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Snap UK General Election Feb 28th ?

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posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: surfer_soul




Vote for the same party already in power that can’t see through Brexit because we need them to guide us through Brexit? I really don’t get your logic there gortex.

The Tory party are the only one's who offer a proper Brexit and as I'm for Brexit they are the only option.
Labour want to either stop Brexit or tie us up in a Customs Union with the EU which will mean we can't make our own trade deals and will be stuck run by Europe with no say in the direction of Europe.

The thought of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary sends chills down my spine and Corbyn in the big chair has an equal effect.

The Tory party gave birth to Brexit they should see the process through.


Do you believe the Tory’s really wanted Brexit? Cameron only called for the referendum because he promised one in his election campaign. His government campaigned massively against it. Then when it (surprisingly) happened he fled and we get a remainer in charge of negotiations and she comes up with a plan that neither those for or against Brexit can except. The whole thing is beyond a farce.

I think one good thing might come out of all this, and that is the possibility to do away with the two party political system altogether. Time and again both parties have proved to be nothing more than self serving hypocrites. Claiming to support the countries most valued institutions such as the NHS while at the same time undermining them and quietly creaming off as much private profits as they can.

The fact is they don’t care for or serve the nations best interests, they are only there to help themselves and their cronies. As evidenced by PFI and the expenses scandal etc...




posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 09:27 AM
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a reply to: gortex

This is a system I would like to see implemented, one which I’m sure most people aren’t even aware of. It’s called a Demarchy.


randomly selected decision makers who have been selected by sortition (lot) from a broadly inclusive pool of eligible citizens. These groups, sometimes termed "policy juries", "citizens' juries", or "consensus conferences", deliberately make decisions about public policies in much the same way that juries decide criminal cases. Demarchy, in theory, could overcome some of the functional problems of conventional representative democracy, which is widely subject to manipulation by special interests and a division between professional policymakers (politicians and lobbyists) vs. a largely passive, uninvolved and often uninformed electorate. According to Australian philosopher John Burnheim, random selection of policymakers would make it easier for everyday citizens to meaningfully participate, and harder for special interests to corrupt the process. More generally, random selection of decision makers from a larger group is known as sortition (from the Latin base for lottery).



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: surfer_soul

The Tory party is historically a Euro skeptic party so yes I believe a significant number do want Brexit , perversely it was the working man who voted for Brexit but it's the working mans party who are trying top defeat it.



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: surfer_soul

Do you believe the Tory’s really wanted Brexit? Cameron only called for the referendum because he promised one in his election campaign.


Its immaterial what Cameron or the Torys wanted the people voted to leave

the EU. And the government need to carry out the WILL of the people.



His government campaigned massively against it. Then when it (surprisingly) happened he fled and we get a remainer in charge of negotiations and she comes up with a plan that neither those for or against Brexit can except. The whole thing is beyond a farce.


Were you really surprised at the result? I wasn't.

But I agree with you about a remainer in charge, I think a body of business

people, genuine government minister leavers and Nigel Farage would have

made a better *Brexit Panel.*

And yes it has become a farce.



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: eletheia

I was as surprised by the result as I was when trump got elected. I knew both had support of course but I really didn’t expect it to be the majority. To me this is a sign of huge discontent with the status qou.

I believe the EU to be syanchist in nature another term most people won’t even have heard of. But even the wiki page describes what many fear the EU really is.

Synarchism



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: gortex




The Tory party is historically a Euro skeptic party


Really?

Ted Heath took us in. Thatcher and Major where signed up to The EU good and proper. May wanted to remain.

So if the Tories are historically Euro Skeptic, why have they never voted a leader of their party who wanted out of The EU ?



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: gortex




perversely it was the working man who voted for Brexit but it's the working mans party who are trying to defeat it


Yes, how bizarre is this situation? From what I can gather it’s more or less the same in USA, the traditional left has mutated into something I can’t even recognise which seems to represent a conglomerate of minority groups rather than the majority of working class.

The globalists are doing all they can to destroy populist movements and national identity so they can implement their corporate Synarchist form of rule on all of us.



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: alldaylong




Ted Heath took us in.

Heath took us into a Common Market.




So if the Tories are historically Euro Skeptic, why have they never voted a leader of their party who wanted out of The EU ?

Perhaps they haven't had a leader who said they want to do that but as we know the opinion of the leadership and that of the party aren't always the same.

You mention Thatcher , I'll let her speak for herself.

edit on 19-1-2019 by gortex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 10:48 AM
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a reply to: gortex




Perhaps they haven't had a leader who said they want to do that but as we know the opinion of the leadership and that of the party aren't always the same


In the 2016 Tory Party Leadership Contest, three Euro Skeptic candidates stood, Gove, Fox and Leadsom.

None of those got elected, but May did. May is a EU Remainer. There is no way the Tories are Euro skeptic.

I will leave you with this quote from Winston Churchill.




“There is a remedy which ... would in a few years make all Europe ... free and ... happy. It is to re-create the European family, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe.


europa.eu...
edit on 19-1-2019 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: surfer_soul

It's because the Labour Party are members of the Party of European Socialism , the European Grandees in Overalls who are also anti Brexit and actually helped the ruling majority European People's Party to power - helped Junker get the Presidency.

The synarchy itself used to be honourable enough in being bound to recognise the sovereignty of nations , and the importance of unanimity. But the partisan grouping called the EPP has developed too much power by using their European majority to seduce and manipulate nearly all the heads of state through their national parties . By changing previously *required to be unanimous* decisions of particularly the European Council to qualified majority voting (QMV) instead , they've consolidated the position where the previously pragmatic synarchy is now the preserve of an exclusive elite - themselves.
Why we've got Brexit or where it started is with Cameron having the balls to say no to the EPP and break the UK Conservative Party's previous alleigance with them . Otherwise Britain would have been getting over-ruled by the German Heartland of the EPP, again and again and again .
So the EU is a synarchy which has been usurped by partisans which have made already made national sovereignties and democracies and currencies secondary to their ends . While these partisans are now looking for national militarys to serve their purposes too ( the UK has nuclear capabilites too , which we paid for ) Brexit has come to pass not a second too late


EPP -

The European People's Party (EPP) is a conservative[6] and Christian democratic[6] European political party. A transnational organisation, it is composed of other political parties, not individuals. Founded by primarily Christian democratic parties in 1976, it has since broadened its membership to include liberal-conservative parties and parties with other centre-right political perspectives.[7][8][9][10]

The EPP has been the largest party in the European Parliament since 1999 and in the European Council since 2002. It is also by far the largest party in the current European Commission. The President of the European Council, President of the European Commission and the President of the European Parliament are all from the EPP.

Many of the Founding fathers of the European Union were also from parties that later formed the EPP. Outside the EU the party also controls a majority in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. The EPP has alternated with its centre-left rival the Party of European Socialists (PES) as the largest European political party and parliamentary group. The EPP includes major centre-right parties such as the Union of Germany (CDU/CSU), The Republicans of France, CD&V of Belgium, KDU-ČSL of the Czech Republic, Fine Gael of Ireland, Forza Italia of Italy, the People's Party (PP) of Spain and the Social Democratic Party of Portugal, the Civic Platform of Poland but also Fidesz of Hungary.


Example of how the EPP controls European affairs through EU policy :


EPP leaders meet for the EPP Summit a few hours before each meeting of the European Council in order to formulate common positions. Invitations are sent by the EPP President and attendees include, besides the members of the EPP's Presidency, all Presidents and Prime Ministers who are members of the European Council and belong to the EPP; the Presidents of the European Parliament, the European Commission and the European Council, as well as the High Representative for Foreign Affairs, provided that they belong to the EPP

edit on 19-1-2019 by DoctorBluechip because: add quotes from wiki



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: gortex

You mention Thatcher , I'll let her speak for herself.


Absolutely spot on



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: alldaylong

In the 2016 Tory Party Leadership Contest, three Euro Skeptic candidates stood, Gove, Fox and Leadsom.
None of those got elected, but May did. May is a EU Remainer. There is no way the Tories are Euro skeptic.


Watching the leadership contest Leadsome was way out of the depth and the

others lacked charisma. If May had had any sense she would have made a Brexit

panel which would have included Gisela Stuart and Nigel Farage (who widely had

the most experience of dealing with the EU elite) But May who had waited

patiently for years in the background was not about to give up her 5 minutes in

the limelight.







I will leave you with this quote from Winston Churchill.


“There is a remedy which ... would in a few years make all Europe ... free and ... happy. It is to re-create the European family, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe.


Most people live in groups of friends aquaintences and family with the same

aims and lifestyles etc. As a group mine dont feel free... and happy with things

we have been told we have to have so we are all alike. A bit like parents

who insist on dressing twins, triplets, or quads alike as if they are the same and

not individuals.

The Brits are individuals and not part of a faceless mass.


ETA.... I liked my old light bulbs ..... I liked my powerful vaccume cleaner....

i liked my more powerful hair dryer...... I liked my weed killer (it worked)

I liked my insect repellent ...... I liked my crocked bananas and cucumbers!!

and our own currency the £








edit on 19-1-2019 by eletheia because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-1-2019 by eletheia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: gortex
I have several ques. for you blokes
if you go to the polls and
if labour won do you think they would give the rock to spain and
the falklands to the ratbags on the main land
and if nigel ran up a flag would he have much of a chance
tks in advance mate



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: pronto

I think that having Corbyn negotiating UKs future would be a worry. After all, he believes in a united Ireland. If there is a General Election and Labour won, then it'll be a disaster. However, there's no guarantee Labour would win an election. Corbyn needs to man up and have a chat with May. He also needs to make the Brexit voting "free" for Labour MPs, many of whom are scared that defying their leader will have them deselected by Corbyn's mates in Momentum.



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: pronto

In relation to Gibraltar and the Falklands I doubt it but wouldn't rule it out.
Nigel doesn't have a party so can't do anything other than offer advice , in my opinion he should have been given a role in the negotiations .



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: pronto

I think that having Corbyn negotiating UKs future would be a worry. After all, he believes in a united Ireland. If there is a General Election and Labour won, then it'll be a disaster. However, there's no guarantee Labour would win an election. Corbyn needs to man up and have a chat with May. He also needs to make the Brexit voting "free" for Labour MPs, many of whom are scared that defying their leader will have them deselected by Corbyn's mates in Momentum.



thanks mate and where does labour stand on the new ballistic submarine build
down here labour always gut the services and the libs make believe they are all for defence
oh and the ADF aust. defence force
is often called the almost defenceless force these days

edit on 19-1-2019 by pronto because: cant bloodywell spell



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: pronto

In relation to Gibraltar and the Falklands I doubt it but wouldn't rule it out.
Nigel doesn't have a party so can't do anything other than offer advice , in my opinion he should have been given a role in the negotiations .


rgr tks
is it too late for nigel to startup and
how does the average bloke feel about the rock and the Falklands issue



posted on Jan, 20 2019 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767
Hang on a minute! Homeless people a lot choose to live that lifestyle I have an ex colleague living on the streets of Manchester several of his friends have found him and took him home to help him get on his feet again but it’s not long till he says “thanks a lot but I want to go back” when asked why? he says he misses his friends. There is a night time economy in any city and a lot of homeless seem to enjoy the social scene.

Food banks! if your going to give food away guess what? people are going to take it. But they will all have smart phones and internet. I could go into many pubs around the area and buy food bank vouchers for a few quid.
Property prices! Have you been to the north of England lately house prices are low , most haven’t recovered from the credit crash.

Legal Aid sorry but it’s abused there are members of a grooming gang in prison convicted and had citizenship taken off them waiting to be deported and guess what have legal aid to fight the case. Not politics just bad management and abused.

The NHS is broken you could double the amount of money put into it and guess what you’d still be waiting in A&E for four hours. The problem is how its managed ask any consultant.

zero hour contracts! I’m on zero hours and guess what it suits me, as do most of my colleagues I’ve been offered a permanent position but turned it down as I’m happy as it is.

As for Corbyn in the past he’s sat down and talked with Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO and the provisional IRA yet he won’t sit down with the British PM hypocrite! Corbyns a self confessed Marxist if this country had a viable communist party then he would be leading that.

Politicians in general you can keep them the Brexit saga has finally proved what we all knew they are only in it for themselves next time I vote it’ll be for the Monster Raving Loony party or something as obscure.

You don’t speak for the majority!
edit on 20-1-2019 by redchad because: Spelling



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 05:09 AM
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a reply to: redchad


Hang on a minute! Homeless people a lot choose to live that lifestyle

They do not choose it " a lot " and those who do" choose" it do so, because the system has failed to provide them a safety net which works for them, to help them recover from mental illness, or protect them from the circumstances that drove them from their former lives in the first place. Sane people do not, unless there are no other choices available to them, go to the streets in their droves. Your misrepresentation qualifies as a result of its enormity, as a lie, and no number of anecdotes you can possibly bring to bare, will lend any validity what so ever to your claims.



Food banks! if your going to give food away guess what? people are going to take it. But they will all have smart phones and internet. I could go into many pubs around the area and buy food bank vouchers for a few quid.
Property prices! Have you been to the north of England lately house prices are low , most haven’t recovered from the credit crash.


Actually, no. If there is food to give away, guess what? Most people will not take it unless they could not get it any other way, and that is something you appear to fail to understand. I do not know whether that is because you have an amoral outlook on supply and demand, or whether you simply fail to properly understand the way of thinking that most of our proud citizens engage in, but we are not as a nation known for taking charity handouts, unless we are in dire need of them.

As for your ridiculous assertions about people who use food banks also having smart phones and internet connections, yes, they very well might have those things. And do you know what that means? Absolutely nothing. It has become impossible for a person to access all the services and the information necessary to communicate with local government or national government, without the facility to use the internet in many locations nationally, as a direct result of the government closing so many of its publicly accessible locations in towns and cities across the nation, over the last decade. The necessity for people to have access to the information network is the fault of government, not the people, and I would thank you to keep the blame for that where it belongs, rather than insisting that people who had nothing to do with those decisions, be affected by them, just so that you can feel validated in your flawed understanding of the meaning of poverty in a modern nation like ours.

As for smart phones, yes, its necessary for a perfectly ordinary person, even a very poor person, to have adequate access to their data on the move these days, as a function of, again, decisions made by people outside the regular citizenry. A citizen who is in receipt of some kind of emergency assistance, or other "benefit", is normally expected to be available by telephone at all hours of the day, in case something changes with their claim or claims (read: in case the DWP try to screw them out of what they are entitled to). That means that a person must either remain at home and near to their computer (which, by your measure they should also not have) or be able to take their data on the move. It is simply not reasonable to expect the average person, leave alone the average person on some sort of benefit, to be able to manage their information without the assistance of some form of technology.




Legal Aid sorry but it’s abused there are members of a grooming gang in prison convicted and had citizenship taken off them waiting to be deported and guess what have legal aid to fight the case. Not politics just bad management and abused.


Its been abused you say? Well, by that token, lets stop paying tax as well, everyone at once, because after all, the taxation system has been thoroughly abused, such that companies which pay over 40 million pounds in bonuses have failed to pay any tax at all in about eight years, while your common or garden slave driven, over worked, under paid citizen has had to pay thousands in that time, despite their relative poverty. There is no logic or justice in the way you think about these things. Legal aid has absolutely been abused. But the answer to that is not to scrap the thing entirely, because if you do, you are then insisting that only the rich may have representation that has any quality whatsoever, and that situation will NOT be permitted in this country, and you had best learn to either like the fact that it won't, or put up with it in spite of your your discomfort with the situation. To put not to fine a point on it, if its to come down to a choice between ensuring that everyone gets a fair shake, regardless of their ability to pay their way, or pissing you off, sorry chap, but you really do not matter when compared with the shape of justice and the way it is applied to the nation as a whole.

Yes, there are a certain number of cases of abuse of the system. That simply means that the system needs to be improved, not done away with entirely. Which brings me to your next "point".



The NHS is broken you could double the amount of money put into it and guess what you’d still be waiting in A&E for four hours. The problem is how its managed ask any consultant.

Its interesting that you say that, because actually, if you ask any consultant for an in depth response about what they would like to see, with regards to correcting the flaws in the NHS, they will tell you that the issue starts at the University level, and that the first thing that MUST happen is that those seeking to train as doctors and nurses, should be enabled to do so without paying through the eye sockets for their training, and that EVERYONE who qualifies MUST be directly and immediately employed in their various roles in the health service, to correct the damage done by years and years of real terms cuts to staffing levels in hospitals, FOR A START! Further to that, most people who work in the NHS will also tell you that the locations they work at are underfunded when it comes to getting the equipment they need to provide a modern and effective service to those who require it, in all the locations where that service is required. For example, our local NHS Hospital is under threat of having a great deal of its current capacity to treat things like strokes and cancer, shipped out to a hospital further away, for absolutely NO good reason at all, other than to save a government whose PM is married to a man whose job it is to help scum dodge their taxes, a pittance of a sum. This is unacceptable. The damage that has been done to the NHS has been ideologically driven, and must be corrected.

My reply will continue below....



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 05:26 AM
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a reply to: redchad


zero hour contracts! I’m on zero hours and guess what it suits me, as do most of my colleagues I’ve been offered a permanent position but turned it down as I’m happy as it is.


Bully for you. But you, sir, are part of the minority in that regard, because the vast majority of people need jobs that have regular hours, either enough of them, or paid at a decent enough rate per hour, that they can successfully feed themselves, put a roof over their head, cover the bills and have a future, regardless of how lowly their position might be. Given that the average (and no, nothing that happens in the North is an indicator of normalcy, especially financially) person in this country is earning less than the cost of living, something which, even if it is not happening to you or affecting you, should concern you as a citizen, there is absolutely no reason to consider zero hours contracts appropriate, unless a given employee REQUESTS one, despite there being other, more solid terms available.


As for Corbyn in the past he’s sat down and talked with Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO and the provisional IRA yet he won’t sit down with the British PM hypocrite! Corbyns a self confessed Marxist if this country had a viable communist party then he would be leading that.

Yes, he sat down and actually tried to have a conversation, at times when everyone else was funding terrorists of a different sort, to counter the terrorists you speak of, a decidedly underhand, shady, dangerous, and ultimately flawed technique, which the last twenty years of foreign policy has proven to be flawed in the most uncompromising fashion. What do you know, the only politician to do all the things you mention... IS A DIPLOMAT! That is the first and foremost task of any leading politician, preventing all out war by arranging discussion, as opposed to demolition. Meanwhile, at the very same time as you deride Corbyn for sitting down with groups and trying to get them to come to terms, rather than shoot their problems away, the PM supports Saudi Arabia by permitting arms sales, so that they can fund terrorism by the back door, and pummel Yemen into a fine paste, using British sold weapons to do it, something that NO one agrees with. There is absolutely no way you can lambast Mr Corbyn for actually behaving like a diplomat, given that he was trying to stave off the last twenty years of violence and bloodshed that we have seen, by having those meetings. He is the sort of person that would rather NOT have two decades of for profit war, would rather NOT permit our intelligence services to smuggle arms and train "rebel groups" world wide to commit terrorism in an effort to legitimise more defence spending. And he is RIGHT to be that sort of person.



You don’t speak for the majority!

That is a staggering bit of irony, because you sir are not even IN the majority, if your views are truly as you have outlined above.




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