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Trump prevents Pelosis overseas trip to Europe by restricting using US assets to fly hour before lea

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posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 11:20 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Wayfarer


There are just as many 'experts' who are arguing against a wall as for it, and is it any surprise that Trump only entertains advice for the wall (rather than for alternatives)?

A computer could poll 'experts' and arrive at a majority position. We don't use a computer to run the government; we use a person. There's a reason for that. Trump believes a wall is necessary, and based on my limited familiarity with the border, so do I.


Given the amount of hurdles to actually getting the wall built, and the likely long timescale, we can affect solid border security through a variety of alternative methodologies now with the same level of efficaciousness and also without claiming eminent domain and getting the whole boondoggle snarled in the courts for the next 2 decades.

I have never in my life seen a system such as you describe, wherein technology and patrols over a wide area are more efficient without a wall than with... and I work in technology. I understand what is possible and what is a pipe dream that denies the reality of physics. There is no technology I have ever heard of that will do what a wall will, and certainly no technology that will lose effectiveness if a wall is included as an extra layer of protection. There must be something to at least slow down the illegal immigrants as they run across the border, otherwise there is simply not sufficient time to get border patrol on the scene. All the sensors can do is watch... they can't apprehend anyone.

And, as has been explained numerous times, the bogging down in the courts is not over the right of the government to take the land, but over the price paid. That doesn't slow down anything.

TheRedneck


Well I appreciate your candor in regards to be aware of your limited understanding.

I too have worked in technology (for a decade as a Navy/Air-Force contractor), and I believe we can patrol the border just as effectively without the need for constructing a wall. Furthermore, I believe rather than trying to solve the 'border problem' at the back end, which is less efficacious than removing the drivers that precipitate the problem to begin with (and less costly as well), we would be better served dealing with the causative issues that drive the problem.

Lastly, regarding getting bogged down in the courts: Aren't there sections of the wall that Bush wanted built that still haven't begun construction because they're still haggling in the courts?
edit on 04am19famTue, 22 Jan 2019 11:21:11 -0600America/ChicagoTue, 22 Jan 2019 11:21:11 -0600 by Wayfarer because: clarification




posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer


I believe we can patrol the border just as effectively without the need for constructing a wall.

Again, sensors and technology cannot apprehend. They can only observe and report. The only way I can even imagine a method where technology would be sufficient to physically stop illegals would be maybe a remote-operated firearm... not something I would support, and probably illegal.

Outside of that, there is nothing I can envision that would do the trick.


Furthermore, I believe rather than trying to solve the 'border problem' at the back end, which is less efficacious than removing the drivers that precipitate the problem to begin with (and less costly as well), we would be better served dealing with the causative issues that drive the problem.

I completely agree that we need to stop the driving force. I don't see why that would negate the need for a wall as well.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Wayfarer


I believe we can patrol the border just as effectively without the need for constructing a wall.

Again, sensors and technology cannot apprehend. They can only observe and report. The only way I can even imagine a method where technology would be sufficient to physically stop illegals would be maybe a remote-operated firearm... not something I would support, and probably illegal.

Outside of that, there is nothing I can envision that would do the trick.


Furthermore, I believe rather than trying to solve the 'border problem' at the back end, which is less efficacious than removing the drivers that precipitate the problem to begin with (and less costly as well), we would be better served dealing with the causative issues that drive the problem.

I completely agree that we need to stop the driving force. I don't see why that would negate the need for a wall as well.

TheRedneck


My assumption (and these are just my own musings) is that sensor technology (drones, etc) would be used to identify transgressors, and then an up-scaled/up-staffed border patrol would ride out to collect (pretty much like what we do in the non walled areas already). First we end up employing a lot more folks for a much longer period of time at a lower-middle class wage (which I'm all for), and we avoid environmental and eminent domain issues, while acquiring assets that have a much wider multi-purpose operational envelope so that if at some point border patrol needs the flexibility to adapt or shift to changing operating conditions, they can more easily transfer assets into other areas (in essence, there won't be a wall to tear down at some point in the future when its no longer an issue).

All of this is in conjunction with targeted legislation mean to eliminate the economy for illicit drugs, as well as an up-staffed/up-scaled immigration system to adequately handle legal immigration so that there's even less incentive to make the trek in secret (preferably remotely before they even leave their homes).



posted on Jan, 23 2019 @ 02:38 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer


My assumption (and these are just my own musings) is that sensor technology (drones, etc) would be used to identify transgressors, and then an up-scaled/up-staffed border patrol would ride out to collect (pretty much like what we do in the non walled areas already).

And that is inherently inefficient. These people do not want to be caught, which is why they cross at unsecured border positions. They can, once they cross the border, move in any direction they choose. The result is like herding cattle as opposed to keeping cattle in a pasture; the former is far, far, far less efficient and inevitably leads to losses.

The telling part is this: "(pretty much like what we do in the non walled areas already)" If what we were doing already were effective, we would not have the vast numbers of illegal aliens in the United States, nor would we have the opioid crisis in the proportions we do, nor would MS-13 be anything more than a niche issue. Reality is screaming that we have a border security problem, and logic dictates that one cannot solve a problem by continuing to do what is already being done.

Look, I know the media is screaming to high heaven about all the problems there are with building a barrier, but anyone who actually considers the arguments being made can easily see that they are ends justifying means. When one approaches the border security issue with an open mind, it becomes obvious that there is an issue worth addressing, and that technology alone cannot replace a physical barrier. Technology is a good thing (one of the Cato Institute links earlier mentioned that even President Trump has stated he wants to use technology in the wall), but technology alone is never the answer. I can build any electronic circuit I can imagine in my shop... but without something physical for it to actually do, it is nothing more than entertainment.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 23 2019 @ 02:52 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


BY ROBERT FROST

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbour know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
"Stay where you are until our backs are turned!"
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, "Good fences make good neighbours."
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
"Why do they make good neighbours? Isn't it
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down." I could say "Elves" to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbours."



posted on Jan, 23 2019 @ 04:25 AM
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a reply to: seagull

I would that we have no cows or other creatures to wander; we would then need no wall.

But alas, we do, and some of the most menacing kind... so we need a wall.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 14 2019 @ 07:35 PM
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Funny not much mention of how Pelousi's family was going on the trip on our dime while the rest of the govt went unpaid. No mention about the plot to blow up the white house by another "lone nut" during the time this was going to take place. This is still a conspiracy website right?
edit on 14-4-2019 by CrazyFox because: Missed a letter



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