It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Steve King Calls His Removal “Unprecedented Assault “ of Freedom of Speech.

page: 3
17
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: narrator
Someone has to say the same point that comes up every time there's a free speech thread, so I'll go ahead and do it before it gets lost in the thread:

He's free to say whatever wants, but he isn't free from the consequences of what he says.

I mean, read those quotes in the OP, objectively, and then say that he should still be heading a subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil Justice. He's quoted saying things that go directly against those ideals.

He's also free to believe whatever he wants, but again, not free from the consequences. Since he believes that not all cultures are equal (as he's been quoted as saying), he shouldn't be in charge of a civil justice committee.

It's just common sense.


Do you think the culture of a third world country is equal to the culture of a civilized country? Do you think China's culture is equal to America's culture?




posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:26 AM
link   

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
The full subject is: Steve King Calls His Removal form Congressional Committees and “Unprecedented Assault “ of Freedom of Speech. I shortened to fir in the title,

Steve King is a republican congressman from Iowa. serving the 4th district since 2003. In the past he has been chairman of the subcommittee on the Constitution and civil justice. He is currently in the headlines over some things he has said in the past


It was the Republicans who moved to strip him of his position, and I think it's a good move.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT FREE SPEECH - it's about the consequences of free speech.

He's free to go on saying what he likes. The Republican Party is free to say "that doesn't represent us" and to strip him of his position on a committee that he was appointed to by the Republicans. They didn't remove him from office. He still represents the people who elected him.

He can still go around saying that stuff and more. Nobody's stopping him. There's no one going to put him in prison for saying that or worse.

An assault on free speech is when they put you in prison for saying something. Having your own group say "that isn't the kind of person we want in our committees and making decisions" isn't stopping free speech one iota.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:26 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: projectvxn

And he was in charge of the subcommittee that dealt with equality under law. Considering his past comments, that's as ridiculous as Saudi Arabia being in charge of the Human Rights Council.


Do you think he let's his opinion of cultures override the law?



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Let's be honest. Someone that doesn't believe everyone is equal probably shouldn't be heading the subcommittee on the Constitution and civil justice.


The notion that everyone is equal is totally absurd.
Of course we're not all equal.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: narrator


Are you saying all cultures are equal? The Sentinelese culture is not equal to American culture, mister "its just common sense". Not only in the sense of size, and how well it flourishes... but the fact that we are FAR more diverse and span multipule cultures. (which is a BETTER thing than all else, says the left, right? right? better. right?).


Perhaps you are trying to say all people are equal under the eyes of our creator, because that would be true.


"Mixing cultures will not lead to a higher quality of life, but a lower one" - King

So by your own reasoning with this quote from you: "we are far more diverse and span multiple cultures, which is a BETTER thing...", you disagree with King. So we are in agreement that he was in the wrong.

Cultures, in my opinion, aren't better or worse, just different. You can be in equal standing and still be very different. My 85 year old grandmother and my 18 year old nephew are incredibly different, but equal in the eyes of the law, etc.
That same thing can be extrapolated to groups of people. In my opinion, the culture(s) of the US are not any "better" than cultures anywhere else. Just different. "Better" is an entirely subjective argument, so I view it as pointless.

"In the eyes of the creator" isn't really relevant to this discussion, but I don't believe in a creator, so I disagree with that assessment. People are equal, cultures are equal, and a creator has nothing to do with it.


Millions of Latin Americans disagree with you. They even say they come here for a higher quality of life. Should they adapt to our culture that created a higher quality of life or should we adapt to there's and become another country like the one they left? If you mix the two what have you got?

Up until now all people that came here adapted to us in that they eventually learned the common language - English, even if they did retain many of their customs. This is the biggest factor of success, not skin color.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: narrator
Someone has to say the same point that comes up every time there's a free speech thread, so I'll go ahead and do it before it gets lost in the thread:

He's free to say whatever wants, but he isn't free from the consequences of what he says.

I mean, read those quotes in the OP, objectively, and then say that he should still be heading a subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil Justice. He's quoted saying things that go directly against those ideals.

He's also free to believe whatever he wants, but again, not free from the consequences. Since he believes that not all cultures are equal (as he's been quoted as saying), he shouldn't be in charge of a civil justice committee.

It's just common sense.



Do you think the culture of a third world country is equal to the culture of a civilized country? Do you think China's culture is equal to America's culture?


Notice you can't just get a simple answer...



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:28 AM
link   
a reply to: LSU2018

Disagree. How do you judge what culture is superior to another? There are cultures in the Amazon rainforest that have existed longer than America and will probably continue after we're gone. Does their longevity mean they are a superior culture to America? Should we defer to their practices?

The Ottoman Empire contributed more to Western Civilization than any modern culture. Does that make them a superior culture?

Tell me, what guidelines are used to decide whether one culture is superior to another.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:28 AM
link   
Anyone who wonders out loud why the words “white supremecist” became offensive shouldn’t hold any position in government.

Despite what our reality-challenged right wingers here believe, this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. He wasn’t stopped from saying what he said, and no one is trying to. As a matter of fact it was reported widely. So his right to say what he wants hasn’t been infringed.

What he wasn’t free to do is to be exempt from the consequences of what he said. And that has nothing to do with his first amendment rights being violated. That’s exactly how things are supposed to work.

All the “free speech” people here are doing is being angry because someone got called out for their idiotic small minded racist statements. Which in turn makes me think that either they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how our rights work or they agree with this ancient POS.

Take your pick.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: Edumakated
Notice none of the people saying he should be removed actuality disputed anything he said as being false.

We are at a point where feelings matter more than facts and logic.

This is why we can't have rational and logical debates on policy.


It should go without saying that people think it's wrong. I mean, that's why HIS OWN PARTY kicked him out of the committee he was a part of.

People think he's wrong. That should be obvious, and in your own words, rational and logical, to see.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:31 AM
link   

originally posted by: narrator
a reply to: Propagandalf

That isn't an argument for censorship. It's common sense. Actions (including the act of speaking) have consequences.

Example: Tell a cop you plan to bomb a building. That's just freedom of speech, right? By your logic, you shouldn't be investigated by the police in that scenario, because you're allowed to say whatever you want with zero consequences.



That's a terroristic threat.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:31 AM
link   
a reply to: LSU2018

As I asked another user:

If King was selected for jury duty and the accused in the case was a minority, based on his documented comments, do you think he would/should be allowed to serve on that jury?



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:32 AM
link   
We are living in verbally perilous times. Words are like weapons and you better handle them with care. There is an army of thought police on the warpath and they will snap your words out of context, embellished them to make a point, and decide exactly what you meant to say whether true or not.

Reading this thread reminded me of this recent event:

DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honorary titles after racist remarks

James Watson! Stripped of honorary titles based on his life's work!

Anthropologist "scientists" decided something different from the life-long molecular biologist and geneticist.


“Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory acknowledges and appreciates Dr. Watson’s substantial scientific legacy, including his role as founding director of the Human Genome Project and his critical leadership in the development of research and education at the Laboratory during his prior tenure as Director and President,” the CSHL press release concludes. “Nonetheless, the statements he made in the documentary are completely and utterly incompatible with our mission, values, and policies, and require the severing of any remaining vestiges of his involvement.”


Did you get that last part? His scientific work was INCOMPATIBLE with their mission and values!?



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:33 AM
link   
a reply to: UKTruth

So you disagree that everyone should be equal under law? Who do you think should be considered superior? Who do you think should be considered inferior? I'm interested to know your hierarchy.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:33 AM
link   

originally posted by: Edumakated

That is hardly the same thing... not a good comparison.

It is more like if you are a teacher and state that black students on average seem to have behavioral issues. Someone says that is racist but never actually disproves what is stated and has teacher removed.


That's not a freedom of speech issue.

The imaginary teacher isn't going to be thrown in jail for saying that. Removing someone who doesn't appropriately represent the job culture is not removal of freedom of speech. When I worked for the government, I was free to go home and say to folks, "that place would be improved if someone dropped a nuke on it." If I was stupid enough to say that about a department where I did tech support, I would have been rebuked (back in the 1990's) and removed.

But I wouldn't be jailed.

Freedom of speech does NOT imply freedom from consequences.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:33 AM
link   

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: narrator


Are you saying all cultures are equal? The Sentinelese culture is not equal to American culture, mister "its just common sense". Not only in the sense of size, and how well it flourishes... but the fact that we are FAR more diverse and span multipule cultures. (which is a BETTER thing than all else, says the left, right? right? better. right?).


Perhaps you are trying to say all people are equal under the eyes of our creator, because that would be true.


"Mixing cultures will not lead to a higher quality of life, but a lower one" - King

So by your own reasoning with this quote from you: "we are far more diverse and span multiple cultures, which is a BETTER thing...", you disagree with King. So we are in agreement that he was in the wrong.

Cultures, in my opinion, aren't better or worse, just different. You can be in equal standing and still be very different. My 85 year old grandmother and my 18 year old nephew are incredibly different, but equal in the eyes of the law, etc.
That same thing can be extrapolated to groups of people. In my opinion, the culture(s) of the US are not any "better" than cultures anywhere else. Just different. "Better" is an entirely objective argument, so I view it as pointless.

"In the eyes of the creator" isn't really relevant to this discussion, but I don't believe in a creator, so I disagree with that assessment. People are equal, cultures are equal, and a creator has nothing to do with it.


So you think cultures that abuse women and gays are equal? What about a culture that doesnt have a problem with fraud and stealing property? Or a culture that is ok with polygamy? Or a culture that eats dogs?



How about cannibals? There's some ethnic food diversity. Is that OK? When they move to the US is it racist to bring that up?



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: LSU2018

As I asked another user:

If King was selected for jury duty and the accused in the case was a minority, based on his documented comments, do you think he would/should be allowed to serve on that jury?


Totally depends...



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: narrator
Someone has to say the same point that comes up every time there's a free speech thread, so I'll go ahead and do it before it gets lost in the thread:

He's free to say whatever wants, but he isn't free from the consequences of what he says.

I mean, read those quotes in the OP, objectively, and then say that he should still be heading a subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil Justice. He's quoted saying things that go directly against those ideals.

He's also free to believe whatever he wants, but again, not free from the consequences. Since he believes that not all cultures are equal (as he's been quoted as saying), he shouldn't be in charge of a civil justice committee.

It's just common sense.


Do you think the culture of a third world country is equal to the culture of a civilized country? Do you think China's culture is equal to America's culture?


Yes, I do. To both questions. There is no such thing as a superior culture, therefore, all are equal. Different, sure. But no better/worse.

As Xcalibur said, how do you judge a culture's superiority? I don't view cultures are superior or inferior, just "different". Obviously you do though, so...how do you judge a culture's superiority? In almost all measurable ways, the United States is NOT the superior culture on Earth. Longevity, happiness, wealth, peace, education, infant mortality, disease, etc etc etc. The only 2 measurable things we are at the top of the list are: incarceration rates and defense budget.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: narrator
Someone has to say the same point that comes up every time there's a free speech thread, so I'll go ahead and do it before it gets lost in the thread:

He's free to say whatever wants, but he isn't free from the consequences of what he says.

I mean, read those quotes in the OP, objectively, and then say that he should still be heading a subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil Justice. He's quoted saying things that go directly against those ideals.

He's also free to believe whatever he wants, but again, not free from the consequences. Since he believes that not all cultures are equal (as he's been quoted as saying), he shouldn't be in charge of a civil justice committee.

It's just common sense.


Do you think the culture of a third world country is equal to the culture of a civilized country? Do you think China's culture is equal to America's culture?


If these third world people and their cultures were the equal of the West, they wouldn't be trying to come here.

....And all blame and responsibility for their situations will be projected onto the White man.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: narrator


Are you saying all cultures are equal? The Sentinelese culture is not equal to American culture, mister "its just common sense". Not only in the sense of size, and how well it flourishes... but the fact that we are FAR more diverse and span multipule cultures. (which is a BETTER thing than all else, says the left, right? right? better. right?).


Perhaps you are trying to say all people are equal under the eyes of our creator, because that would be true.


"Mixing cultures will not lead to a higher quality of life, but a lower one" - King

So by your own reasoning with this quote from you: "we are far more diverse and span multiple cultures, which is a BETTER thing...", you disagree with King. So we are in agreement that he was in the wrong.

Cultures, in my opinion, aren't better or worse, just different. You can be in equal standing and still be very different. My 85 year old grandmother and my 18 year old nephew are incredibly different, but equal in the eyes of the law, etc.
That same thing can be extrapolated to groups of people. In my opinion, the culture(s) of the US are not any "better" than cultures anywhere else. Just different. "Better" is an entirely subjective argument, so I view it as pointless.

"In the eyes of the creator" isn't really relevant to this discussion, but I don't believe in a creator, so I disagree with that assessment. People are equal, cultures are equal, and a creator has nothing to do with it.


it's good to know that you think a culture that tosses gays off of rooftops is equal to a culture that doesn't throw gays off of rooftops. It's good to know you think a culture that beheads a man, woman, or child for not believing in allah is equal to a culture that doesn't behead you for being one of many religions or non religious.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: Edumakated
Notice none of the people saying he should be removed actuality disputed anything he said as being false.

We are at a point where feelings matter more than facts and logic.

This is why we can't have rational and logical debates on policy.


It should go without saying that people think it's wrong. I mean, that's why HIS OWN PARTY kicked him out of the committee he was a part of.

People think he's wrong. That should be obvious, and in your own words, rational and logical, to see.


Republicans lost their balls a long time ago. They are more concerned with protecting their interest than defending someone they know may be telling the truth.



new topics

top topics



 
17
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join