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Supreme Court Lets Trump's Transgender Military Ban Take Effect

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posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 10:48 AM
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I'm torn on this one personally. I get why some people would have concerns of people going through hormone treatment to be in compromising situations where lives are at stake, but I also understand someone courageous enough to volunteer wanting to serve.

That said, It is what it is, and this will be one of the lingering debates (although SCOTUS for now has settled it).


The U.S. Supreme Court cleared President Donald Trump’s administration to start barring most transgender people from serving in the armed forces.



The justices, voting 5-4, put on hold lower court decisions that had blocked the administration’s planned ban from taking effect. Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan dissented.



The court stopped short of agreeing to hear arguments on an expedited basis, as the administration sought. But by letting the ban take effect, the court gave the administration a major victory and hinted the justices ultimately will uphold the restrictions.


Transgender troops have been serving openly since June 2016, when President Barack Obama’s administration began lifting a longstanding prohibition. Opponents of the ban say reinstating it would violate the Constitution’s equal protection clause.


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posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

How about showing some courage by knowing you are a liability and abstaining.

That's how I feel.


+24 more 
posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 10:54 AM
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someone in a group with a 50% suicide rate. Why would you want to put them in a servery stressful situation ?

If you argue for common sense gun control, why would you give someone with an almost 50% suicide rate, access to a gun?



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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Now we know why Hillary killed Ginsberg yesterday and replaced her with the stunt double that voted for this today.


edit on 22-1-2019 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)


+24 more 
posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:00 AM
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Transgender people have a mental illness. It's not PC to say so, but it's true. Poor self-esteem coupled with a belief that the other gender is superior or has an easier life leads them to seek major hormonal changes (or radical surgery) in an attempt to accept themselves. Even post-op transsexuals have high suicide rates because it's not really about gender, it's a matter of not being able to accept yourself for who you are.



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Now we know why Trump killed Ginsberg yesterday and replaced her with the stunt double that voted for this today.


I'm seriously wondering if they had her clerk vote for her, and tomorrow we're going to read about her death "last night."



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

I mistyped. Hillary did it!



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: Antipathy17
a reply to: CriticalStinker

How about showing some courage by knowing you are a liability and abstaining.

That's how I feel.


And I understand that sentiment.

I said they are courageous because anyone who wants to volunteer to go to a war is.

I personally think we need to know more before we allow them to serve, at least in war theaters.
edit on 22-1-2019 by CriticalStinker because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

I feel that if they can pass all the same mental and physical tests that are standard for the military, let them join. However, I do not agree with paying for any of their hormonal therapy.


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posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:17 AM
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This should be common sense.

A typical enlistment is 4 years.
The transition process will take at least 18 months where the service member is not deployable. On top of the cost of treatment, surgery, counseling, hormones and other medications. All at the taxpayers expense.



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:39 AM
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So personally I think that gender dysmorphia must be horrible to live with and I think it must take some extra courage to serve in the military when also living with this crippling condition. I believe in equal rights for all individuals regardless of gender. Equality though does not mean moving the goal posts, the standards for a man to enter into the military should be the exact same as those for anyone else regardless of gender. So if you can pass all the the same tests as anyone else then you should be able to serve your country if that's what you want to do. I can see no reason why a person who is transgender should not be permitted to join the military if they are able to meet the same standards expected from everyone else.

Now I believe that the court ruling is that people with gender dysmorphia can serve so long as they are willing to complete their service under their biologically assigned sex. I would assume then that all US service personal have all healthcare paid for by the military, so I can understand that they want to limit there costs in this way yet with such a massive military budget and relatively few individuals with gender dysmorphia serving who are undergoing treatment I would think that this cost is tiny. So that leads me to question the financial motivations behind this.

Part of me then does question how much of this is political. Trump knows his audience, his twitter announcement back in 2017 on this issue was utterly stupid yet it rallied his supporters who mostly came out in favour of it. I think that the reality of this decision is that it's been done much more to appease Trumps base of support rather than because of insurmountable problems that go with individuals with gender dysmorphia serving in the military.

Surly a better fix for this would have simply to introduce a list of exemptions for conditions that the US Military will pay to have its service personal treated for including gender dysmorphia. A compromise I think would have been to allow them to serve on the condition that they pay for any and all treatment they require in relation to their gender dysmorphia.

Basically if you were born a Jim but are now a Jill and have been for years and want to join up then I think you should if you're willing to pay for your own meds. Although that does to start to raise the question of where do you draw the line, all transpersons have to pay for their own meds, what's next, "You got type two diabetes because you eat too many cakes sorry".... meh it's a tough one I think.
edit on 22-1-2019 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: watchitburn

What is someone has already transformed though and they are completely deployable?

I still wouldn't want to have tax dollars to go towards hormones or therapy, but if they can pass the same medical tests as anyone else, I don't see why we should keep them from enlisting?



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Thank you for the post, I can tell you put a lot of thought into it.

I saw you raised the issue of equality, and this is another tricky part to the situation.... No one has the right to serve in the military, you have to be accepted.

I know that may be callus, but it is part of the discussion. We do have to remember that it's life or death once in (for many of the soldiers).



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

Thanks for the reply.



I saw you raised the issue of equality, and this is another tricky part to the situation.... No one has the right to serve in the military, you have to be accepted.



True but I believe that its only right that people have an equal right to give it a shot. I know I am over simplifying this but to me that means that if you say that to be accepted to serve you must be able to pass the following standards then regardless of gender you should be accepted so long as you meet said standards. I think calling it a "right" probably isn't the best way to put it rather its more about making the standards that must be met in order to serve should be the same for everyone regardless of man, woman, something in between, gay, bi, black, white, green...you get the idea.



I know that may be callus, but it is part of the discussion. We do have to remember that it's life or death once in (for many of the soldiers).



Again it comes back to what I was saying above if you meet the standards then that shouldn't matter, if Jim is now Jill but still the best medic in the regiment do you really care if he is now she and had her bits chopped off when you're needing a few bullet holes plugged.



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
I'm torn on this one personally. I get why some people would have concerns of people going through hormone treatment to be in compromising situations where lives are at stake, but I also understand someone courageous enough to volunteer wanting to serve.



The deal is there are a lot of conditions that prevent people from serving. One of my sons is 90% blind in one eye and he can't join, so he is going to be a electrical engineer... You can't be over weight, can't have medical issues, even some small ones, even single parents, so on and so on.

Hell I'm not sure if you can still not join if you have flat feet as it was in the past, so the point is not everyone fits the mold of that they want, and transgenders have a lot going on that fits many categories of conditions the military will not accept.


edit on 22-1-2019 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:59 AM
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I could care less if they are transgender, as long as the treatment doesn't keep them from doing their job.



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
I'm torn on this one personally. I get why some people would have concerns of people going through hormone treatment to be in compromising situations where lives are at stake, but I also understand someone courageous enough to volunteer wanting to serve.



The deal is there are a lot of conditions that prevent people from serving. One of my sons is 90% blind in one eye and he can't join, so he is going to be a electrical engineer... You can't be over weight, can't have medical issues, even some small ones, so on and so on.

Hell I'm not sure if you can still not join if you have flat feet as it was in the past, so the point is not everyone fits the mold of that they want, and transgenders have a lot going on that fits many categories of conditions the military will not accept.


That though is because you are unable to meet the standards or have a health condition that limits you're effectiveness.

So for example you might say you can't join because you're blind in one eye...you can't shoot, you need to be able to shoot to join up. You're fat, so you can't meet the physical requirements, you have high blood pressure, well you might stroke on the battlefield and so on. I mean we could get into the "ahhh but what about this exemption" debate and go round in circles all day but the point right now is about individuals with gender dysmorphia

Simply put there is nothing that physically makes anyone who is transgender unable to preform the roles of a solider.
edit on 22-1-2019 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 12:00 PM
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a reply to: headorheart

The military discriminates against people every day.
Too old
Too fat
Too skinny
Too dumb
Color blind
Flat feet
Mental problems
Criminal record
Drug use

Thanks for trying, but you're not good enough. Nothing personal, but that's how you maintain the most powerful and effective military force ever.



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

I've elaborated on that as well.

Hell, I got turned down by the army at around 20.

20/13 vision, I was 6 ft 190 with an athletic build, no tattoos and got top 5 percentile on the ASVAB.

But I got caught with pot when I was 17, so they said no since their numbers weren't down.

I probably could have gotten a waiver, but I took it as a sig and didn't try further.



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


That though is because you are unable to meet the standards or have a health condition that limits you're effectiveness.


Have there been conclusive studies on a biological male taking estrogen or a biological female taking testosterone?

I'm not aware, but the military also views things differently. While private sector can't discriminate against certain things, the military can.



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