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Why is the wall an emergency?

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posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 07:11 AM
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Why is the wall an emergency? Because the border has been largely ignored for decades.

The US-Mexico border is 2000 miles of mostly desert, a large part of it following the Rio Grande. Now, most people think of a river as a large body of water that is difficult to cross, and that's true in much of the country. The Mississippi River, the Tennessee River, the Ohio River, all make quite formidable natural barriers. The Rio Grande, not so much.

Sure, in some places it looks like this:

But in others, it's not quite so wide:

In still others, it's not so rough:

And in still others, it's dry much of the year:

In other words, that natural barrier really isn't much of a barrier at all. It's just a convenient place to put the border line.

There are 48 official crossing locations between the US and Mexico, where there are actual check points and security systems in place. 48, along 2000 miles. That means on average there is 40 miles between official crossing locations. Those 40 miles are more often than not simply stretches of desert, some identifiable by a river bed that ranges from a raging river to a dry flat open area. The rest has no natural barriers; just sand on one side and sand on the other side in an unbroken continuum of desert. A few spots have fences, but even those fences are tattered and cut in areas so they offer no real resistance for anyone wanting to cross. It is literally as simple to cross most of the border as it is to walk across a yard.

CBP patrols the border, yes. But it can take an hour (sometimes more) for a patrol to make a circuit of the section of the border they have to patrol. Now, imagine if you needed to cross an open area maybe 100 yards long, and had to avoid hourly police patrols... could you do it? Of course!

So we have people illegally crossing into the country and have had for many years now. Why wouldn't they? Some are poor folks looking for a chance to make a better life; some are criminals running from the law in their own country; some are human traffickers dragging their cargo with them to sell them off to the highest bidder; some are gang members; some are terrorists from countries not even in this Hemisphere. We really have no idea how many of which type are entering at any time, because we can't come close to catching even a reasonable percentage of them. For every truck full of illegal immigrants we intercept, there could be 100 trucks that made it through, or 10,000 people on foot. We simply don't know. All we can do is guess.

Once inside the US and safely far from the border, illegal aliens can locate family members that are already here, or simply go to sanctuary cities. They can get day jobs from local unscrupulous businesses... they may pay peanuts to us, but to an illegal alien it's a lot more than they can get elsewhere. They're also hard to track down... these day jobs do not withhold tax or report hirings... they simply pick the illegals up, let them work a day, hand them money, and pretend they did it all.

Even companies that try to go through the legal process have problems. Many of the coyotes who are well paid with life savings to help with the crossing can provide Social Security cards and IDs, either from dead or nonexistent citizens. If they show those documents at a job interview, they get hired... legally from the view of the company they hire on with.

Even if they are caught crossing the border, it's not a big problem. They have no ID, so CBP has no idea who they are. They give a fake name, and ask for asylum... it does not matter if they are truly fleeing prosecution or not. Just asking requires them to be given legal assistance and a hearing before an immigration judge. Since the border is constantly being crossed, the number of judges can't keep up, so sometimes the alien must wait weeks, months, occasionally over a year, before that hearing. Before Trump, they were simply allowed to go on their way on a simple promise they would show up at their hearing date. When they don't show up, there's no way to trace them back down, because they don't give their real name and don't care about our legal process.

So now they are living in the country, quietly, illegally. So what's the big deal?

For starters, most who are not criminals are poor and have no real trade skills. The only jobs they can get are manual labor jobs. So when they get hurt or sick, they do not have the money for medical help... that means you and I pay for it with higher insurance rates and higher prices. If they have ID sufficient for a job, they are eligible for financial assistance should they lose their job, and they have an incentive for losing their job: they can make more at day jobs while drawing assistance than they can at a normal job.

Their kids go to school here... not an issue as far as I am concerned, except that they don't speak English and their parents don't consider speaking English to be important. They didn't come here to be part of the country; they came here to make a living. So schools have to have interpreters and remedial English classes just to communicate with the kids. That costs money that could be used for Americans.

And that's the 'non-criminals.' MS-13 members are busy looting, extorting, raping, attacking.... terrorists are busy planning their next attack... criminals are busy looking for an easy score. And every year that the border remains unsecured, more people come here, because word gets around... especially with those coyotes promoting the US as some sort of paradise for illegal aliens so they can make more sales.

That's why it's an emergency. It should have been stopped back in the 1980s, but Congress refused it then too.

TheRedneck




posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 07:13 AM
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a reply to: Gothmog

because the problem is not a bad as tu-rump wants you to believe... He is already starting with oh no there's more coming....
Needs to keep you scared and shaking.
There never was the problem that he tried to make it out to be.
He has no clue... only knows how to get people emotionally riled up.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 07:21 AM
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a reply to: JAGStorm

Can you explain to me why pretty much every single person in congress who currently claims they absolutely, no way, no how can bear to think of a wall and increased border security for 5bill were all for it not even 10 years ago?

The fact of the matter is that unchecked border crossings are a humitarian crisis on a level most of us don't even know about.

Everyone knows about the two children who died after the border patrol finally picked them up. Do you hear about the 100+ bodies that the Yuma County sheriff alone finds each year just laying out in the desert having attempted illegal crossing? I'll bet you don't. What about the more than 1,000 rescues the border patrol has to make of people just dumped in the middle of nowhere, with nothing by Coyotes who have taken their money and can do that because there is no effective border check? I'll bet you don't.

But everyone knows about those two kids because that was super convenient to know about.

Everyone complains about the rising costs of health care or the ineffectiveness of our public education. Do you hear about how we have an increasing number of people using those two systems who do not speak English because they came over the Southern border unchecked and now just use those systems because they cannot be denied. It's their right. So teachers have to try to teach children who don't just teach Spanish because it isn't just Spanish speaking kids who come over that border (in fact, border patrol has an acronym for them OTM - Other Than Mexican).

At the same time, employers hire them under the table to avoid all the myriad extra taxes and fees a legal employee brings with him or her.

This effectively depresses both wages and jobs for legal workers and hurts the poorest US citizens the most.

The whole thing costs us far more in terms of money than effective border security and enforcement ever would.

And your elected officials would rather spend far, far more than what is being asked on foreign aid -- a program that basically sends money to poor nations like the crapholes that produce these illegals to change nothing in those nations because the money never actually goes where it's needed and does what we're told it's supposed to.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 08:04 AM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Gothmog

because the problem is not a bad as tu-rump wants you to believe... He is already starting with oh no there's more coming....
Needs to keep you scared and shaking.
There never was the problem that he tried to make it out to be.
He has no clue... only knows how to get people emotionally riled up.


Would you feel the same if you had a family member killed by an illegal or you could no longer make a living at a your job as a direct result of illegal immigration?

These are real issues many Americans are facing. Do they not matter to you? Do you seriously not care or does it only matter to you if YOU are directly effected?

Interested in a honest answer.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask




Would more than pay for the wall and put money back in our pockets....... But no.....its not about all the virtue signaling.....its not about anything else other than just opposing TRUMP......


I am not opposed to Trump, and you didn't answer the question. Why is the wall an emergency when other just as important things are? Why does it take #1 government shutting down priority?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Thats a good question.......you tell me why Pelosi and the others are balking and stalling for 5 billion dollars, which ammonts to .77 cents on the dollar for a wall?

Especially when we spend 155 billion on illlgals THAT WE KNOW OF.....

When if the wall only stopped 20% a year it would save us tens of billions.....weird......

Would more than pay for the wall and put money back in our pockets.......

But no.....its not about all the virtue signaling.....its not about anything else other than just opposing TRUMP......

The dems spend quadruple that a year on bs .......

Please save us the virtue signaling......



Yea the F'ing dems spending money and driving the deficit to the highest its ever been.....oh hang on lemme backtrack, that would be the Republicans running the deficit to the highest it's ever been...



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

I like your answer the best.




Of course the answer to my question is because we have a government full of leaders who care more about themselves than they do about solving issues and working for the American people


I do question this:



The other more important issues you mentioned are very complicated and have many tendrils in our society; it will take decades of consecutive efforts to solve them. We can not put every thing else on hold until they are solved.


It appears this issue is just as complicated. It has shut down the government for longer than it's been shut down before. We are putting everything else on hold, aren't we?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko




At the same time, employers hire them under the table to avoid all the myriad extra taxes and fees a legal employee brings with him or her.


Many, many politicians on both side have been caught using illegal immigrant employees. There are laws against using illegal immigrant but it is not enforced. Just like many of the drugs coming through legal ports of entry by buying off guards etc.




unchecked border crossings are a humitarian crisis on a level most of us don't even know about


No need to go to the border for a humanitarian crisis, it is happening in so many of our states. Just go to Florida and look at the homeless population.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:27 AM
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Every country has crime. Every country has costs.

Crimes committed by people who legally should not be in the country CAN be prevented.

If it would save even one life, shouldn't we do it?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:28 AM
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Every country has crime. Every country has costs.

Crimes committed by people who legally should not be in the country CAN be prevented.

If it would save even one life, shouldn't we do it?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:32 AM
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originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: JAGStorm

Why don't you leave your doors and windows open at your home for a week. While you are out and inside the property. You will see Why its an emergency when you get people entering your property to do whatever they want to it.

America is your home and the boarder are the walls to your house. You wouldn't let strangers into your house so why let them into your country unless its done legally ?

Plus if trump don't do it. No one will.





Someone, in your family who lives with you, breaks everything in your home. You have to replace it.

Someone illegally enters your home and breaks everything. Now you call the police and have an investigation and have insurance replace your items.

Why? the same crime was committed. Just one was committed by someone who wasn't supposed to be there.

Build the damn wall and enforce border security.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I think they want it not for a “wall” of steel slats but for actual border security. Also, it is a negotiation point. If Trump would put something on the table like “ border security better than a wall” and allow proper processing of asylum claims Or protection for DACA recipients, we could have a win-win. Trump doesn’t seem to want a win-win. He is stuck on WALL or NOTHING.

Ugh. It’s a mess. People (Republicans) have apparently tried talking to him about negotiating something and he won’t budge.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:49 AM
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originally posted by: jjkenobi
Every country has crime. Every country has costs.

Crimes committed by people who legally should not be in the country CAN be prevented.

If it would save even one life, shouldn't we do it?


We should have the most effective form of border control. Would you agree?



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:50 AM
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The situation at the border has been considered a crisis, does that count as an emergency?

Remember, before they were against it they were all for it;

youtu.be...


Media had no problem calling it a border 'crisis' in 2014 under Obama

www.google.com...= true

www.google.com...

Obama Asks for $3.7 Billion to Aid Border



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 09:51 AM
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“If you build it they will come”

Building the wall will only make the problem worse. It’ll subconsciously build the idea that there is something better on the other side. One day it will be abandoned and become a symbol of how we as Americans tend to overthink things to the point of complication and confusion. Sometimes we do ourselves a disservice by trying to protect and shelter our children and ourselves instead of just welcoming the hardships we have to endure. If we created conduits that were diligent and thurough about security and opened our borders hard working law abiding people, and made the border easier to traverse, more like the northern one, we would probably have a much better relationship with our southern neighbors.

One day we will realise that it should be a human right to be able to move and live anywhere on this earth that you desire. Until then we’re just complicating matters and causing unnecessary distractions.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: ADVISOR
The situation at the border has been considered a crisis, does that count as an emergency?

Remember, before they were against it they were all for it;

youtu.be...


Media had no problem calling it a border 'crisis' in 2014 under Obama

www.google.com...= true

www.google.com...
Obama Asks for $3.7 Billion to Aid Border


Thank you for those links, very interesting.


"Obama Asks For $3.7 Billion To Aid Border But What We Really Need Is Comprehensive Immigration Reform"
"To be sure, the Republicans bear much of the blame in this regard.

But as I have argued many times before, throwing blame around will get us nowhere. It won’t bring a comprehensive resolution and it most certainly won’t help the children waiting in detention centers.
It’s time to put the partisanship behind us so that we can secure the border and get some real immigration reform."

So basically, we probably do need a wall/border (which i've already agreed with, but it isn't an emergency) but BOTH democrats and republicans want to be seen as the one that "solved" the issue, but neither side will ever let that happen, and neither side will work together to get it done as it will be seen as a win for the other side, a tangible physical win.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to chr0naut

No, I am saying if the population is stable it allows for the average worker to see his paycheck grow rather than being forced downward due to too much available labor. An always growing population eventually hits a situation where there is a Tragedy of the commons due to limited resources.

If figures you would use Wikipedia as a source on "decreased crime rates" among illegal immigrants. New flash, every single one of them by default is committing a crime. The four new studies they use in all of the articles are biased and use incomplete information, as "sanctuary cities" do not report on crime from illegal immigrants but rather report them as if they were citizens.

There are less crimes in the desert because there are less people in the desert, it is about the rate that the crime is being committed per capita. I find it humorous that you use that to your argument's advantage, then go right on to completely ignoring it in your next point.

I am not suggesting that humans have a short attention span, I am suggesting that nearly the entirety of people make all of their decisions based on emotion rather than logic. That is a feature of human survival and evolution.


edit on 18-1-2019 by dubiousatworst because: for what ever reason the reply option didn't work.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: JAGStorm

Why don't you leave your doors and windows open at your home for a week. While you are out and inside the property. You will see Why its an emergency when you get people entering your property to do whatever they want to it.

America is your home and the boarder are the walls to your house. You wouldn't let strangers into your house so why let them into your country unless its done legally ?

Plus if trump don't do it. No one will.





Someone, in your family who lives with you, breaks everything in your home. You have to replace it.

Someone illegally enters your home and breaks everything. Now you call the police and have an investigation and have insurance replace your items.

Why? the same crime was committed. Just one was committed by someone who wasn't supposed to be there.

Build the damn wall and enforce border security.


Well, in that scenario, it's better to have your stuff broken illegally, because insurance will pay for it.

ETA: Not an argument either way, just saying.
edit on 18-1-2019 by narrator because: ETA



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: JAGStorm

Why don't you leave your doors and windows open at your home for a week. While you are out and inside the property. You will see Why its an emergency when you get people entering your property to do whatever they want to it.

America is your home and the boarder are the walls to your house. You wouldn't let strangers into your house so why let them into your country unless its done legally ?

Plus if trump don't do it. No one will.



I haven't locked my doors for the better part of a decade, and my windows are wide open all summer long. Never had an unwanted person come inside.
There just aren't enough people who'd want to come into my place illegally for me to consider it an emergency.

Also, as we all know, someone who really wants to get into a house is going to, whether or not the doors and windows are locked. Sure, locks will stop the casual trespasser, but the true criminals, they'll get in regardless.

Maybe those casual trespassers are coming to offer to work for you for a wage you can afford to pay. Sweep your floors, clean your yard, stuff you really don't want to do and would love to pay someone to do.
The true criminals, they're coming to rob you blind, or hurt you, or your family, etc.

I think I'd rather let the casual trespassers in, and keep the criminals out. But, doors/windows/locks don't keep those people out. The wall won't either, because it isn't fully sealing the country off from the outside world. It's blocking what, 1/5th of the total US border off?

So, to sum up, the wall will keep out the people we'd probably want to welcome here, and not do anything to keep out the people we don't want.
But yea, let's spend billions on it. Makes perfect sense.



posted on Jan, 18 2019 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: AboveBoard


If Trump would put something on the table like “ border security better than a wall” and allow proper processing of asylum claims Or protection for DACA recipients, we could have a win-win. Trump doesn’t seem to want a win-win. He is stuck on WALL or NOTHING.

That's because nothing short of a border wall will work.

There is no such thing as infinite capacity. Legal cases take time and there's only 24 hours in a day. If we could process legitimate asylum cases, we could let legitimate asylum seekers into the country legally within a few days, but as it is there's so many applicants that it can take over a year. Activist judges have ruled that we cannot hold anyone until their case can be heard, so what do we do? Just let them go wherever and do whatever? What kind of security is that?

The reason we have so many applications is related to the same problem with Democrat activist judges. Trump had things sort of under control simply by demanding that anyone seeking asylum had to go through a port of entry. But then another activist judge struck that down. So here's the situation: Anyone, from anywhere, for any reason, can stand on the Mexican side of the border and they are out of reach of the CBP. The CBP cannot cross the border for any official reason whatsoever. As soon as that anyone steps foot inside the US, they can be apprehended by the CBP. But if they simply say the word "asylum," the CBP has to let them apply for asylum instead of arrest and deport them. Who wouldn't simply say a word to avoid arrest?

Once they say that word, they are allowed to jump into that same asylum line with thousands of other applicants, they cannot be deported, and they cannot be detained for the length of time that is required. So the only possibility is to let them go wherever and do whatever.

THAT IS NOT BORDER SECURITY. THAT IS OPEN BORDERS!

So the only option left to have any kind of border security is to put a physical barrier between them and us. They will then have to go to a port of entry where they won't be simply released into society without anyone knowing who they are or why they are coming here. Anything less is open borders, not because someone said it is, but because the convoluted mess we call an immigration system is so twisted that nothing else can be possible.

TheRedneck




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