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Not many are denying ignorance

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posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
It does not seem like many people here care about the truth of an ancient civilization(this is not a rant, rather an observation) there is so much proof of an advanced civilization in the past, but this myopia is still prevalent, through even these forums, where the motto is deny ignorance mind you, that there is no evidence or proof.

What do you mean there is no evidence or proof? Underwater Pyramids? Giza Pyramids? Nazca lines? Electroplating in Egypt. And all that evidence I have collated for the vedic civilization from ancient spectrometers to solar-powered ion engines to quantum and particle physics.

How do you suppose the ancient Egyptians were electroplating and building Pyramids? How do you suppose the Incans were able to draw hundreds of miles of lines, that can only be seen from a high aerial perspective. How, do you suppose the ancient Indians calculated the exact age of the Earth? How do you suppose Indian scientists are building new materials from ancient Sanskrit texts?

To me it seems so obvious, but it dumbfounds me, that so many would ignore this. So, I ask, why are you ignoring this and be honest, do you care an iota about the "truth"?

[edit on 27-2-2005 by Indigo_Child]


I think I'm a little confused as to the point of this thread. Indigo, are you trying to say that there is a coverup to the fact that these ancient civilizations had tech similiar to our own now? Or are you saying that they obviously had a helping hand in their amazing feats?

I too am frustrated with the ideology that people have when thinking about ancient civilizations and the amazing accomplishments, but for a different reason. I just can't understand that some people can't handle the fact that these great people had amazing knowledge and skills and imagination needed to perform such feats as building pyramids, drawing earthly lines for miles, or determine complex solar and earthly calculations. I just don't think that we give mankind enough credit. All the feats listed above can be performed using crude tools and amazing brainpower. So, where is the conspirecy? Who is saying that they didn't do such things? Why do we have to cheapen what they did by saying that they couldn't do it without having advance technology, or outside (alien) influence and help? Honor their legacy by accepting that using brilliant mathematics and sheer dertimination, mixed with ample imagination, was all these amazing people needed.




posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Indigo_Child, question(s),
If many here assert that the Bible, a religious text, should not be utilized for ancient historical reference(s), would Indian religious text(s) fall under the same scrutiny? If no, then the Bible, again, a religious text, should and can be used for ancient historical purposes?


Any artefact or text that tells us more about our history should be used. So yes, even the bible. In fact if it were not for the bibe and other texts, we would not learn about the culturul similarities between them. However, that does not mean we take it verbatim. We should scrutanize it, test it, compare it.

Now, why the Vedic texts can be tested, is because they are scientific, and because they are scientific, they can be verified. Further more, other texts that are not theological corroborate them, such as the rationalist and medical texts. Now, with the bible, rather than each part corroborating it, it contradicts it and thus it's an incoherent mess. The stories of Jesus themselves are based on ancedotal accounts several decades after Jesus was claimed to have lived.

So, this is perhaps why the bible is not the best source for history, because of it's distortions and lack of proofs and it's anti-scientific nature. However, it still can help, as there is always some element of truth in something. In the bible, that element is that the origins of the stories in the bible are actually derived from other sources. In the same way we learn that Islam is derived from other sources. There is only one master source.

And the easiest answer is - Vedic Aryans, based on all the evidence. Before then we are in the ice age, and it is not likely that a civilization existed in the ice age.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Blackguard XIII says:

"the incans had balloons, remember "

Uncle Joe says:

"Incas, using ballons were able to mark out where they wanted their markings to go..."

I've not seen anything that says that the Incas or their precursors had balloons, whether capable of carrying a person or not.

Do you have any links to this?



wow, that brings back memories. A few years back on a now defunct RC airplane forum, a character by the name of Prof. Joe Vee, wove a wonderful, nonsensical tale of incas and human powered flying machines. It got around in a limited fashion. does anyone else remember reading about this?



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 08:29 PM
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Mpeake, I am saying that our ancients were a highly sophisticated civiilization, technologically and spiritually, and we should concentrate on the vast body of knowledge they left behind. I am giving them credit for their accomplishments and achivements. I am absolutely awe struck at their accomplishments. I also believe there was an extraterrestrial involvement.

However, I think it is discrediting them and even our own heritage, to not accept their history and to call it myths, when there is such an overwhelming mass of evidence to show otherwise. This is about the truth of human origins and it about denyng ignorance. It is also knowing ourselves and our shared ethos better, and being empowered with it. It also about denying dogma, lies and control of people who have perpetrated this and perpetuated this cover-up. It is about restoring that knowledge and wisdom driven society and uniting everyone.

It's about rewriting history the right way. It might not be important to others, but it important that we know the truth. Further, there is a lot more in vedic literature that will help us understand who we are, what we are capable of, and other ancient sciences to further advance our society. I guess the biggest lesson we can learn from them - is not to repeat the mistakes of destroying ourselves in world wars.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Feb, 28 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Ok, I might be going on a stretch here, but hear me out...

Take the Bible, Indian texts, Plato's Atlantis, and even some of the Summarian texts and what you have in common is the flood account re-occuring in each text. Why is this immportant? Well, obviously they all point to one thing: a pre-flood civilization. Each account goes into very little detail as to the technologic advancements with the exception of Plato which has grown into an incredably vibrant depiction of a society far more advanced than ours.

So there is written documentation of a society that (as far as we are told) archeology does not back up. However, if there is a massive flood, what happens to the landmarks that are not solidly built? They wash away, right? So is the real answer to the riddle in the great lakes, Atlantic and Pacific, Black Sea, Dead Sea, etc.? Look at the Japanese pyramyds, and the underwater roads in Bermuda (bahamas?). They're under water. And of course, what is the real final frontier for man to explore in depth? The bottom of the ocean. Yeah, Bob Ballard has done some amazing stuff along with Crusou (sp?), but look at the surface area of the oceans. We've barely scratched the surface (so to speak).

As for the Incan theory, the great riddle with them is this: they are the only full fledged Civilization in known History to not have a written language. They broke the rules. I learned that in Latin American History at ASU, not the internet.




posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by mpeake

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
It does not seem like many people here care about the truth of an ancient civilization(this is not a rant, rather an observation) there is so much proof of an advanced civilization in the past, but this myopia is still prevalent, through even these forums, where the motto is deny ignorance mind you, that there is no evidence or proof.

What do you mean there is no evidence or proof? Underwater Pyramids? Giza Pyramids? Nazca lines? Electroplating in Egypt. And all that evidence I have collated for the vedic civilization from ancient spectrometers to solar-powered ion engines to quantum and particle physics.

How do you suppose the ancient Egyptians were electroplating and building Pyramids? How do you suppose the Incans were able to draw hundreds of miles of lines, that can only be seen from a high aerial perspective. How, do you suppose the ancient Indians calculated the exact age of the Earth? How do you suppose Indian scientists are building new materials from ancient Sanskrit texts?

To me it seems so obvious, but it dumbfounds me, that so many would ignore this. So, I ask, why are you ignoring this and be honest, do you care an iota about the "truth"?

[edit on 27-2-2005 by Indigo_Child]


I think I'm a little confused as to the point of this thread. Indigo, are you trying to say that there is a coverup to the fact that these ancient civilizations had tech similiar to our own now? Or are you saying that they obviously had a helping hand in their amazing feats?

I too am frustrated with the ideology that people have when thinking about ancient civilizations and the amazing accomplishments, but for a different reason. I just can't understand that some people can't handle the fact that these great people had amazing knowledge and skills and imagination needed to perform such feats as building pyramids, drawing earthly lines for miles, or determine complex solar and earthly calculations. I just don't think that we give mankind enough credit. All the feats listed above can be performed using crude tools and amazing brainpower. So, where is the conspirecy? Who is saying that they didn't do such things? Why do we have to cheapen what they did by saying that they couldn't do it without having advance technology, or outside (alien) influence and help? Honor their legacy by accepting that using brilliant mathematics and sheer dertimination, mixed with ample imagination, was all these amazing people needed.


All the feats listed above can be performed using crude tools and amazing brainpower.
mpeake

I would be grateful if you could expand on this claim. I don't see the possibility of that. When you build a structure consisting of tiers of row after row of different sized blocks, the dropping of one block would cause the hole effort to come to a halt until it was replaced. And the fact that the extreme accuracy of its alignment to north, trueness to square, perfect straightness of the hallways, position on the planet's exact center of the landmass, the subtly concave faces that will show halfshadow at the summer solstice, ad nauseum.......
Brainpower alone does not let you know how much of the earth surface is dryland, and where that land is, though if you know that, you can then find the center......How'd they know?



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 09:30 AM
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I'll tell you what, I'll provide a few links regarding the workforce needed, and possible details to how the pyramids were built (including the ways the egyptions may have been able to align the pyramids with the stars) and let you go from there...

www.touregypt.net...

www.peter-thomson.co.uk...

www.theforgottentechnology.com...

www.math.nus.edu.sg...

www.bbc.co.uk...
(my favorite)

I can find MANY more, but I'll let you go thru these first...



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Mpeake,

There are theories upon theories on how the Pyramids were constructed, but no one has yet proven either. Even in the the links you cited the author(bbc) still calls it a mystery, and says further the greatest engineering is actually inside the pyramid. Perhaps it is possible for slave labor to transport tons of blocks. However, how do they raise the blocks? Some say slopes. The slope would have to be huge, several hundreds of feet to be able to reach the higher parts of the Pyramids. I can only visualise it as a large wooden plank starting several hundreds of feet from the Pyramid and this would be impossible, because the slope will collapse under the load of the 2 ton blocks. Alternatively, if the slope started closer, it would eventually become too steep to move anything up it. So, all I can imagine is some kind of crane/lever device - that's advanced technology.

Then, how did they cut these blocks and furthermore, who were cutting the blocks? As the author says in the article, it would not have been possible to cut the rocks with copper, so they must used something much harder, and he suggests Quartz. So, whoever cut it, got some sharp tool like quartz and cut into it. Can you imagine that? What did they do, pick up a block of quartz and cut through it? Sounds unlikely.

Was it one person who cut it? 10 people? Hundreds of people? Even a workforce of modern humans with modern tools will not be able to cut bricks into equal size, because of the probability for human error, and the cruder the tools and techniques, the probability for human error will grow exponentially. This probability for error decreases exponentially when we introduce technology and more advanced techniques. For instance, before the advent of the automatic adding machines, all arithmetic was done mentally or on paper, that errors in transactions, purchases, accounting were made very frequently.

So, why is there no error in the Pyramids or Nazca lines? Again, refresh your memory, look at the spider spanning several hundreds of yards - that can only be seen from high in the sky. Look at how the Pyramids are aligned, calibrated to the golden mean phi and even aligned with the stars, so that the shafts points to certain constellations. Did our ancients have superhuman intelligence?

Yes, perhaps they did, as you said "amazing brain power" but such infalliable intelligence has very far-reaching implications. Because, using tools and resources and using physical principles, is intelligent. If they had such amazing brain power, that they could cut thousands of bricks, and cut the next so that it forms a slope with the previous layer, which would take modern man machines to do, then they are intelligent enough to note physical principles in everyday phenomena that would increase efficieny and productivity.

They could note the principles of hydrostatics like Archmedes; the principles of steam causing motor action like Hero of Alexandra; and the basic mechanics of levers and marry and adjust them to produce a steam engines and use the principles of hydraulics to lift the stones and machines to cut stones. After all - the Greeks's never built anything as advanced as the Pyramids and Nazca lines. It's like's putting an entire civilization of Einstein's together - it is certain that the rate of scientific development would skyrocket. Remember, modern technology is only a few centuries old.

You see, even saying they had amazing brain powers, is endowning them the potential for advanced technology. Technology, is simply practical intelligence - using tools. We even know that they were electroplating, so again, that certainly suggests that this "amazing brain power" was used to develop technology, as I said. No matter what the technique that was used to construct the Pyramids or Nazca lines, these are astonishing feats of engineering and mathematics, and anyone who creates something like this, thousands and thousands of years ago - is most definitely advanced - and we should acknowledge that.

Again, to put this into perpective, the type of engineering they were capable of, we were only capable of later in the industrial age - today we are a nanotech civilization. So, why wouldn't the Egyptians be a nanotech civilization, when they are much older than us and had millenais more to develop.

Science and technology is very interconnected, each principle is connected and can be understood by examing the parts - it is like piecing a puzzle together and eventually the picture is becoming clearer - this is why we can jump from electromagnetic induction(turning a coil in a magnet) - dynamo - motors and transformers in less then a century, and as soon as you understand eletricity, it's starts to becoming even more clearer - cathods rays - x-rays - particle accelerators - spitting of the atom - nuclear energy. For the ancients, this picture was becoming clear so many millenias ago. We are still a very young scientific civilization.

A lot of scientific discoveries have been chance encounters, that is because nobody really understood anything, they just played with the effect for a long time, and were able to invent things. You know Edison failed 1000 times in making the light bulb - on the 1001th attempt he succeeded. That is how every scientist has invented something, by playing around with effects or previous thoughts or theories. Einstein played around with Newtons mechanics and Planks theories.

In India, the science of refraction and reflection was understood. So what do they do, they can play around with light with glass, mirrors and create different kinds of lens, eventually we have a telescope, a micoscope. Understanding light and it's mechanics was the first step - the second step came just a few years later - with micoscopes and telescopes. We see the understanding of light and it's mechanics in India, again, many millenias ago.

So all this technology we hear about from lasers, spectrometers and nuclear physics is simply the natural evolution of knowlege - applied knowledge. The west is not the most scientific civilization, and we know that science was suppressed here and wrong theories like flat earth were entertained. Only later did it start again and here we are typing on computers to each other across continents. Now, in India, which is a society based on science and Egypt which is based on astronomy, both which are millenias older than the current western civilization, it would be simply arrogance to think that they could not have been more advanced than us, because it is so easy to prove that they were.

[edit on 1-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 04:15 PM
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If the flood account of the bible is real, then a pre-flood civilization would be pretty advanced, they would have had around 2000 years to prosper before being utterly wiped out.

After the flood there would be a tiny population. Not much use for all that technology eh? And besides, all the water would have destroyed and/or buried it all.

So their technology would atrophy, with a tiny population you wouldn't need a pilot or nuclear bombs. Not until after Babel would there be racial discrimination, thus the beginning of wars, thus a need for better technology.

They would have scrambled to remember what the ancients had, but would have only remembered stories from their grandparents about a "Battery" and "Airships" and maybe even "Nuclear Bombs".

So of course, based on what their grandparents had said, they'd try to replicate it. Most would fail, so it would be forgotten.


Atleast, that's my interpretation of it all. I'm not denying the existence of an advanced civilization, I'm just providing another explanation.


[edit on 1-3-2005 by Mbuhir]



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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Good points, and I was pointing out that most of everything would be washed away with the exceptions of major landmarks. There have been several geologists confirm that there are water marks on the sphinx suggesting to some of climate differences conflicting with the projected time of which it was built.

Also: I really don't think that any amount of water would be able to wash away a pyramid, especially ones in the scope and size of Giza, the Yucatan, China, and Mexico. Again, look at the pyramids in Japan. If these are real pyramids (as of yet, I don't think a professional opinion has been made) they are still mostly intact. Thus, even thought the technology would be lost (and I agree with you that most of it would be lost after a flood of that size) I'm trying to maintain that traces of this civilization remain in artifacts that we credit to the ancients.

It's just something to think about.



posted on Mar, 1 2005 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by Washball
Good points, and I was pointing out that most of everything would be washed away with the exceptions of major landmarks. There have been several geologists confirm that there are water marks on the sphinx suggesting to some of climate differences conflicting with the projected time of which it was built.

Also: I really don't think that any amount of water would be able to wash away a pyramid, especially ones in the scope and size of Giza, the Yucatan, China, and Mexico. Again, look at the pyramids in Japan. If these are real pyramids (as of yet, I don't think a professional opinion has been made) they are still mostly intact. Thus, even thought the technology would be lost (and I agree with you that most of it would be lost after a flood of that size) I'm trying to maintain that traces of this civilization remain in artifacts that we credit to the ancients.

It's just something to think about.


Of course, like the Sphinx having water rings.... yet there's should've been no water there at the time it was built, or the "failed" pyramids found out in the middle of the desert that don't have the supplies to be built there?



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 05:52 AM
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Indigo Child, thankyou for the exhausting but interesting reply.
Unfortunately i still dont beleive a word of it, Ballons are not in themselves high tech devices, all that is needed is fabric, rope, sand for ballast and a source of heat you can use without setting the thing on fire. And just to be an arrogant smart arse the Nazca lines were made by the Nazca peoples and not the Incas.

The Egyptians may have used batteries, i beleive this to be the case but have no evidence for it. The babylonians did, we have their batteries. Batteries are a mark of higher technology, but i still dont beleive that that is indicative of a hugely advanced culture. The Greeks had a steam powered sprinkler system, however they did not develop this idea further, there are no greek steam pumps or steam trains.

The corrosion resistan iron pillar near Dehli is pure iron and does not rust. Not a miricle, just very patient refining.

Have you ever read the works of Velikovsky? He used the same technique you do to argue that Venus was ejected from Jupiter around 9000 years ago and screwed about with the orbits of Earth and Mars before settling down. However there was no evidence for this but ancient myths and legends. Which while they might be fun are not factual, though they may well reflect events of the past they are prone to exxageration (Noahs flood and all the other flood myths) or just plain crap (deadalus and icarus)

I still deny ignorance by not deny the powers of the ancients



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 07:45 AM
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I also believe that there was civilization older than most believe, but I don't think they were more advanced in science and technology. There are clues that they were advanced in astronomy, for example Stonehenge, the Pyramids all show alignment with the stars. But it sounds like some people are saying this all came from one source of knowledge.


By Indigo_child
So, why is there no error in the Pyramids or Nazca lines? Again, refresh your memory, look at the spider spanning several hundreds of yards - that can only be seen from high in the sky. Look at how the Pyramids are aligned, calibrated to the golden mean phi and even aligned with the stars, so that the shafts points to certain constellations. Did our ancients have superhuman intelligence?

Keep in mind that the Pyramids and Nazca lines were built 3500 years apart from each other, and on different continents. I know your using them as examples, but how can they be related by the same source of knowledge? Except if you believe it was taught to them from alien visitors (which is plausible).

From what I've seen there is proof of ancient civilization as old as 10,000 years, and did a thread on the Japanese Pyramids.

But if you look at the pictures there is nothing more than simple construction. No signs of "advanced civilization".

Indigo_child, I may have the wrong impression of your theory. Can you please summarize your theory in say a paragraph or two. Don't go into proofs as you have covered some allready. I am just trying to understand. Also would like to look at previous threads on this if you can point them out. Thanks.

BTW, it is not ignorance if you look at a theory and not accept it.

[edit on 3/4/2005 by rwatkins]

[edit on 3/4/2005 by rwatkins]



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 08:12 AM
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one of the best teachers i had in high school was my world history teacher. she brought to life the ancient civilizations for us all. we discussed the egyptians, romans, greeks, atlanteans, persians,the bible you name it and we covered it in her class...... and everyone of them was so amazing it has forever changed my impressions of the ancient worlds.

nothing was too out there for discussion...............she knew all kinds of interesting concepts and pointed us to the books to find the research in........

it would be a breath of fresh air for our education systems if there were many more teachers like this one...............she kindled a fire in all of her students for the study of ancient civilizations.


angie



posted on Mar, 4 2005 @ 09:44 PM
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Uncle Joe,

Yes, an hot air ballon does not exactly sound like advanced technology does it. All it is, is some rope, a basket, and yards of fabric and some basic principles of hot air rising. Now, please allow me to demystify the rest for you and you will learn the implication of hot air balloons according to ancient people. I am going to this by taking the sum of evidence into account.

Now, if the Incans could build balloons, surely they could build kites, eh
So, one day a poor ancient is flying a kite of a metal frame and he goes outside in the storm and a bolt of lightening strikes him. The ancients grieve his death, yet one man with some intelligence, sees there is a connection between the kite and lightening. So, he flies his own kite, and soon learns that lightening can be attracted, he calls this electrical energy. Then some other ancients, who almost blew himself up by mixing certain acids together, theorizes that the acids must have some latent thunder power and then recalls how lightening was attracted with metals. So, he has this bright idea to use metal plates and a solution to produce an electrochemical current. He thus produces a battery. Soon all the intellectuals are equating electricity with everything - there must be electricity in everything, it must be in me, in the sun, in the moon, it suddenly become the craze of everyone.

So they try everything to get electricity with the metal technique. They place different metals out in the sun, different shapes and different sizes to attract the power of the sun. One bright spark, wonders what power is there in the magnet that pulls things towards it, could it be electricity too, so he brings a coil and turns it in a magnet, and the first electromagnetic current is produced. He then builds a little contraption, basically where he can spin a coil in a magnet, with his hand and he learns that there is connection between motion, magnet and electricity. This becomes the new craze, the talk of the town, and everyone starts playing with dynamo to see those electrical sparks fly.

Then another bright spark comes along says says that maybe it is possible to cause rotary motion with this effect and then invents a motor, transformer, electric generator. And before we know it, we have the electrical revolution.

Required tools for the electrical revolution:

Kite
Magnets
Metals
Acids
Basic gears and cogs

All you need is a kite, some magnets, metals, some acids and very basic principles of engineering.

Then, some other bright spark decides to marry motors to a glider and we get the plane. While, others playing with electronics invent light bulbs, telephones. While, others learn how to turn electricity into waves, and we get radio. Then eletricity is used to send light. We keep going and we finally have our first microprocessor.

Rope, basket and some yards of fabric and kites, magnets, metals and acids and metals and cog wheels and were in the modern age. Yet, my friend, it took western civilsation 4000 years to do this, and the Egyptians already had their first batteries and were electroplating. Oh, they were so beyond the kite stage


I am glad you realise how simple all this technology is. Oh, and by the way, the Greeks had steam sprinkers, and Hero had devised the first device that created rotary motion, as you said, and had they not beed oppressed by the Christian church, we would have been in the space age a millenia ago.

Further more, to put even further perspective on this, the first corrision proof technology appeared in the 20th century


rwatkins,

Yes, I am very aware that the Nazca lines and the Egyptian Pyramids are on different continents, South America and North Africa to be exact, and yes I am using them as examples to show that the level technology and engineering was advanced in ancient civilizations. However, I am arguing, for a civilisation with flight technology, so continental distances do indeed become meaningless.

I want to share with you, something that you will find interesting about the Pyramids and Nazca lines and other wonders of the world and temple cities. The ancient temple cities and wonders are all aligned across the circumference of the Earth, that is Easter island, Nazca lines, the Great Pyramids of Egypt in a straight line and other wonders lie within one tenth of one degree, including Perseopolis(the capital of Persia), Mohenjo Daro(supposedly the capital of the Indus Valley), Khajuraho(the temple city of the Chandela empire city in central India, the Oracle of Zeus-Amon at Siwa and lost city of Petra. The Sumerian city of Ur and Angkor temples in Cambodia and Thailand are within one degree of latitude of the alignment. What is even more amazing the cities of Angkor, Giza, Nazca and then Angkor again, across a straight line, is such that the distance between each point forms the perfect mathematical ratio of phi (the golden mean)

Read more about this here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now, this cannot really be a coincidence, which must mean therefore that they have a common designer. If you read the "Aryan" thread I argue that there was a global Aryan civilisation.

To summarize my "theory" for you. In the yesteryear of mankind, some thousands of years ago, where it is believed by modern historians civilization was relatively primitive socially and technologically, a highly advanced space-age civilisation existed and due to a global cataclysm this civilisation was destroyed. Yes, I also believe there was an extraterrestrial involvement. Now, to test this theory can reference to all the proofs I have offered.

Now, how do we reconcilate this with what we have found in the world at that time. The examples of underwater Pyramids does not actually give any indication of a primitive civilisation mind you. However, a more better example would be rock art and stone tools. Yet, at the same time urban planned cities have also been found, with modern drainage systems, streets and boulevards and engineering feats like Pyramids and Nazca lines. What is interesting about the ancient Indian cities, they show that the cities were built over repeatedly and gradually became lesser sophisticated.

So how do we reconcile primitive technology and advanced technology existing at the same time? Quite easily actually. Just take a trip to some parts of Afghanistan, South America and India, particularly and Andaman and Nicobar Islands, where tribal people live. Thus there is no reason that in ancient times tribal and hi-tech civilisation did not co-exist on this planet.

Another theory, and quite quite easy to test logically, is that after the fables global cataclysm, civilisation had to rebuild and they used primitive tools for hunting and gathering as a basic survival instinct. Now, the same is true for us, if a global catacylsm did occurr that destroyed most of modern civilisation, then we would have to resort to primitive tools. So, both of these theories or indeed a combination of them, can reconcilate why there is primitive technology.

You would find, finding a stone axe and then equating this with a primitive civilisation, is a lot like finding fossils of dinosaurs and equating this with huge stupid reptiles that roamed the planet - both reasoning is flawed. I hope that some of the scribbles I did on walls as a child will not be interpreted by future archaeolgists as a specimen of human art


Amb1063,

That is brilliant, but I have a question, was this part of the school curriculum, or was it just your teachers interjections.



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 12:30 AM
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Well see, I'd love to believe that ancient civilizations had advanced technology, but it's just not feasable to me. For one, there's too much evidence to the contrary. Also, I think we would have found SOMETHING. ANY remnant of their techonology. Any working electronic machine dated that long ago. Civilization doesn't decline, it progresses. I've seen people use literature from ancient times to justify the technology argument. "See, it mentions it in this book!". But think about it... What if 2,000 years from now, some future-archeologist was digging around where one of our cities used to be. He finds "Harry Potter", or "The Terminator". Suddenly, anyone who couldn't cast spells in our times were knows as "Muggles", and we could travel back in time. Maybe they had fiction just like we do?



posted on Mar, 5 2005 @ 03:49 PM
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Thanks Indigo for the summary, sorry I am new and trying to catch up. I will read the thread you posted, after looking at it briefly, it looks very interesting. I also started on the thread you have in your signature, but there is alot of information to absorb. Please bare with me.


Originally posted by Herman
Well see, I'd love to believe that ancient civilizations had advanced technology, but it's just not feasable to me. For one, there's too much evidence to the contrary. Also, I think we would have found SOMETHING. ANY remnant of their techonology. Any working electronic machine dated that long ago. Civilization doesn't decline, it progresses.


I have to agree that there would be some evidence of an advanced civilization. I have seen artifacts that look similar to modern inventions, like airplanes, but none that really work.

But your statement about civilization not declining is not true. Just look at all the great civilizations in the past that have fallen. A good example is ancient Greece. The Antikethera Mechanism showed that they had advanced working knowledge of machinery back in 78 BC. Then that knowledge was lost. It was not regained until the 1600's to the level they were at.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 09:42 AM
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Greeks repressed by the Chrisitan church?? Most interesting thing to be said here so far....

But back to the thread- Still no proof, lots of 'what if'
Build a kite out of metal, ok nazca people (only ones with real proof of flight) did not have a great deal of iron, the myth of El Dorado stems from the fact that when the Spanish arrived in the 16th C the Incas used gold for everyday objects.

Therefore gold would be the metal of choice for these people, a soft, malleable metal that in the quatities needed to fly (very little, gold is heavy and not easily supported by wind) would have bent and buckled under the strain.

Also your ideas require either a considerable number of local geniuses as so many different discoveries require a great deal of time. They also require reasonably advanced laboratories as technology progresses. These would be big buildings. There would be some remnants. There are not.

Basic gears and cogs- is their any evidence of the Nazca/Inca/Aztec, Olmec possesing these things, because they only have value as part of a useful moving system such as a windmill. The S. American civilisation didnt use these things, no cogs = no simple machinery.

Still no killer evidence, no circuits, no ancient electromagnets. Some evidence of electroplating does not a high tech civilisation make. An advanced civilisation by the standards of anything up to the 18th century perhaps.

But then again no gunpowder, Egypt lacked something that has been critical for the success of the scientific revolution in Europe that led to todays world. Egypt was more advanced in one field, medieval Europe in another. Neither was high tech, neither had aeroplanes, starships, wombat security fields or any other examples of high technology.

A hihg tech society like ours requires huge amounts of food to sustain the cities, therefore there needs to be good agriculture, a mechanised society of the type you describe will have combine harvesters, tractors or similar devices. There will be vast mining complexes using mechanised drills. All these things cannot have been flooded by the end of the ice age or wiped out in a nuclear war. (mostly due to the fact that the first genuine nuclear explosion on earth took place in 1945)

Provide proof that isnt based on ancient legends (or make a convincing story out of St Geroge and the Dragon) or a single solid undeniably high technology arfiact.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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Uncle Joe,

I find it absolutely hilarious that you would concede to ancient civilisation being as advanced as an 19th(that is when electroplating started, not 18th) century civilisation, yet will not concede they would be more than advanced than us, when all it takes is a century to become a 20th century civilisation - and the ancients had several millenias to do that in. There are 40 centuries in 4000 years.

It seems like you have unknowing and unwittingly proven the very thing you are trying to debunk. So, I am going to call it a day.

P.S Gunpowder is 3000+ years old and was used by the Chinese for offensive rockets and fireworks. Little is known but it was used in India too and full texts exist that describe recipes for explosives. In fact one of ancient India's main resource is saltpeter and it was used both in explosives and rockets and for medicine.

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Why is it funny? Where have i provided evidence for cloneing or any other extravagant stuff you postulate?

I have admitted that the Nazca people probably had ballons on the basis of the relics they left and the Condor project that built a baloon out of the materials available to the people of the time. I have supported the idea of babylonian electroplating and use of electricity due to the existance of several batteries.

Still no proof of an ancient high tech civilisation in the sense that they had better technology than is available to us today. There is absoulutely no physical evidence! until that is provided your points remain nothing but interesting storytelling.

Just out of curiosity, did the Egyptians have the sewers available to london in the 19th century? Did they build ships of iron? Did the chinese? Did the Indians?

Stop grasping at straws to prove the untrue. The people alive today in Western Europe, Americ and Japan are the most advanced civilisations in terms of technology to have ever existed on this planet.



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