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The time for political reform in the UK is NOW!!!

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posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 05:29 AM
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I originally started writing this as a reply to the following comment on this thread by OtherSideoftheCoin and I thought it might be best with its own discussion


originally posted by: Freeborn

Everyone seems completely disenchanted with our politicians and the EU's continued reticence, contempt and disregard for the British people.



The question is, how do we capitalise on that sentiment? We all, all sides (let's be real here, there's sides withing the Remain camp and sides on the Leave camp) of this divided, once great nation believe that the government. Is no longer fit for purpose. We stand united in that belief, millions of us.

Then surely the time for political reform is now? The politicians have shown they, marginally have confidence in the government, well I say we, the people, do not. Isn't it time we all tell them that? Why not try writing, emailing or visiting your MP to tell them this. Because that shower down in Westminster seem. oblivious to the fact that we no longer trust them or the words that come out of their mouths. They also lack the trust of the voiceless generation who are being pulled from the EU whether they like it or not (people always have something to say about this but put yourself in their shoes, whichever way you voted or stand, it must feel quite undemocratic not to have been asked.

Now personally I would prefer we stay in the EU until we find an agreement and make the appropriate preparations so we don't crash out and inherit the problems that entails, for example the customs officers who are set to face a 30% rise in their workload (sorry, I don't have a link for that but it was said by a customs officer on the news last night) and don't have the the time or money to train up staff to handle that. But make no mistake, we would leave. However, I understand that's not good enough for some of you so we have a vote about how to progress, leave immediately or kaibosh Brexit and move to The Split (Brexit was a silly name) whether it's a slow process that gives everyone the best possible chance or its a quick ripping off of the European plaster we will leave.

So who's with me and where do we start?

I would like this to be a discussion of positive input from Remainers and Leavers alike....




posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 05:37 AM
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Wide divides are hard to span... Maybe it is time to stock up on some yellow vest ?



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 05:39 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

I voted out based on the EU and its punishment of Greece, its nonsensical money wasting laws and because MEPs like the tool Farage happily denounce the EU while still claiming his expenses, it has to stop.

I mean the country is in turmoil and this was something being discussed yesterday

Calls to ban low-level letterboxes and adopt EU standard

If another referendum is called I will vote for whatever I am told is better for me, I think thats how it works now isnt it?



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

The time for such a discussion was when there was no representation on the left.

There is now. The only thing that remains to do is to take the opportunity that comes with that, and actually force the nation away from corporatism and runaway capitalism, into a place where the people are the priority and everything else is an irrelevance.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 05:41 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro
Business will force the hand of politicians. BMW/Audi/Mercedes will still want us to buy their cars.
Spain would go bankrupt without UK tourists. Money talks and bull# walks. Business will make trade happen even in a WTO environment, but business may even force some fudged deal over the next few days.
Politicians give it all the large one in public but business pulls the strings.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 06:03 AM
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You know what kind of pisses me off.

Last month 117 conservatives voted to say they had no confidence in May as party leader.....yet last night they pretty much all voted to say they had convidance in her government to lead the country.

Now I didn’t support the vote of no confidence in government

But it still pisses me of because it demonstrates how we have nothing but a bunch of self-serving hypocritical bag of Willy’s in Parliament who are not willing to put their jobs on the line to fix this mess.

How can you possibly say you don’t trust her to lead your own party but she is ok to run this shabols of a government?


edit on 17-1-2019 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 06:05 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
How can you possibly say you don’t trust her to lead your own party but she is ok to run this shabols of a government.
They want to stay in power. No real surprise is it?



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 06:08 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
How can you possibly say you don’t trust her to lead your own party but she is ok to run this shabols of a government.
They want to stay in power. No real surprise is it?


Am not surprised I think that kind of makes me more pissed about it



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 06:16 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
How can you possibly say you don’t trust her to lead your own party but she is ok to run this shabols of a government.
They want to stay in power. No real surprise is it?


Am not surprised I think that kind of makes me more pissed about it
Do you genuinely get angry about it though? I don't. I'm like 'meh' to stuff I can't change. I still have bills to pay and food to put on the table.
I can't actually remember the last time I was angry to be honest...maybe 3 years ago when one of my older brothers was being a prick, and around the same time some guy paid me late for a job, I got angry then which made him pay me.
Politicians being self serving though lol, that is expected, although I have known some local ones who were altruistic.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 06:50 AM
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originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
a reply to: djz3ro

I voted out based on the EU and its punishment of Greece, its nonsensical money wasting laws and because MEPs like the tool Farage happily denounce the EU while still claiming his expenses, it has to stop.



I do agree with you on those points, though they weren't enough for me to vote leave.


originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
I mean the country is in turmoil and this was something being discussed yesterday

Calls to ban low-level letterboxes and adopt EU standard



Well, I can actually see the sense in this one, sorry. When there's no work going I go round leafleting for the Landscaping/Tree Surgery service I work for. And those lying letterboxes aren't much of a nuisance yet but I'm not getting any younger plus I intend to start my own business and parts of that will require me to do leaflet drops as well. So I kind of have a vested interest. So I kinda hope this gets through before brexit.

Think of the Paperboys, the Posties, the letterbox sized package delivery folk, the landscapers, roofers, Avon people, conservationists (you know those folk who sell Conservatories), the charity baggers and the Irish travellers...



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 06:51 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: djz3ro

The time for such a discussion was when there was no representation on the left.

There is now. The only thing that remains to do is to take the opportunity that comes with that, and actually force the nation away from corporatism and runaway capitalism, into a place where the people are the priority and everything else is an irrelevance.


I get what you're saying but surely if the majority of the British People have no confidence in the government, do they still have a mandate to lead?



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 06:54 AM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: djz3ro
Business will force the hand of politicians. BMW/Audi/Mercedes will still want us to buy their cars.
Spain would go bankrupt without UK tourists. Money talks and bull# walks. Business will make trade happen even in a WTO environment, but business may even force some fudged deal over the next few days.
Politicians give it all the large one in public but business pulls the strings.


I cannot argue with what you're saying but things won't just continue the way they are. There's too much bureaucracy involved for that to happen. The suffering will start at the bottom and work its way up the class system. It's hurt the little man first and very likely be fixed before the upper classes were hit.

Much like the recession.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

You can't really blame our own politicians when their hands have been so tied by Euro bureaucracy and they don't want to admit it . They've hardly had a chance yet because they're stuck within a framework design to restrain them .
May has taken a suitably nebulous approach and hardly blamed the EU for the things like the hard Irish border which they put in the way deliberately without necessity . N one mentions the EPP except a very few like Le Pen / Farage .
You want to listen to what you're being told by hard Brexiteers , not brush it off because you don't understand . They're talking about macro scale problems with EU politics democracy and economy which need ironing out , none of what they come out with is petty or ill considered or not of any substance ... but the substance is usually on a level with the profound , not the mundane , those political issues would have huge impact shaping everything a bit further down the line . European Union's meaning has changed and is still morphing into a being which has been recognised by professional politicians and academics alike as being unfit for purpose , dangerous to continue with . The paying public just dont recognise these things easily , and until we hear facts and references to the bodies and people that matter we dont expect to have to listen to individuals opinions . That the public has become further educated and contrary to remain arguments - they just do not hold water against the problems the EU pose to sovereign decision making .
Nobody liked Cameron or OSbourne but they were the ones who stood up the EPP and organised the resistance . AND the allies responded .
So calling the current lot a shambles is unfair at best , bemoaning the division is not recognising the facts (remain mps are plants or only have their own agendas in mind) . If they're not behind Brexit yet they never will be , they're apologists for the European status quo . There's plenty of poor people in bailed out countries likeSPain which may be forever in debt to the ECB and EU is the body arbitrating the repayments , forcing austerity on them , and puttting them further in debt for more years ahead , by lending and not providing solutions. Do we want that to happen here perhaps ? No .
There's both reason to have confidence in no deal , and reason to not panic about no deal , its really not that much of a problem .



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:49 AM
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Some remainers, and what they get from the eu each year:-
Mandelson, £673,000 pension.
Kinnock £1,700,000 pension.
Heseltine, £90,000 farming subsidy.
Tugendhat, £796,000 pension.
Patten, £777,000 pension.
Ashoton £328,000 pension. ( I have no idea who she is).
Found this on an FB page.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: pikestaff



Found this on an FB page.


Must be true then......



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

How do you propose to reform it?

As long as greed and the love of money drive the machinations of those with power and influence we will always be getting screwed over.

We should strive for a meritocracy over a democracy, for equity over equality, for healthy competition over cronyism. As it is we don’t and won’t unless the nation and particularly those with power can find a moral compass to guide us forward.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:21 AM
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I've been quite vocal in my belief in urgent and radical reform of our parliamentary and electoral systems.
As has been shown quite clearly over the last few days party politics has outlived its fit for purpose....it certainly doesn't put the will and best interests of the UK electorate first and foremost.
It is divisive and only serves to maintain the status quo and the interests of those who control it.

I have my opinions, this may be surprising to some, as to how I believe we should move forward and possible radical reforms.

But I can't be arsed to get into a debate at present.

The British people are scared of change....as clearly evidenced by the refusal to implement the result of the democratic referendum and the resistance towards any meaningful Brexit.

And I'm all politicsed out, (I know its not a real word but I'm sure you'll get my drift), and completely disillusioned with it all.....I now know exactly how Cypher felt!



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn
I know how you feel man.
I think the UK would change for the better if we had a proportional representation voting system.
The two big parties are against it though because they would lose MP's guaranteed.
PR voting would be a positive step, it works in the Welsh assembly and Scottish Parliament pretty well.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: DoctorBluechip
a reply to: djz3ro

There's both reason to have confidence in no deal , and reason to not panic about no deal , its really not that much of a problem .



Can you try selling No Deal to me? Politiciams have failed to so far., not that anyone has attempted to that I've seen. Mosy big business is against No Deal too and they have considerable more sway than us.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: djz3ro

How do you propose to reform it?

As long as greed and the love of money drive the machinations of those with power and influence we will always be getting screwed over.

We should strive for a meritocracy over a democracy, for equity over equality, for healthy competition over cronyism. As it is we don’t and won’t unless the nation and particularly those with power can find a moral compass to guide us forward.


If I knew what shape the reform could take I would have suggested some but, sadly that's a job for more political minds than my own...
edit on 17/1/19 by djz3ro because: To add a /




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