It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

J. Allen Hynek UFology giant or just Government agent

page: 1
15
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 08:19 PM
link   
Overall, was J Allen Hynek, even though he straddled the fence in his association with the US government, on the right side of the UFO conundrum…? That is on the side of honest disclosure.

Hynek, the guy who came up with the infamous swamp gas fairy tale while being coaxed by his government sponsors to explain one well known UFO flap.

The guy who started one of the longest running UFO groups The Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS).

Who in the 70’s because of the groundbreaking Spielberg movie Close Encounters of a Third Kind and his association with the film, became the darling of UFO media circuit.

Started, along with Jacques Vallee the prestigious, though with much hubris, Invisible College.


Indeed with all these vital and prestigious UFO centered feathers in his UFO studies cap, does this mean he is or was one of the true giants of Ufology.

For myself, I have to give Hynek great credit in he being one of the few ex government associated researchers and scientists who ventured to uphold some objectivity in the UFO search for truth.


Even though I have problems with his closeness to the government secret boys, particularly his acts in the famous or infamous Bennewitz caper…

But leaving that aside, on the face of things Hynek seems to have been a giant in UFOlogy, the likes of which we don’t see today or may never see again.

What do my UFO research comrades think about Hynek?

Was he a true giant or just the forerunner of lessor government agents like we have today in a Luis Elizondo for instance



Presently, a fictional version of his Blue Book years is running on the History channel

www.history.com...




posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 08:39 PM
link   
Very good question considering the allegations made against Hynek as regards Paul Bennewitz. Hard to say on that aspect. It's worth noting that Vallee at some point came to believe that Hynek had caved to government pressure at least once and possibly covered some information up.

Overall, however, and in spite of unanswered questions, I do believe Hynek was on his own lifelong and sincere quest for answers to phenomenology.

My own quest to figure him out led me to the following information that explains much about him I do believe:

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Rosicrucianism, & UFOs

He ultimately leaned toward what we often refer to using his friend and sometimes working partner's (Vallee) terminology of the IDH (Interdimensional Hypothesis.) The above thread, I believe, possibly explains why.


edit on 16-1-2019 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 09:07 PM
link   
a reply to: The GUT

I think the US governmental IC community is like the mafia. When and if you ever get in you don’t get out.

That explains though doesn’t excuse Hynek’s Bennewitz work. Though he more than made up for that I guess.

I forgot about that great thread GUT, thanks for the reminder, I'll happily dig in it.




posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 10:57 PM
link   
a reply to: The GUT

Very interesting stuff GUT…

I myself recall buying the Secret Teaching of all Ages in my youth and being extraordinarily impressed by the great Manly Hall and subsequently think of him as one of my teachers, among many I have had.

The idea of the IDH and ETH never phased me much and for one simple reason. Any mystic with any real understanding knows one thing in this mysterious quest for knowledge and it’s this:
Phenomen(a)on is a bridge to the real

So EDH ETH EDI ETI are meaningless terms.

If Hynek or Vallee got anywhere in Western mysticism they understood this eventually.

As for merging UFOlogy with mysticism or occultism or metaphysics, well obviously it has its practical reality in that both actually are phenomena; and even now they call it phenomenology.

That being said, the importance of relating Ufological phenomena with any kind of mysticism imho has little to do (directly—though certainly indirectly) with what we’ll call the inward (the realm of mysticism) and possibly everything to do with the outward (the interest of Ufological phenomenon) which eventually relates to the transformation of the inward.

But in this case how are they related?
It’s really not that deep:

Ill put it this way. One is dealing with the outward or husk and the other deals with the kernel or inward…at some point they converge. One can’t just expose that kernel without first erecting the husk…And sometimes there’s no way some things can be totally hidden, particularly as relates to the husk…

And they don’t have the time or inclination to stop and explain what in the world their doing.

Both phenomenon, though, just past each other and ignore each other since they both have their respective jobs to perform in the great work or task at hand.

All we can do now is witness and try to understand it, for what its worth. If you can learn understanding from it then it has worth. Humans looking at the ETH and trying to decipher what in the world is going on can be likened to the rats( that is if rats could magically think like us) running around ancient Egypt trying to figure out what in the world these humans are doing hauling those humongous boulders around.

Well, to the rats it’s said:

Were building something so the people can be safe and warm when change comes.
.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:33 PM
link   
Just an opinion here guys.

We have two groups of people. Those with personal experience and those who don't.

Usually it is the later that are doing the investigation. The investigators usually use the intellect and the detached sciencey approach and are just investigating data.

Fair enough as it is generally all they have.

The result of this is speculation, theories and hypothesises.

Hynek, if he ventured towards the Rosicrucians in his quest for answers, looks to me like he understood the limits of intellect and studying data.

This suggests he wanted to experience things himself and was looking for the right tools.

To become an experiencer . . . .
edit on 16-1-2019 by Whatsthisthen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 12:32 AM
link   
a reply to: Willtell



Hynek, the guy who came up with the infamous swamp gas fairy tale while being coaxed by his government sponsors to explain one well known UFO flap


Good thread Willtell and when it comes to the infamous swamp gas debunk there's a relevant link below - according to Sheriff Doug Harvey, Dr Hynek was at a complete loss to explain the incidents but then received a telephone call from Washington a short time before the press conference which left him looking a bit perplexed.


Origins of Swamp Gas Debunk


The confrontation with Dr McDonald as described in this vid may have also played a role in his then emerging criticism of Bluebook and one of the best interviews I've seen is the one below where he states about 20 percent of Bluebook cases could not be explained and that patterns in UFO behaviour appear globally.

He also mentions that the Condon report was a 'travesty on science'; that Dr Condon never investigated even one case and that Dr Condon wrote the summary whilst completely neglecting the contents of the report.



Historic Film Stock


The Amazing World of Kreskin (1972-1975) Show No. 43


Video Link


Cheers.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 01:34 AM
link   
a reply to: karl 12

Yeah Hynek was a government hack for a long time.
Of course back then I guess you couldn’t blame him.

Like I said to GUT…Once you’re in that IC government spooky group you’re in for life. Like Elizondo running around pretending him aint still shilling for the government with TTSA. I’m sure Hynek worked for them far into the 80’s when he delivered that phony computer to Bennewitz and aided his breakdown.


I am always willing to forgive but we can NEVER forget anyone who worked in the IC disinformation crew and now wants to be Mr. Ufologist. Indeed there are so many of these guys who were government IC spooks and now we are suppose to forget about that.

It doesn’t really matter if the government runs this show since with or without them the train will be on time one way or the other



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 08:06 AM
link   
Given that Hynek is featured in the new Project Blue Book series this is a good time to discuss his life and his legacy.
When I did a piece about him a few years ago it became apparent that he was in, virtually from the very start of the modern UFO age, as a scientific adviser to the Air Force. Once a company man....as they say.

Hynek was very much a non-believer in flying saucers from outer space back then. Although He gradually shifted that position even if not publicly for a long while. He became very frustrated with Blue Book once it became an exercise in explaining away everything as mundane. But defended his position of not making waves and choosing to remain with the Project claiming he could bide his time and it gave him access to the store of data (no matter how poorly organised it was).

Richard Dolan, however has said that Project Blue Book was simply a public front and Hynek was aware of this from the start. Citing Vallee’s suspicions, by pointing out that Hynek’s consultancy fees came from the Dodge Corporation not the Air Force. He also pointed to Hynek’s close association with Donald Menzel (senior member of the U.S. intelligence community and an alleged MJ-12 member). Effectively meaning he was in the pocket of the US Intelligence services. It's hard to say with hindsight. Because once you are surrounded by a bunch of these guys then you effectively get led down certain paths.

Deep down Hynek really thought there was a phenomenon. Although he considered it to be too complex to be aliens in spaceships visiting the Earth. He left this Earth without ever finding an answer. But I always like his quote


I realised we don’t have UFOs.... only UFO reports.....


Over 30 years since his passing that seems to ring true still today.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 12:36 PM
link   
Greetings MM, I know a little about the man, probably should know more given my interest in the subject, but I did not know he thought ufo's were to complex to be aliens in spaceships. That kind of surprised me. I had heard he was a skeptic on the subject initially, but that he came around later. At least he was open minded when he passed.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 01:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: data5091
Greetings MM, I know a little about the man, probably should know more given my interest in the subject, but I did not know he thought ufo's were to complex to be aliens in spaceships. That kind of surprised me. I had heard he was a skeptic on the subject initially, but that he came around later. At least he was open minded when he passed.



Yes indeed, Hynek, Vallee and John Keel were the numero uno chaps who started to get away from the nut and bolts standard UFO scheme of ETH.

Though, that is only amongst the mainstream since many researchers even in and before and after the Adamski era were already into IDH, mainly the mystical types.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 01:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: karl 12

Yeah Hynek was a government hack for a long time.


Fair points mate but I do agree with Gut that he was on a sincere quest for answers to the phenomenon - especially during the Quintanilla era where Hynek describes 'the flag of the utter nonsense school flying at its highest on the mast" - to his credit he also proposed new ways to make Bluebook investigative methods far more objective and scientific..but was completely ignored.


Quote:


"We forget that sometime there will be a 30th century science which probably will be as different (from science today) as Babylonian society. We went from the Kitty Hawk to the moon in 70 years. This UFO business has been going on for a quarter of a century. We should cut the nonsense and get down to study'



Also liked (and agreed with) this statement concerning


.."three incontrovertible points that even the grossest sceptic can't ignore' - one, that UFO reports not only exist but persist; two, that the phenomenon is global in nature (over 140 countries) and three, that many UFO reports come from highly credible and technically trained people.



This quote concerning UFO origin is also a relevant one:



In considering extra-terrestrial intelligence, said Dr. Hynek, we may be putting the cart before the horse. As a humorous example, he added:



'Speaking of horses, suppose someone comes here and tells us... there is a report of a horse in the bath tub. I think it would be rather pointless to then ask, what is the color of the horse, what does he eat, how could he have gotten there, who who installed the bath tub? The question is, is there a horse in the bath tub?


Cheers.
edit on 17-1-2019 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 01:38 PM
link   
The reason Hynek and Vallee helped the notorious Richard Doty of the Air force AFOSI in scamming Paul Bennewitz clearly is proof of two things: These government guys are forever in the claws of the IC. Also, these mainstream UFO folks have contempt for the extreme side of the UFO bizaro boys…like Bennewitz had become and the Bill Cooper types and other fringe UFO people. Vallee waxed utter contempt for that kind in his books so its clear to me they ambushed him in cahoots with the AFOSI.

Greg Bishop mentions in his book Project Beta the odd thing that this dark chapter is rarely mentioned by Ufologists, that is that Hynek AND Vallee brought that FAKE computer to Bennewitz, so is recorded in UFO lore.

edit on 17-1-2019 by Willtell because: (no reason given)





...Greg continues: “To this and, an unnamed computer scientist was hired to write a program specifically for Bennewitz. Instead of words like “telemetry,” “range,” and “target,” others were substituted. The same signals would now spit out things like “aliens,” “Home planet,” and “death ray.” Now, the whole thing needed to be delivered to Bennewitz’s doorstep.” This is where things get really strange, however. In 1982, UFO researcher Bill Moore would be in attendance at a MUFON annual symposium, the same year J. Allen Hynek of the Center for UFO Studies had been there lecturing. According to Bishop, Moore told him that while talking with Hynek over drinks at the bar that year, Hynek admitted to having presented the “bogus” computer setup to Bennewitz, describing it as one of the last “official” actions he carried out during his tenure with the USAF.


link
edit on 17-1-2019 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 01:55 PM
link   
Now this really pisses me off…

Here's a guy, to me, a blue color scientist—Bennewitz… on the brink of insanity and these two punk elitist university IC pussy's Hynek and Vallee collude with the sinister devils in the US IC to drive him completely insane…

Why, because they look down on people like Bennewitz…non “scientists” and elitists like Hynek and Vallee were in their FAKE academy of jackassess they created called the Invisible college.

That’s the interesting thing here we have to take as a lesson from

NEVER EVER TRUST ANY UNIVERSITY OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT PERSON!

They are elitists and puppets of the US IC

NEVER EVER TRUST ANYONE LIKE THAT

I know I sound kind of wild and excuse me but when you REALLY KNOW something like I do in this instance it needs to be said.


That’s why NEVER TRUST an organization as far as you could through Zondo like TTSA filled with these types…



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 03:04 PM
link   
What did you make of the Pentacle Memo, Will?

Vallee seemed to feel Hynek had been hiding some secret project to fool/test public perceptions. However I've always thought he misread the whole situation.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 03:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: Willtell
Humans looking at the ETH and trying to decipher what in the world is going on can be likened to the rats( that is if rats could magically think like us) running around ancient Egypt trying to figure out what in the world these humans are doing hauling those humongous boulders around.


My favourite analogy of this kind is human existence being compared to a gorilla sanctuary. Would WE as 'superior beings' even bother to approach the lead gorilla of such a place in an attempt to explain the nature and purpose of the sanctuary within our own territory and galaxy? Hell, we wouldn't even bother to say "Hi". We might grab a couple of 'em for a few experiments, though.




posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 03:33 PM
link   
a reply to: mirageman

Interesting…But wheres the actual letter..also...
What I would like to know is what was Vallee doing in Hynek’s files? Was he his secretary or something?

And if this letter was in his files and was so vital then why didn’t he, Hynek, even know about it. Of course, Valle’s self-serving, “Hynek's files were a mess” I think answers my question

This whole story smells as disinformation.
Minimally it informs us that there’s no way one can ever trust the government or anyone ever associated with it.
Disclosure is a joke

I’ll read it again more closely but a cursory reading reads like disinformation to me and it really doesn't say much of substance

Lastly, we already knew the Robertson panel was FAKE


edit on 17-1-2019 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 03:36 PM
link   
a reply to: ConfusedBrit




Hell, we wouldn't even bother to say "Hi". We might grab a couple of 'em for a few experiments, though.



The first word is instructive



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 03:42 PM
link   
a reply to: mirageman

Another thing is the McGraw Hill paid Hynek statement, a company I use to consult for which is totally a publishing company.

Obviously, it is a cut-out organization used to cover up Hynek’s association with whatever group he was controlled by. Though Mcgraw-Hill was a huge and powerful corporation in its day

The fact of the matter is Vallee could have been working for an entirely different IC group as he got close to Hynek…so close he could rummage through his files



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 03:51 PM
link   
a reply to: mirageman

"I realised we don't have UFOs only UFO reports" - - Hynek

Shouldn't that read, objectively speaking,


"I realised I don't have UFOs, only UFO reports"

Or

"I realised the Air Force don't have UFOs only UFO reports"

?



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 04:09 PM
link   
a reply to: Willtell

The story goes...in 1967 Hynek had given Vallee permission to go through his files while he was away from home for a break. The intentions was for Vallee to tidy and organise them. So he did. Then came upon a top secret memo which Vallee dubbed the "Pentacle Memo". Vallee felt it showed that the US was creating false UFO waves to test out the perceptions of the public....

You can read it here : www.cufon.org.... I've edited it down to show the important bits below....



SECRET
SECURITY INFORMATION

January 9, 1953

Mr. Miles E. Goll
Box 9575
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio

Attention Capt. Edward J. Ruppelt

Dear Mr. Goll:

This letter concerns a preliminary recommendation to ATIC on future methods of handling the problem of unidentified aerial objects. This recommendation is based on our experience to date in analyzing several thousands of reports on this subject. We regard the recommendation as preliminary because our analysis is not yet complete, and we are not able to document it where we feel it should be supported by facts from the analysis.

We are making this recommendation prematurely because of a CIA-sponsored meeting of a scientific panel, meeting in Washington, D.C., January 14, 15, and 16, 1953, to consider the problem of "flying saucers"....

Experience to date on our study of unidentified flying objects shows that there is a distinct lack of reliable data ... Therefore, we recommend that a controlled experiment be set up by which reliable physical data can be obtained.

We expect that our analysis will show that certain areas in the United States have had an abnormally high number of reported incidents of unidentified flying objects....we recommend that one or two of theses areas be set up as experimental areas. This area, or areas, should have observation posts with complete visual skywatch, with radar and photographic coverage, plus all other instruments necessary or helpful in obtaining positive and reliable data on everything in the air over the area.... All balloon releases or known balloon paths, aircraft flights, and flights of rockets in the test area should be known to those in charge of the experiment. Many different types of aerial activity should be secretly and purposefully scheduled within the area.

From this test area, during the time of the experiment, it can be assumed that there would be a steady flow of reports from ordinary civilian observers, in addition to those by military or other official observers. It should be possible by such a controlled experiment to prove the identity of all objects reported, or to determine positively that there were objects present of unknown identity. Any hoaxes under a set-up such as this could almost certainly be exposed, perhaps not publicly, but at least to the military.

In addition, by having resulting data from the controlled experiment, reports for the last five years could be re-evaluated, in the light of similar but positive information. This should make possible reasonably certain conclusions concerning the importance of the problem of "flying saucers".

Results of an experiment such as described could assist the Air Force to determine how much attention to pay to future situations when, as in the past summer, there were thousands of sightings reported. In the future, then, the Air Force should be able to make positive statements, reassuring to the public, and to the effect that everything is well under control.

Very truly yours,

H. C. Cross


Without swamping the thread with too much details I think he was over reacting to nothing more than a proposal of how to tackle the mass of UFO sightings coming in from everywhere during the early 1950s. You might beg to differ.




top topics



 
15
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join