they're sure they're going to get the short end of the stick.

The world needs to act more like a united community instead of a dysfunctional family.

All nations want the best deal for themselves. If we had a one world government and zones, each zone would want the best deal for itself and the one world government would be screwing all of us. What planet are you living on?

Trump is a nationalist, he's going to fight hard for the nation. Do you get it yet? What's the root word of nationalist? NATION. At least he can negotiate and do so from a position of power not like that bowing pansy-ass Obama. If they don't like the deal, US will do it itself, no biggie. That's the nice thing about being a nationalist, you only have a single goal, one priority, make a better nation.

Well... he seems to be doing his job and damn well.

Cheers - Dave

Oh yes, I get the idea of "nationalist." But the problem with a nationalist stance is that it doesn't offer anything to other nations. We don't want to negotiate with other countries with a nationalistic standpoint because we're pretty sure that the bargain that's offered isn't fair, but is rather skewed towards them.

It's not a winning proposition. We need resources from other countries and we need them to accept our goods into their markets. So that means some tit-for-tat in negotiations.

It also inspires others to form coalitions to eliminate their needs for whatever you're trying to sell them... or do you remember how OPEC (Saudi Arabia led coalition) jump-started the ethanol fuel and biofuel industry and the solar industry with their nationalistic attitude and high prices and caused a drop in the demand for oil world-wide?

I remember.

The world's countries need teamwork and cooperation and not to be a collection of nations that see each other as something to be conquered socially, economically, and resource-wise.

(lag) (doubleposted)