Teachers need a raise!

How qualified do you have to be to teach pre-teens how to put condoms on a banana? In the old days, it was "reading, writing, and arithmetic". Now it's "gay is ok" and talking about 57 genders and all kinds of other stupid crap. The kids can't read. Can't balance a checkbook or make change in their heads. I say teachers are failing students and need to have their pay cut. I would say fire them all and start over, but the teacher's unions won't allow that. If they can afford dues to the teacher's unions, they don't need anymore damned money.

a reply to: DarthMuerte

Your issue is with the public school system not the teachers.
Although my daughter has a sports marketing class and one of their class projects was to prep the football field for every home game.
She is also required to watch the superbowl next week and then discuss the game in class.

So is the teacher the problem or is it the school?

I say the school.

The Educational system is in need of a different way. What we are doing hasn't worked in elementary and high schools as evidenced by test results of our students. The scores are not improving much, if at all and are flat or decreasing more often than not.

Pay good teachers more, not pay all teachers more. Certain teachers should be compensated more that others based on their results they get with their students. Teachers that continually underperform should be like workers in any other field, they get replaced.

Just throwing more money at the situation hasn't worked, we need better ideas implemented.

I do taxes for quite a few retired educators, none of them are struggling in retirement. Most, if they maxxed out their retirement make the same if not more in retirement than when they were working. Most of the educators I know don't even need to dip into their retirement plans.

It's not like teachers don't know what they are getting into. If they make a career out of it, they end up rewarded pretty well compared to other jobs.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: DarthMuerte

Your issue is with the public school system not the teachers.
Although my daughter has a sports marketing class and one of their class projects was to prep the football field for every home game.
She is also required to watch the superbowl next week and then discuss the game in class.

So is the teacher the problem or is it the school?

I say the school.

Actually both. And the dept of education too. By every single metric, education in the US has deteriorated in quality since the dept of education was established under carter(iirc). [carter is specifically not capitalized as a mark of the lack of respect I feel for him. ] The vast majority of teachers are extremely left wing and support left wing candidates. The whole system is brainwashing our children to become socialists.

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: rickymouse

I do not think that a school teacher with twenty years in and a good pension should make more than a construction worker.

Why not? What is your definition of a "construction worker"

Well, a teacher with fifteen years or more makes around fifty five grand a year here and gets the summer off. If you were to figure it out on a full year job, that would be about twenty six bucks an hour all year long. But they only work about nine months to earn that.

A Iron minor here who works twelve months and works no overtime would make about sixty grand a year. A construction worker here making union wage would make around twenty six bucks an hour, Regular construction workers, comprising the majority of the people around here, make less than twenty bucks an hour. If you aren't getting the state scale on government jobs, usually someone with fifteen to twenty years experience is getting around twenty an hour.

Construction workers work in much worse conditions half the time than a school teacher has to work at. I knew some school teachers who would go work for cash with my masons during the summer too.

Now a teacher who has taught for say three years would be pretty good by that time, but is not getting the right pay because those with years of service get so much and their retirement income is so high. On top of that, cash strapped schools were not fully funding the retirement because teachers were demanding more pay, especially increased was the ones with many years, the young were supposed to wait. Never let school teachers or retired teachers be on the boards that approve teachers wage increases.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: rickymouse

I do not think that a school teacher with twenty years in and a good pension should make more than a construction worker.

Why not? What is your definition of a "construction worker"

Well, a teacher with fifteen years or more makes around fifty five grand a year here and gets the summer off. If you were to figure it out on a full year job, that would be about twenty six bucks an hour all year long. But they only work about nine months to earn that.

A Iron minor here who works twelve months and works no overtime would make about sixty grand a year. A construction worker here making union wage would make around twenty six bucks an hour, Regular construction workers, comprising the majority of the people around here, make less than twenty bucks an hour. If you aren't getting the state scale on government jobs, usually someone with fifteen to twenty years experience is getting around twenty an hour.

Construction workers work in much worse conditions half the time than a school teacher has to work at. I knew some school teachers who would go work for cash with my masons during the summer too.

Now a teacher who has taught for say three years would be pretty good by that time, but is not getting the right pay because those with years of service get so much and their retirement income is so high. On top of that, cash strapped schools were not fully funding the retirement because teachers were demanding more pay, especially increased was the ones with many years, the young were supposed to wait. Never let school teachers or retired teachers be on the boards that approve teachers wage increases.

When an iron miner leaves work for the day, they leave work at work and can relax all evening. When a teacher goes home for the evening, they still have hours of grading papers and planning lessons to do. Most teachers(including myself) I worked with/know average about 70 hours per week during the school year. The "whole summer off" argument is a non-starter as well. Yes, that's a nice perk, but it's not like teachers do nothing all summer. Summer school, additional training/certifications, etc. All jobs have perks. If people like that perk so much, why not become a teacher and enjoy having the perk?
Construction workers work in worse conditions, but, in line with one of the main "teachers are already paid plenty" arguments...they chose the job they're working. They could just go get a job with better working conditions.

a reply to: narrator

I will point out once again, I have never said teachers have it easy.
I just dont want to hear them bitch about their chosen profession and its drawbacks.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I wasn't responding to you? I was responding to rickymouse. I also never said that you said teachers have it easy. I just think most people that aren't directly involved with the profession will understand how much actually goes into a teaching career, and some of the posts on this thread are just reinforcing that belief.

I feel obligated to point out that everyone complains about their jobs unless someone was lucky enough to find a way to make their life's passion their profession, and even then, some days are going to suck, and everyone has the right to complain about it.

Why don't teachers have the right to complain about their jobs, but everyone else gets to?

I would find it hard to believe that you and yours NEVER complain about your jobs. Not calling you a liar by any means, just saying that everyone complains.
I mean, one of my best friends is a CFP, makes well over 6 figures, inherited the house he lives in so no mortgage, and he still complains about work/cost of living/etc. It's in everyone's nature to complain.

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: rickymouse

I do not think that a school teacher with twenty years in and a good pension should make more than a construction worker.

Why not? What is your definition of a "construction worker"

Well, a teacher with fifteen years or more makes around fifty five grand a year here and gets the summer off. If you were to figure it out on a full year job, that would be about twenty six bucks an hour all year long. But they only work about nine months to earn that.

A Iron minor here who works twelve months and works no overtime would make about sixty grand a year. A construction worker here making union wage would make around twenty six bucks an hour, Regular construction workers, comprising the majority of the people around here, make less than twenty bucks an hour. If you aren't getting the state scale on government jobs, usually someone with fifteen to twenty years experience is getting around twenty an hour.

Construction workers work in much worse conditions half the time than a school teacher has to work at. I knew some school teachers who would go work for cash with my masons during the summer too.

Now a teacher who has taught for say three years would be pretty good by that time, but is not getting the right pay because those with years of service get so much and their retirement income is so high. On top of that, cash strapped schools were not fully funding the retirement because teachers were demanding more pay, especially increased was the ones with many years, the young were supposed to wait. Never let school teachers or retired teachers be on the boards that approve teachers wage increases.

When an iron miner leaves work for the day, they leave work at work and can relax all evening. When a teacher goes home for the evening, they still have hours of grading papers and planning lessons to do. Most teachers(including myself) I worked with/know average about 70 hours per week during the school year. The "whole summer off" argument is a non-starter as well. Yes, that's a nice perk, but it's not like teachers do nothing all summer. Summer school, additional training/certifications, etc. All jobs have perks. If people like that perk so much, why not become a teacher and enjoy having the perk?
Construction workers work in worse conditions, but, in line with one of the main "teachers are already paid plenty" arguments...they chose the job they're working. They could just go get a job with better working conditions.

I have known a lot of teachers over the years. Other than English teachers, most were done after five oclock most days. They went to work for seven but they sat having coffee with other teachers talking about students and ways to fix social problems that were occurring or just coordinating things with one another so kids were not overloaded at times. With the new teaching system they are on set schedules most times so that coordination of stuff is not happening and kids are taking home piles of homework three days a week and hardly none other days. I blame that on the people at the top in the state level department of education.

The english teachers had it harder, they took home much more work because they had to grade essays and stuff. Not so much with most of the other subjects though. Like I said, I have had quite a few friends that were teachers. The big thing is that teachers were not permitted to go into bars that did not serve food, so they did not have as much freedom as others did. Some may have chose to do a little more at home because they did not want to be bored, many liked gardening, both flower gardening and veggi gardening. I hunted and fished with a few teacher friends, they enjoyed fishing a lot. I suppose after being stuck in a class with people around all day, solitude was so much better.

With the exclusion of english teachers, most teachers I knew over the years put in about fifty hours a week working, many of them would plan up ideas and try to figure schedules of teaching during the summer to streamline things when they were younger.

The thing is that the young teachers spend way more time on this than the older teachers, it takes them longer because of inexperience so they should actually get a little more than they get at the start. The older teachers I have known just worked maybe fifty hours, except of course the two english teachers I knew.

Since you are a teacher I have a question to ask. With more and more of the kids doing their reports online, how are they getting practice with spelling things correctly when they can just use error correction on their essays and stuff? Seems to me that this practice of using computers is wrong.

I do agree that teachers should get pensions and because their social security is part of their pension their pensions should be calculated figuring that in. But forty grand is steep and on top of that, it lowers what the schools can pay the young teachers so they cannot make a living. I think that real schools are lots better than online schools and do not want to see the schools shut down in our communities. This is what seems to be what this whole thing is steering towards, I learned a lot from interacting with the teachers and discussing things in class with the other students about ways to speed up things. Of course, during that five minutes of discussing things with other students, some of them were discussing non-school things if the teacher stepped out.

If I were to guess by what you have been saying about hours, I would guess you were an English teacher. They have lots of reading over and above other teachers, at least the two I knew that were english teachers did. Some of the teachers also volunteered to do coaching and stuff, they had extra hours, and maybe some who sponsored other things like the cheer club or were involved in the classes on public speaking and debates, I can't remember what that group was off hand. It qualified for a partial credit though, so technically it was a class, but it was volunteer by the teacher. That was back in the seventies, these days coaches even get paid for their efforts.

I thought we had a better education system in the seventies than now, more money was available, teachers got to teach more diversely than now. I talked to my granddaughters teacher about her homework about ten years ago, she was having problems and I tried to help her but could not figure for the life of me what they were asking for, nobody in the house could. I went to the teacher conference and asked her, she said she could not figure it out either till she looked at the answer. She told us it is getting bad, people high up in the department of education were sending them textbooks and tests to administer and they made little sense. I opened up a can of worms there, she complained for five minutes how some idiots downstate were ruining the education system and every time the teachers would get comfortable teaching their plan, they changed it to something worse. We are talking eight year olds here, not even high school kids.

So, is that extra twenty hours you week caused by all the stupid unneeded changes written by friend of the secretary of education

a reply to: rickymouse

I was a middle school math teacher (although I work in the "IT department" of a high school now), so most of my after-work hours were spent going through the student's solutions, checking line by line to make sure they actually did the problem instead of just copying down the answer. But I agree, English teachers have SO much to read it's insane.

I'm torn on the spelling bit. On the one hand, that's the direction the world is going, pretty much everything students of today will do in their career will have spell-check built in, so the fact that they're getting experience with it is important and it makes sense for them to get experience with it.
On the other hand, spelling is a fundamental skill and everyone should know how to spell. It's a tough situation. It might make sense to have a spelling class that involves hand-written tests, such as the one I had all through elementary school when I grew up.
In my mind, I feel that they need some sort of spelling class in order to be a well-rounded human. But maybe that's just my nostalgia for simpler times kicking in, as computers can type out whatever you speak to them nowadays.

:insert my curmudgeon-y, Ron Swanson-esque face here: (Yes, I work in IT and I can't stand what technology is doing to civilization)

You know before you choose to be a teacher..... how much they pay.
It is no secret. No one pulled the big bait and switch on you.
Knowing this and choosing to become a teacher.... and then acting like a victim is very disingenuous. You had the chance to become whatever you want and now you cry foul. You didnt used to be this way,,, you were trained to.
Your unhappiness.... unstatisfaction.....is because you are being told to be unhappy..... from your union. You are being told you are being ripped off and should be upset.... You are being manipulated, You are a cog in a machine that is not designed to create well educated, articulate young people. You are part of a machine that is designed to funnel more and more money back into the democrat party....... Better educated students is always one labor strike away...
Teachers have become part of a machine, You strike for more money, more teachers and better schools.. More union dues gets paid to the union.... who donates more money to candidates who promise more money, more teachers and better schools.

a reply to: Zimnydran

You?
Not me..
I'd kill the little #s...lol

originally posted by: Zimnydran
You know before you choose to be a teacher..... how much they pay.
It is no secret. No one pulled the big bait and switch on you.
Knowing this and choosing to become a teacher.... and then acting like a victim is very disingenuous. You had the chance to become whatever you want and now you cry foul. You didnt used to be this way,,, you were trained to.
Your unhappiness.... unstatisfaction.....is because you are being told to be unhappy..... from your union. You are being told you are being ripped off and should be upset.... You are being manipulated, You are a cog in a machine that is not designed to create well educated, articulate young people. You are part of a machine that is designed to funnel more and more money back into the democrat party....... Better educated students is always one labor strike away...
Teachers have become part of a machine, You strike for more money, more teachers and better schools.. More union dues gets paid to the union.... who donates more money to candidates who promise more money, more teachers and better schools.

Dude, try reading the whole OP first. It boils down to the OP crying about teachers getting the day off for a snow day (because duh, schools close for inclement weather events, always have) while his wife picked a bank job where she doesn't get that benefit. As if the teachers are somehow entitled moochers for the districts calling a snow day in the first place. Among other completely braindead complaints.
His whine needs a lot of cheese.

Ok I am tired of all this "poor teachers are underpaid" crap.

Look no one is doubting it can be a tough job, starting out you dont make alot, and you have to do some extra work (ex grading papers, taking continuing education credits, ect) .

but lets strip out all the propaganda BS and you see most of this is "o poor me" crap.

first it is KNOWN you will have to do some work off school hours .
but your compensation is to TAKE THIS INTO ACCOUNT.
in fact alot (if not all) contracts say you have a set number of periods to work and availability to students. IF you exceed that and its MANDATORY then the union has clauses in contract for extra pay.
so your hardly doing this without pay.

Second... not all teachers make XX .
that is true on the face... but the REALITY is that is STARTING TEACHERS and also MOST JOBS new people dont make that much.
But the truth is you get RAISES every year along with credit for vacations and retirements. most jobs dont have this and add to it the same amount of pay (well get to benefits in a minute) over time in service is usually (but not 100 percent) MORE than most of the average wages of TAXPAYERS in a given area.

third... the benefits of teachers in insurance and retirement usually BLOWS THE DOORS off most taxpayers in same area.
in fact its pretty common not only to get a nice pension but it also INCREASES over time. Along with alot KEEP their heath insurance...
outside of federal government show me where the average taxpayer gets anywhere near this.
I am in LE and my pension is no where near a teachers, it doesnt improve over time and i dont get heath insurance upon retirement. But somehow my job is less worth than a teacher?

fourth.... they have to go to continuing education classes during the summer and breaks.
well cry me a river... alot of jobs you have to go to classes or certifications to keep the job.
but when I do it is paid by my employer and I am paid to go to the classes.
the teachers are not being uncompensated for it in any way.
some classes like (ex) to get their masters they may have to pay for it up front and their own time.
but if one maintains a minimum grade alot (if not all) get some (including full) reimbursement along with ALL have in their contract that degree and/or certification AUTOMATICALLY increases their pay.
alot of taxpayers dont get that benefit.
add to it if its a MANDATORY certification/class the contract specifies it MUST BE PAID by the school district and they be paid to go to the class.

fifth.... teachers are GUARANTEED a set working day (within reason) , set working overall length of school year, and set time off . even if there is a strike, snow days, ect.
I cant think of any other occupation (outside of feds) that has this.
if a steel worker goes on strike, has a "snow day", ect they DONT GET PAID.
but have to go to work the next day with loss of wages... if the contract for the job is done or economy goes south, they dont have work.

sixth when the economy goes down and the TAXPAYER (you know the people paying your salaries and benefits) takes pay cuts, the pay doesnt buy what it used to, our heathcare insurance goes up / benefits cut/ or even eliminated, and/or we dont get raises you in education dont face the same thing.
In fact any attempt at something as simple as paying more for your heath insurance you scream bloody murder.
you demand more money (alot of time with raises in excess of average taxpayer) , better benefits and if you dont get it hold our children hostage untill you do.

seventh.... you get your pay guaranteed no matter how good or bad you are AND FIGHT LIKE HELL any "non educator" setting a standard of how good you are. in fact any attempt at MERIT (aka if your good you get more) pay your union fights tooth and nail.

lastly we hear all the time how you can "make more than teaching" but when the rubber meets the road i dont see the majority of you leaving for this "better job" in any major way..
ESPECIALLY those who have gone through the few years of being new.

in short as a taxpayer I VALUE your job IF YOU ARE GOOD AT IT.
but as a TAXPAYER (aka PAYS YOUR SALARY) I demand the best for my money. I demand that there is a standard to judge how good you are or are not.
also I expect you face the same economic realities that we face daily.
In short if the money is not there then you have a choice to make as to where it goes .
if you dont like the class size , equipment available, work hours, ect. then maybe some of your requested pay raise should go to that (to be honest I AGREE with you that not spend it on admin) .
If you want to be paid better then DO A BETTER JOB.
If the economy goes south you face the same hardship THE REST OF US DO.
and as the rest of us have to ... if you know the job and dont like the pay/benefits...
THEN GO DO SOMETHING ELSE.

Because the REALITY is I (and others) DONT HAVE ANYMORE MONEY/TAXES TO GIVE.
especially for poor quality results.

Scrounger

The hate us teachers get......

people complain teaching standards are dropping and that education is becoming pointless......yet you complain if asked to pay more for teachers.....

The phrase, you get what you pay for comes to mind.

You cant have high standards of teaching if you pay teachers crap.
Why?
Cause you cant attract the talent!

That's why schools are being over run with useless liberals.

People with real degrees and real talents can get paid better elsewhere! So the only ones willing to get a mediocre wage are idiots with liberal arts degrees.

You need to PAY to attract talent or you get talent less hacks teaching your kids.

Japan and Korea are top in education because they pay out.

a reply to: scrounger

I just wanted to respond to a couple of your points.

Point 2: I was a teacher for 8 years and only got a raise when I switched districts, every district I taught in had spending freezes and couldn't give raises to anyone. Meaning, unless I changed districts, I wouldn't have gotten a raise in 8 years. So that isn't necessarily true that you get a raise every single year as a teacher.

Your last point: I left teaching for a better paying job. Of the 40ish people that graduated in my class from college (I graduated in December rather than the traditional class in May, which had a lot more people) only about 8 are still teaching. All have left the profession for better paying jobs.

Saying you value the job if they're good at it: If the pay is crap, why would you expect great workers to take the job? My ex was voted teacher of the year in her district in 2007, by 2009 she was no longer teaching because she found a job that doubled her salary to 66k.
The best teachers are being pushed out because they're realizing that they can do much more for their families by taking non-teaching jobs, while a lot of today's teachers aren't that good at the job, but don't want to leave the profession because they'll be more easily fired for being lazy/bad at other jobs. Pay teachers more, and you'll attract higher quality teachers, and then you'll feel more value in your taxes going to public schools.

Higher pay results in better hires in every single job category, why wouldn't the same thing work with teaching?

a reply to: Bluntone22

He constantly posts crap about teachers on Facebook like how they are underpaid.

Many of them are. That is a fact.

I had received a text only a few minutes before that from my wife telling me she made it to work safely in the snow and ice.

I asked this guy if he and his wife had made it to work safely today.

It's largely for the safety of the kids and the potential danger involved driving in snow and ice, both schools buses and cars.

True, some teachers just downright suck, both others are very good and change students' lives. In addition, education (and a good education, such as teaching students to think, question and engage themselves) is one of the the single most important factors in and to a prosperous, functioning society and democracy.

So, they should be paid accordingly.

a reply to: Bluntone22

They are poorly paid in America one of my family has been a teacher for years in England and is now head of a small school somewhere and on big bucks 120K $

www.nasuwt.org.uk...

Yip wish i had stuck in at school as all my family are on that kind of bucks or more and never get their hands dirty and are home at 5.30 pm clean as a whistle

Me i went into construction / the dirty side

If i ever get my hands on a time machine

a reply to: ApacheHelicopetr

wow.

I love the comment "how can you expect high standards if you pay us crap" bull#.

look the job (teaching) has a set of expectations and for said expectations you are paid XX.

JUST LIKE EVERY TAXPAYER WHO WORKS AND PAYS YOUR SALARY.

you dont get to do a #ty job because you feel your pay is crap.

in ANY OTHER FIELD you be FIRED for such a work ethic

But teachers to get fired takes alot of paperwork and something almost criminal... even then some keep their jobs or pensions.

so your saying your entitled as a teacher to be crappy because of your pay?

look if you dont like the pay and job requirements....DONT TAKE OR STAY IN THE JOB.

but seems all here expressing this same idea and "oh poor me we are hated" ignore the fact that people keep taking these "low paying hard " teaching jobs at the pay you all lament about.

seems your bitching doesnt match the facts now does it.

but it boils down to this basic concept ALL US TAXPAYERS (again who pay your salary) face every day

DONT LIKE THE JOB OR PAY.... DONT WORK THERE

shees if I tried the bitching and moaning in my job they show me the door.

scrounger

a reply to: Bluntone22

My sister is a retired teacher. Her 2 daughters are also. They all make out very nicely. All live in new houses and have new cars or trucks. Even though one of them had to get the job by their mother going to the school with her friends who taught there to get her the job. Nothing like nepotism. It makes me mad when I see people more qualified don't even get a chance at a job because their family gets them the job they weren't even qualified for. Meanwhile the unemployed teachers are being stuck with the student loans.

My sister tried to get me to be a teacher. I didn't want to. She said but you get the summer off and all the holidays and a nice retirement plan as well as health/dental insurance. I don't know where they are paying teachers $30,000 like one guy posted but just move to Washington State. They get $54,000.

I'm just a disabled vet so no sympathy here.