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Why is the wall an emergency?

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posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:47 PM
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originally posted by: dubiousatworst
reply to chr0naut

No, I am saying if the population is stable it allows for the average worker to see his paycheck grow rather than being forced downward due to too much available labor. An always growing population eventually hits a situation where there is a Tragedy of the commons due to limited resources.


Yeah, that would be true if it was. Average wages are actually rising is the US and have for the last 66 years, despite a growing population (perhaps even because of a growing population?). National Average Wage Index - US Department of Social Security


If figures you would use Wikipedia as a source on "decreased crime rates" among illegal immigrants. New flash, every single one of them by default is committing a crime.


They are all guilty of their location, but doesn't it seem a bit skewed that a country that prides itself on human freedom should take umbrage at someone who has done nothing wrong but stand on it's 'free' soil wishing to experience that freedom?

(which is apparently a right framed under the 1st Amendment where it grants the right that the people - specifically not just citizens, as enumerated in all the other Amendments - can legally assemble and present petition to government).




The four new studies they use in all of the articles are biased and use incomplete information, as "sanctuary cities" do not report on crime from illegal immigrants but rather report them as if they were citizens.

There are less crimes in the desert because there are less people in the desert, it is about the rate that the crime is being committed per capita.


The per capita crime rate is lower in sparsely populated areas, than it is in densely populated areas. Population density is a pressure to commit crime and provides enhanced opportunity. This factor negates simplistic statistical analyses.


I find it humorous that you use that to your argument's advantage, then go right on to completely ignoring it in your next point.

I am not suggesting that humans have a short attention span, I am suggesting that nearly the entirety of people make all of their decisions based on emotion rather than logic. That is a feature of human survival and evolution.


Stupidity is a force of nature - got it!
edit on 18/1/2019 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 10:19 PM
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originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: chr0naut

This is the way I see things. Every group is a continuum. On one end are very bright people, on the other, not so much. The goal should be to sort the wheat from the chaff, not just blindly import huge quantities indiscriminately then sort it out later.

Imagine you own a business. Would you try to get the best man for the job? Or hire a dozen people without even talking to them?


Yes a good executive always hires people who are cleverer and more skilled than they are.

This, however means that the guy at the top of the company is the stupidest person there - or they are a crap executive.



We need merit based immigration. The method of letting illegals in actually selects for criminals.


If they are let in, they aren't illegal.




With legal immigration, they are at least vetted to some degree. Ideally, we want to recruit honest people not drug gangs.

The system we have now is like the one that breaks the most rules and laws wins. Your methods reward them for gaming the system.


My methods?




posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 10:15 AM
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Why is it an emergency? Because Trump said so and his followers believe him. Where were this outspoken opinions on all the tragedies of immigration and drugs and assault and trafficking before Trump became President? How many threads on this site were created about needing to create a structure at the southern border? Almost none probably?

For Trump, it's a political thing. He wants movement on his campaign promise before 2020. For his followers, they actually believe it's a dire threat that needs immediate attention. Which is ironic, because many of those same people when you talk about mass shootings, will literally point out the # of people dying to those shootings, and compare them to car accidents, or murder rate, or drugs or whatever, and say it's not a big deal as people are making it. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Border security, drugs and immigration has always been a problem. But no more so than many other problems plaguing the nation. Immigration was conveniently ignored, since corporations were getting super cheap labor to pick tomatoes in Florida, or grapes in Napa. But now apparently we are all going to die if a wall isn't built IMMEDIATELY. It's ridiculous. They haven't even gone over other options. Wall or bust, apparently.



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: fleabit


Where were this outspoken opinions on all the tragedies of immigration and drugs and assault and trafficking before Trump became President? How many threads on this site were created about needing to create a structure at the southern border? Almost none probably?

I was complaining about the lack of security on the southern border since the 1980s. So were a lot of other people. The only reason no one posted a thread about it was, it wasn't going to get fixed before no matter what we said. Trump is the only President since Reagan to actually give a crap about it, and Congress will never care about it.

Hell, anyone who supports the wall is considered racist even today. Can anyone even imagine what would have happened under Obama's occupation? We'd have been kicked out of the country! Trump didn't convince me that we needed a wall... he agreed with me that we needed a wall. He gave me a voice that Obama tried to steal from me.

That dog don't hunt, sorry. You just don't rewrite what people have believed for years... make that a few decades... and complain about it because the people haven't had a voice. Oh, wait, you just did.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 03:31 PM
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whats funny is the wall will not stop anyone



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 03:41 PM
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Don’t lock my doors, and leave the keys in my utv and my zero turn. My car doesn’t have a place for a key so it just stays in my pocket. The only time I had a fence (a wall in rwnj speak) was to keep something in, namely a toddler. It’s seems that it’s hard for right wingers to understand that most of us don’t live in a world of fear. If they think a fence or a door lock is going to keep criminals out they are retarded. As we always said, they just keep an honest man honest. a reply to: lSkrewloosel



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 03:49 PM
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Haha, and no Reagan DID NOT want, advocate, or ask for a wall. Face it, you hypocrites are just dogs on leash. Trump says sit and you sit, trump wants a wall, you want a wall. If it wasn’t so sad it would be mighty funny. Sorry little buddy, you ain’t gettin no wall. You need to come to grips with that fact before you stroke out.

www.snopes.com...




a reply to: TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: soundguy
Don’t lock my doors, and leave the keys in my utv and my zero turn. My car doesn’t have a place for a key so it just stays in my pocket. The only time I had a fence (a wall in rwnj speak) was to keep something in, namely a toddler. It’s seems that it’s hard for right wingers to understand that most of us don’t live in a world of fear. If they think a fence or a door lock is going to keep criminals out they are retarded. As we always said, they just keep an honest man honest. a reply to: lSkrewloosel



You are a hero.

Broadcast the locations and where the keys to your vehicles are to the free loaders and druggies in a 10 mile radius of your house. Mention where your wife keeps her jewelry and where your tools and spare cash are and always leave those doors unlocked and refrigerator stocked because you are so cool.

A border barrier directs people to other places just like your neighbors locked doors may direct people to your open house.



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 04:12 PM
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There is actually good reason to consider it a threat to national security, if not our own than Mexico's: the Cartels.


An insecure border means that we need the Cartels to voluntarily choose not to help terrorists.

We get that from them right now because they don't want us to classify them as terrorists and start sending their agents to Guantanimo Bay.

So, right now that's all they are asking.

What if tomorrow they start asking for more? What if they start asking us to release members of their organization who have been properly convicted of crimes?

Do we really want them to be able to hold that much over us?
edit on 19-1-2019 by bloodymarvelous because: rearrange to be shorter.

edit on 19-1-2019 by bloodymarvelous because: grammar



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 07:06 PM
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The wall is just pulp fiction to cover the issue of a commoner in America not losing his mind, they want it to happen so their deceptive illusion can be maintained and they are holding the government hostage. Let's protest before Trump martyrs the second coming.



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: soundguy

Congratulations! You just proved Snopes is complete BS. Wanna try for Buzzfeedfake now?

I was there, hoss.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: Superunknown528
The wall is just pulp fiction to cover the issue of a commoner in America not losing his mind, they want it to happen so their deceptive illusion can be maintained and they are holding the government hostage. Let's protest before Trump martyrs the second coming.




That's a valid point, people are clearly unhappy and it seems many are clinging to this wall like comfort blanket, after all the illusion of happiness and safety is better than nothing at all.



posted on Jan, 19 2019 @ 08:46 PM
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The nation could be locked down under martial law after he declares the wall a national emergency.



posted on Jan, 20 2019 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: soundguy

Maybe have a think where alot of people live instead of where you live. Not everyone has the luxury of feeling that secure in their areas.



posted on Jan, 20 2019 @ 03:03 PM
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originally posted by: njord

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Anyone that thinks a wall will solve either the drug issues or human trafficking is just plain silly. Sure I get it will stop some, but I guarantee,
absolutely guarantee we could build a wall to the sun and we will still have drug and human trafficking issues in America.


I agree

and I cringe whenever the opioid crisis is brought up with the claim that 90% of the heroin sold in the U.S. comes from Mexico.

Afghanistan is the world's largest producer of heroin, by far. Pulling out of that war would do more to stop the heroin from flowing in than a wall could ever achieve.


Some of the folks we are/were targeting in Afghanistan had gone a long ways towards eradicating the crop. We go there and now they have record production. You have to be an idiot to not put together 2+2.



posted on Jan, 20 2019 @ 09:54 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: dubiousatworst
reply to chr0naut

No, I am saying if the population is stable it allows for the average worker to see his paycheck grow rather than being forced downward due to too much available labor. An always growing population eventually hits a situation where there is a Tragedy of the commons due to limited resources.


Yeah, that would be true if it was. Average wages are actually rising is the US and have for the last 66 years, despite a growing population (perhaps even because of a growing population?). National Average Wage Index - US Department of Social Security



Those numbers are clearly not adjusted for inflation.

The quoted annual wage for 1951 is 2799 dollars per year. Nobody could plausibly live on that. You'd have to be paying less than 233 dollars per month in rent (and getting your food for free from somewhere?)




originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DanDanDat



What's complicated about building a wall?


I've gotta agree. People talk like they never saw a wall before.

It's not some new Nazi invention.


The actual building of the wall isn't complicated. What is, is where they want to build it. Some of the terrain on the border is so burly that construction supplies would most likely have to be helicoptered in, which would be a big/expensive undertaking, let alone getting the heavy equipment there to actually build it.


They would need to build roads to those locations first.

Without a road, how do you patrol it? And without patrolling it, what use is it?



posted on Jan, 20 2019 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: dubiousatworst
reply to chr0naut

No, I am saying if the population is stable it allows for the average worker to see his paycheck grow rather than being forced downward due to too much available labor. An always growing population eventually hits a situation where there is a Tragedy of the commons due to limited resources.


Yeah, that would be true if it was. Average wages are actually rising is the US and have for the last 66 years, despite a growing population (perhaps even because of a growing population?). National Average Wage Index - US Department of Social Security



Those numbers are clearly not adjusted for inflation.

The quoted annual wage for 1951 is 2799 dollars per year. Nobody could plausibly live on that. You'd have to be paying less than 233 dollars per month in rent (and getting your food for free from somewhere?)


Sure, then adjust them for inflation. Wages still rise, on average.

Inflation is necessary for return on investment, too. Steady inflation is a sign of economic growth.



originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DanDanDat



What's complicated about building a wall?


I've gotta agree. People talk like they never saw a wall before.

It's not some new Nazi invention.


The actual building of the wall isn't complicated. What is, is where they want to build it. Some of the terrain on the border is so burly that construction supplies would most likely have to be helicoptered in, which would be a big/expensive undertaking, let alone getting the heavy equipment there to actually build it.


They would need to build roads to those locations first.

Without a road, how do you patrol it? And without patrolling it, what use is it?


You might use 4wd vehicles. Then all you need is a bulldozed trail.

If you had to build a road to build and to patrol a wall, you'd also have to maintain the road to prevent it simply being eroded away. So there is more than an initial cost and there is more than just a wall that has to be part of the package.

What with the pictures of people climbing over the existing wall, it calls into question the value of a wall in achieving the outcome of border security.



posted on Jan, 21 2019 @ 09:16 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: dubiousatworst
reply to chr0naut

No, I am saying if the population is stable it allows for the average worker to see his paycheck grow rather than being forced downward due to too much available labor. An always growing population eventually hits a situation where there is a Tragedy of the commons due to limited resources.


Yeah, that would be true if it was. Average wages are actually rising is the US and have for the last 66 years, despite a growing population (perhaps even because of a growing population?). National Average Wage Index - US Department of Social Security



Those numbers are clearly not adjusted for inflation.

The quoted annual wage for 1951 is 2799 dollars per year. Nobody could plausibly live on that. You'd have to be paying less than 233 dollars per month in rent (and getting your food for free from somewhere?)


Sure, then adjust them for inflation. Wages still rise, on average.

Inflation is necessary for return on investment, too. Steady inflation is a sign of economic growth.


Inflation isn't a sign of anything, good or bad. It's a choice made by the Federal Reserve to either issue more money or not to issue more money as the economy grows, or money goes missing.

But without steady inflation, there is less incentive for people to invest their money. If you put it under a mattress or something, it will gradually lose its value. Wealthy people are basically compelled to invest.






originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DanDanDat



What's complicated about building a wall?


I've gotta agree. People talk like they never saw a wall before.

It's not some new Nazi invention.


The actual building of the wall isn't complicated. What is, is where they want to build it. Some of the terrain on the border is so burly that construction supplies would most likely have to be helicoptered in, which would be a big/expensive undertaking, let alone getting the heavy equipment there to actually build it.


They would need to build roads to those locations first.

Without a road, how do you patrol it? And without patrolling it, what use is it?


You might use 4wd vehicles. Then all you need is a bulldozed trail.

If you had to build a road to build and to patrol a wall, you'd also have to maintain the road to prevent it simply being eroded away. So there is more than an initial cost and there is more than just a wall that has to be part of the package.

What with the pictures of people climbing over the existing wall, it calls into question the value of a wall in achieving the outcome of border security.



Anything you build will need maintenance, yes. But in the special case of a wall, that's kind of a good thing. Maintaining it means you're patrolling it, getting a close look at it.

If we build a road along the entire length of the border, then it's easier to get border patrol agents and vehicles to every location along it.

Having that is probably more valuable than the wall itself.

But while we're there, we might as well put a wall there too. If nothing else, it slows down people wishing to cross, while they look for a way through and/or over. They'll leave more visible tracks on the ground.



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 01:12 AM
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originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

Those numbers are clearly not adjusted for inflation.

The quoted annual wage for 1951 is 2799 dollars per year. Nobody could plausibly live on that. You'd have to be paying less than 233 dollars per month in rent (and getting your food for free from somewhere?)



$2799 sounds about right. In 1951, my parents paid $21 per month for rent.



posted on Jan, 24 2019 @ 01:25 AM
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If that is true then, after we adjust for inflation, wages today are quite a bit worse than they were then.

Today we certainly don't live in a nation where the average person can make rent using less than 10% of their salary.

edit on 24-1-2019 by bloodymarvelous because: fix my math

edit on 24-1-2019 by bloodymarvelous because: fix my wording



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