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Why is the wall an emergency?

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posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: narrator

Let me make sure I am understanding your post...

We should never lock our doors because good trespassers might want to do something nice for us and bad trespassers will get in anyway. Is that right?

Do you need a nap or something?

TheRedneck




posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

My reply was tinfoil tongue in cheek.


Your post is fact and very well formatted. Awesome reply mate. You owned the thread.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: narrator

Let me make sure I am understanding your post...

We should never lock our doors because good trespassers might want to do something nice for us and bad trespassers will get in anyway. Is that right?

Do you need a nap or something?

TheRedneck


No, I was making the point that a lot of people that would be immigrating to America just want a job to support their families. I was drifting back and forth between the house analogy and the actual border. Reading it now, I did a poor job of splitting the 2 in that paragraph.

What I meant in plain English: The wall is only going to stop people that want to get here for a better life. It's not going to stop actual criminals in any meaningful way.
edit on 18-1-2019 by narrator because: spelling



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: narrator

Let me make sure I am understanding your post...

We should never lock our doors because good trespassers might want to do something nice for us and bad trespassers will get in anyway. Is that right?

Do you need a nap or something?

TheRedneck


Sounds weird but a lot of people here leave their car doors unlocked intentionally, rather than get their windows smashed.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: narrator

OK, I was hoping I read it wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

I disagree that the 'bad guys' will just get in anyway. If we can't keep terrorists, murderers, gang members, etc. out, then we do not have a country and nothing else matters. We might as well all just go back to vigilante justice. Maybe a few will slip through the cracks, but that's an awful lot better than having bad guys on every corner.

And yes, we want the hard workers and those trying for a better life. We get them in here every day. The United States of America already allows in more legal immigrants than anywhere else in the world, many of which get the privilege of becoming citizens. I'm proud of that. However, these legal immigrants go through a very intensive process to become citizens, and I don't think it's right to make some go through that and let others in with no questions asked. That just sounds unfair on the most basic level. It's like someone waiting in line in the cold for four hours to see a movie preview, then someone else just shows up as the office opens and cuts line.

Why have a line?

That's the difference between legal and illegal immigration. One is desirable and good, while the other may be very bad. It's not a hard thing to differentiate between the two. As a matter of fact, a wall will do that for us, simply by making it easier to come in through a port of entry. Really, is that asking too much?

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

yeah well he wouldn't have if Russia didn't help him cheat soooooo. 

and what is different is we've seen what a trump presidency means and no one will vote him in again....


That's a joke right? You can't really believe that.

Everyone knew exactly what a Trump Presidency would be before the 2016 elections. His personality wasn't hidden, it was on full display.

We knew what a Trump Presidency would be like and he still won. If you can't even accept this simple fact all your other opions should be help in serious doubt.


And so what if Russia did help him win? Is Russia going to disappear before the 2020 elections?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: DanDanDat

I like your answer the best.




Of course the answer to my question is because we have a government full of leaders who care more about themselves than they do about solving issues and working for the American people


I do question this:



The other more important issues you mentioned are very complicated and have many tendrils in our society; it will take decades of consecutive efforts to solve them. We can not put every thing else on hold until they are solved.


It appears this issue is just as complicated. It has shut down the government for longer than it's been shut down before. We are putting everything else on hold, aren't we?



This "wall" issue hasn't shut down the government because it is complicated ... it has shut down the government because our self serving ruling class think they can score political points by having the government shutdown down over this issue.

What's complicated about building a wall? Humans have been doing it for ages. Expense really isnt an issue ether our government has lost more money under the couch than this.

The government is shutdown because thats what our politicians want.

Even if we want to pretend the President is a man child who can't be reasoned with ... he doesn't need to be reasoned with. House Democrats can negotiate with Senate Republicans and cut Trump out completely... no one is even trying.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat



What's complicated about building a wall?


I've gotta agree. People talk like they never saw a wall before.

It's not some new Nazi invention.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Illumimasontruth

Please provide sources here. Last I checked there are more people that are illegal by entering the country legally and overstaying, not coming through the Mexican border.

Also, what statistics of crime is performed by illegal aliens versus people domestically. Yes there is crime performed by illegals, but show some proof that this is indeed an 'emergency' by backing it up with numbers rather than hyperbole.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: DanDanDat



What's complicated about building a wall?


I've gotta agree. People talk like they never saw a wall before.

It's not some new Nazi invention.


The actual building of the wall isn't complicated. What is, is where they want to build it. Some of the terrain on the border is so burly that construction supplies would most likely have to be helicoptered in, which would be a big/expensive undertaking, let alone getting the heavy equipment there to actually build it.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: dubiousatworst




a reply to: JAGStorm Because it helps with nearly every one of those points you mentioned.


That's exactly it!

People keep focusing on "It's not going to FIX...." In their eyes, if it doesn't fix the issue 100% then it's pointless. There is no complete fix by doing one thing. It takes multiple solutions to "FIX" this issue. Right now, we want to plug the big holes in the boat while also focusing on the little holes. Only they see that we want the wall. They don't care that there are other priorities involved. They hyper focus on only one thing at a time.

I've come to the conclusion that the democratic side of the government is too narrow minded and narrow sighted to do any good in this country. They never focus on the bigger picture. They would rather let everything unravel and chaos ensue than to take any initiative because they're afraid they'll lose their voters by making some of them unhappy.


Power... Not production. Not solution. Plain old simple filthy power is all they want.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: JAGStorm

Nearly 1,000 caravan migrants start process of entering Mexico from Guatemala

I know. Hardly sounds like news anymore. There are so many of them.


What, in a country of only 320 million people! You'll be overrun and murdered in your beds!




You were just on here the other day saying the US economy is hurting. So based on that shouldn’t we build the wall and save over a $100 billion/year? You people on the left contradict yourselves nonstop.


Why would a leftist be concerned about the economy? Leftists oppose capitalism and monetarism.



Perhaps a fair analysis would indicate that, with a combined US debt of $27 trillion dollars, saving a bit of pocket change here and there won't help.

Also, more reasonable estimates have put the true annual cost to the US of illegal immigration, to between $1.9 billion and $19.3 billion.

The Congressional Budget Office, in 2007, concluded that most of the estimates determined that illegal immigrants impose a net cost to state and local governments but “that impact is most likely modest.” and concluded that “no agreement exists as to the size of, or even the best way of measuring, that cost on a national level.”

Cost of Illegal Immigrants - Fact Check.org

edit on 18/1/2019 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: chr0naut

Really. What's a few thousand more on top of the 1 million every year for decades? Right?




Exacxtly right.

... and how dilute is that 1 million (actually it is way less than that now, the number has been declining for a while) into the 328 million of the existing population (with all their debt, fiscal need, crime and psycho-social problems)?

edit on 18/1/2019 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut

This is the way I see things. Every group is a continuum. On one end are very bright people, on the other, not so much. The goal should be to sort the wheat from the chaff, not just blindly import huge quantities indiscriminately then sort it out later.

Imagine you own a business. Would you try to get the best man for the job? Or hire a dozen people without even talking to them?

We need merit based immigration. The method of letting illegals in actually selects for criminals. With legal immigration, they are at least vetted to some degree. Ideally, we want to recruit honest people not drug gangs.

The system we have now is like the one that breaks the most rules and laws wins. Your methods reward them for gaming the system.
edit on 18-1-2019 by toms54 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: lSkrewloosel

False Equivalence.

Unless you mean more like we are Mr. Speilman's Keeper, in the Pianist - pocketing the money, schmoozing the sources, ghosting the client ... all the while we have this statute that has 'Bring Us Your Huddled Masses...' thus advertising our false nobleness oblige. Did I say that out loud! I kid.... What I say?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 05:36 PM
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originally posted by: Newt22
a reply to: lSkrewloosel

"all the while we have this statute that has 'Bring Us Your Huddled Masses...' "

It's a poem, not a statute. not a law. Did you mean statue or statute? Freudian slip much?

We got to take that stupid poem off that statue.
edit on 18-1-2019 by toms54 because: formatting



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: JAGStorm

Then why allow more to import themselves? Why not make sure we're doing our best to only import those who could theoretically support themselves so that we can concetrate on our tired, poor, huddled masses?

Nope ... let's just let more and more bring themselves into a system already critically overburdened.

I see the logic of your point. /sarc



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 08:23 PM
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a reply to: narrator


Some of the terrain on the border is so burly that construction supplies would most likely have to be helicoptered in, which would be a big/expensive undertaking, let alone getting the heavy equipment there to actually build it.

And those places won't get a full wall. Trump has already said that. Some will need a fence... some won't need anything as natural barriers do the same job.

The point is not to "build a wall." The point is to place some sort of physical barrier between us and those who want to take advantage of us.

Take a look at El Paso and Ciudad Juarez, two sister cities that sit across the Rio Grande from each other. Ciudad Juarez is listed by Wikipedia as having the 20th highest murder rate in the world, 56.16 homicides per 100,000 population, in 2017 mainly due to gang violence. El Paso is rated as "below average crime" by US News and World Report. How can that be? Maybe because they have a barrier fence... a "wall."

Now, some would like to dispute this... Factcheck.org will tell you that the wall has nothing to do with the crime difference because the crime rate was low even before the barrier was built. Not true. Wikipedia tells us the wall was begun in 1994, predating the Secure Fence Act that Factcheck.org focuses on. Tighter border enforcement was also employed. So looking at Factcheck.org's own graphic, what does it tell us?

Looks to me like their violent crime started dropping around that same time frame.

El Paso needed a wall. San Diego has a wall. But I seriously doubt there will be a wall along the Big Bend area. It's just too hard to cross already. As it is, authorities regularly find the remains of illegal entry attemptees along the border, so it's fairly safe to assume that difficult areas would produce more such results and discourage crossing attempts without a wall.

People need to stop taking these extreme positions. We're talking about simply a physical barrier along the unprotected areas between ports of entry to encourage crossers to enter there instead on if the middle of a desert. It's not the Great Wall of China, it's not a solid barricade that forever stops any relationship between us and Mexico, it's not intended to stop every single person who tries to cross into the US, it is not intended to replace CBP or technological solutions... it is an impediment to unimpeded and unrestrained border crossing. That's why it is the only solution to the present problems along the border. Unimpeded and unsecured borders are commonly referred to as "open orders."

"Against a wall" is "for open borders." By definition.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:19 PM
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a reply to: JAGStorm

It isn't, never has been. It's just politics. He used it as a ruse to get the populist vote that got him elected. If it was at all important or an emergency Trump would have done an EO or sorted the whole thing within his first month - this is just smoke and mirrors to distract from the recent election.

Dems have taken minor control of the senate, Trump/Republicans are throwing a hissy fit, closing government and trying to make It look like an emergency to distract from the reality they're facing.

Trump is a good salesman but he's not a total idiot, he knows a wall is completely inefective, expensive and a cheap slogan similar to MAGA.

He's spent the last two weeks trying to say he's not to blame for the shutdown, despite saying he took complete ownership of the government shutdown repeatedly the week before then (a shock and total first as far as I'm aware) he'll cancel the government shutdown in 10 - 14 days and stop mentioning the wall ever again (probably mention Iran or North Korea again) - it's disturbingly common behaviour from politicians.

In precis - throw enough chit, some sticks. It's even more effective when the onse being attacked are minority groups - simple numbers game.
edit on 18-1-2019 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: bastion


Dems have taken minor control of the senate

Democrats lost seats in the Senate in 2018. They still have enough seats to avoid cloture, but they haven't "taken" anything.

TheRedneck







 
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