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5D chess: Is Trump using the shutdown to fire deep-state federal employees?

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posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:14 AM
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Editorial in "American Thinker"

www.americanthinker.com...

The basic ideas presented are:

-DJ Trumps televised shouting match was a ploy, to get Pelosi to commit to the biggest shutdown in US history.

-once the shutdown passes the 30-day mark, non-essential fed workers can be permanently "RIF-Ed" (reduction-in-force). They cannot be terminated for their work, but can be axed according do seniority etc.

-department heads cannot do it perfectly, but can axe the new bureaucrats, climbing higher and higher up the seniority ladder, until they've axed the ones Sabotaging trump policies. Then later rehire the 'good' ones.

This sounds completely believable to me, and would explain why trump (and also pence) seemed to "lean into" the idea of a shutdown, saying things designed to piss off Pelosi & co., and guarantee the doors of govt stay closed into February...

What do you think? Are the DJTrump handlers smart enough to handle this? I can picture Guiliani coming up with a plan like this.




posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: Graysen

Man, I've never even heard of DJ Trump! Does he spin some sick s**t or what???



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: Graysen

-DJ Trumps televised shouting match was a ploy, to get Pelosi to commit to the biggest shutdown in US history.


This sounds completely believable to me, and would explain why trump (and also pence) seemed to "lean into" the idea of a shutdown, saying things designed to piss off Pelosi & co., and guarantee the doors of govt stay closed into February...




Non US here, so who is at fault while real Americans suffer, it looks like the usual 2 party nonsense with both at fault all while blaming each other, maybe like ice hockey and basketball call in the TV official to see who instigated it first, that could take a while though with so much BS to wade thru



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: Graysen
You do know that you can only fire Federal Workers for very specific reasons, don't you?



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

O I know. This is a "reduction in force," which is not 'firing' them per se, just downsizing them. Which is not normally legal, either; except in this case.

You end up not having a job, against your will. It feels like being fired, but it's actually being "right-sized." And legal.

Edit to add:

I put quotes around "fire" in the thread title; ATS didn't post

edit on 17-1-2019 by Graysen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:43 AM
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originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
a reply to: Graysen
You do know that you can only fire Federal Workers for very specific reasons, don't you?



That is the point... it isn't a "firing" under the legal definition. It is a reduction in force. If they don't get back to work within 30 days, apparently the Pres does not have to replace them.

The end result is the same... it would be a brilliant way to cull the bureaucracy.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:44 AM
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Downsizing does not even have to be in regards to seniority.
Just by what one does as their job
They can be declared "redundant" and let go.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: Graysen

What is a deep-state federal employee ?



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: Graysen

You can't fix stupid.

How far people will go to justify failed decision making by there glorious leader.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: Graysen

I have heard the rumor going around. Anyone who has worked or interacted with the Federal bureaucracy knows how over employed it is. lots of middle people to go to...in order to get forms and permits approved. Why are TSA and CBP officers working without their top management and it seems all is ok? Are these well paid managers and top management needed? It would be better to pay the "essential" employees and not pay the non-essential. That would be a really good indication of the waste and bureaucracy in our government....if that is done...the shutdown could go on for 3 months and no one would know or care.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:56 AM
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Wishful thinking is all. Trump agreed to pay all federal employees retroactively.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:57 AM
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originally posted by: HMaximilian
a reply to: Graysen

I have heard the rumor going around. Anyone who has worked or interacted with the Federal bureaucracy knows how over employed it is. lots of middle people to go to...in order to get forms and permits approved. Why are TSA and CBP officers working without their top management and it seems all is ok? Are these well paid managers and top management needed? It would be better to pay the "essential" employees and not pay the non-essential. That would be a really good indication of the waste and bureaucracy in our government....if that is done...the shutdown could go on for 3 months and no one would know or care.


Damn near 1 million people not working in government right now and the world has not stopped spinning. The sun rose and the moon shines bright.

This is what Democrats are afraid of... people are going to start asking WTF were all these people supposedly doing.

The government is bloated and you have all these agencies just pushing paper.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:01 AM
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originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
Wishful thinking is all. Trump agreed to pay all federal employees retroactively.



Paying them retroactively does not mean they will continue to be employed...



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: UpIsNowDown

originally posted by: Graysen

-DJ Trumps televised shouting match was a ploy, to get Pelosi to commit to the biggest shutdown in US history.


This sounds completely believable to me, and would explain why trump (and also pence) seemed to "lean into" the idea of a shutdown, saying things designed to piss off Pelosi & co., and guarantee the doors of govt stay closed into February...




Non US here, so who is at fault while real Americans suffer, it looks like the usual 2 party nonsense with both at fault all while blaming each other, maybe like ice hockey and basketball call in the TV official to see who instigated it first, that could take a while though with so much BS to wade thru


Just remember, Americans aren't suffering like the news articles would make you think. They know they can go out and search for 5 people that will say it's hurting them and run a story with them. To anyone watching, it would seem like with "so many" suffering, this has to be bad. In reality, there aren't many that are suffering. Going without a check, sure, but not suffering. They'll all be reimbursed as well.

I saw NBC run an article last night about a celebrity chef (millionaire) claim he MIGHT be able to continue running his soup line for another week before he's forced to shut it down. These are the kinds of idiots they interview.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:04 AM
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posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: HMaximilian
a reply to: Graysen

I have heard the rumor going around. Anyone who has worked or interacted with the Federal bureaucracy knows how over employed it is. lots of middle people to go to...in order to get forms and permits approved. Why are TSA and CBP officers working without their top management and it seems all is ok? Are these well paid managers and top management needed? It would be better to pay the "essential" employees and not pay the non-essential. That would be a really good indication of the waste and bureaucracy in our government....if that is done...the shutdown could go on for 3 months and no one would know or care.


Damn near 1 million people not working in government right now and the world has not stopped spinning. The sun rose and the moon shines bright.

This is what Democrats are afraid of... people are going to start asking WTF were all these people supposedly doing.

The government is bloated and you have all these agencies just pushing paper.


Yep. Plenty of jobs in the peon world to fill.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: Graysen

No.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: CharlesT

I noticed the federal reserve is fully intact...
2nd



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated




Damn near 1 million people not working in government right now and the world has not stopped spinning. The sun rose and the moon shines bright.


Wait till you see the economic numbers for January/1st quarter.
White House More Than Doubling The Shutdown's Negative Impact On The Economy


Trump administration officials now say that the government shutdown is having more than twice the negative impact on the economy than they first estimated. Amazingly, but maybe not surprising, it seems the White House’s Council of Economic Advisors did not include contractors not being paid (and who probably won’t receive retroactive payments) or the ripple effect on the economy such as restaurant meals not being taken or movies seen or the greater personal impacts of not having money to buy food, pay rent or have to sell a car.


Kevin Hassett, the chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers...told media outlets on Tuesday that the shutdown should reduce economic growth by 0.13 percentage points for every week that it lasts vs. the 0.1 percentage points every two weeks it originally projected.
Forbes

Yeah, this is going to hurt like hell..

In the first quarter of 2018, the Federal government was directly responsible for $1.3 trillion of the economy’s $20 trillion (6.5% on an annualized basis). While only about 20% of the government is shut down, this portion directly accounts for 1.3% of the economy.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:02 AM
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a reply to: gortex

An employee whose loyalty is to the bureaucracy itself, rather than hir own agency or the agency's official director (and the chief executive, the president). At this point in US history, they are progressives, hired during the Clinton - Obama presidencies, who carry out their own agendas rather than directives from above.

Examples would be state department (CIA) employees who continue to carry out directives of ex-secretary of state Clinton, regardless of instructions from the current SoS Pompeo, in regards to certifying corporations to do business with Russia and Iran in exception to US trade embargoes.

A low-level example would be a district EPA official who refuses to issue a permit for a farmer to build an earthen dam on his property for the purpose of capturing rainwater, creating local wildlife habitat and restoring a wetland, since it would also provide water for the farmer's cattle. The EPA official cites agency guidelines from the Obama era, that were never US law and have been amended by the EPA since Trump took office so they now conform with state law. If the decision is appealed, it goes to the same official who has just denied the request.




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