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CNN legal analyst Areva Martin accuses David Webb of ‘white privilege’- he’s black

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posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 07:27 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: sirhillarybray

Yeah, I'm defensive about "white privilege." I'm about as defensive about it as I would be if a known serial killer were holding a gun to my head.

As it is being used, as evidenced by Martin's own statements, it is an automatic black mark against someone who happens to be white. That's all it is. If there is such a thing as actual "white privilege," it is made moot by the fact that the term is applied to anyone that disagrees with the applier as long as their skin is pale... in this case, even when one's skin is not so pale. It's been weaponized just like "racist" was weaponized.

So, anyone claiming that there is something wrong with being defensive about the misuse of the term is being purposely deceitful and malicious.

TheRedneck
It’s the new original sin.

Want to know what really began to make me question modern liberalism?

I’ve spent the last 13 odd years working on and studying justice orientated subjects: education, food security, affordable housing, and now labor rights for low income and at risk communities. I even worked in a research lab that researched education, class, and racial justice.

I’ve even been called an sjw by other liberals.

Even though people know all this and have even worked with me on these things, it’s still never good enough for many sjws. I’m still questioned on my knowledge and credentials, periodically insulted for being a white male, or dismissed, etc.

I’m told I know less than people with little experience or study, because of my race.

I did what they said, to educate myself and work for justice.

If a white person cannot be just, “woke,” or respected, even if they dedicate countless years and sacrifice to fight for justice, then I think that’s wrong and extremely toxic.
edit on 16-1-2019 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: sirhillarybray

Yeah, I'm defensive about "white privilege." I'm about as defensive about it as I would be if a known serial killer were holding a gun to my head.

As it is being used, as evidenced by Martin's own statements, it is an automatic black mark against someone who happens to be white. That's all it is. If there is such a thing as actual "white privilege," it is made moot by the fact that the term is applied to anyone that disagrees with the applier as long as their skin is pale... in this case, even when one's skin is not so pale. It's been weaponized just like "racist" was weaponized.

So, anyone claiming that there is something wrong with being defensive about the misuse of the term is being purposely deceitful and malicious.

TheRedneck


You can't just decide that white privilege is made moot by the acknowledgement of it's existence. The term can be over applied, misused, and distorted (like many terms) but that does not alter it's affect on society. The defensive tone is generally used as a wall to prevent any actual discourse on the subject, as displayed above.
edit on 16-1-2019 by sirhillarybray because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 10:27 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
In which sense?

Even if white privilege does exist, it’s way over exaggerated and abused as a concept.

Sjws literally claim that Corey Booker is less privileged than an impoverished trailer park white kid in the Appalachians with a single drug addicted mother.

I’ve had multiple people professionally tell me I’m not highly qualified nor have had to work hard, because I’m blonde and white. Often the same have a small fraction of my experience and education.

From what I’ve seen most “privilege” is from wealth and connections. Class.

In my last job without any doubt people of color and women whose parents were highly connected, or whom themselves had worked on political campaigns and knew politicians, were treated way better, had the same jobs or higher level with LESS qualifications, and were promoted over others. THATs privilege. There were people who had the same job as me, when by their own admission it was their first real job, with a bachelors degree. I had almost 10 yrs exp and two masters degrees. One was the son of a politician. Another was the daughter of a major political donor. Black and Jewish respectively.


There's all sorts of privilege. Your post reads as if you are not terribly familiar with the concept you are attempting to deride. And again, the attempts to dismiss its effects based on what you consider to be over exaggeration might seem like sound message board logic, in the real world not so much.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:31 PM
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I busted a nut to have what little I own, worked for and paid for by myself.
I struggle to keep afloat as many do.
I don't get scholarships based exclusively on my race.
I don't get race based government payments for simply being born or because my great great great great grand father suffered some injustice 200+ years ago.

Can I please have some of that white privilege I was supposed to be born with?
Be nice to wake up to the servants and huge bank account I was meant to have exited my mothers vagina with for once instead of getting up each morning to take a dump and go to work to pay my bills.


I really am beginning to hate all humans and the level of stupidity they show in 2019 regardless of race, gender or creed.
Oh no, now I am a bigot of some form I suppose?



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 06:33 AM
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originally posted by: sirhillarybray

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: sirhillarybray

Yeah, I'm defensive about "white privilege." I'm about as defensive about it as I would be if a known serial killer were holding a gun to my head.

As it is being used, as evidenced by Martin's own statements, it is an automatic black mark against someone who happens to be white. That's all it is. If there is such a thing as actual "white privilege," it is made moot by the fact that the term is applied to anyone that disagrees with the applier as long as their skin is pale... in this case, even when one's skin is not so pale. It's been weaponized just like "racist" was weaponized.

So, anyone claiming that there is something wrong with being defensive about the misuse of the term is being purposely deceitful and malicious.

TheRedneck


You can't just decide that white privilege is made moot by the acknowledgement of it's existence. The term can be over applied, misused, and distorted (like many terms) but that does not alter it's affect on society. The defensive tone is generally used as a wall to prevent any actual discourse on the subject, as displayed above.


for a long time, the Black people have battled against having their self worth determined by their skin color. Much progress has been made on that front. But when you turn that around and judge white men solely by the color of their skin, you are doing the exact same thing. We taught ourselves that doing that was racist. We know know that was wrong, and in fact racist. Therefore you, are in fact racist. We shun those types in open society. On discussion boards such as this, we notice them, and treat them accordingly. If you are proud of being racist, that's on you.
edit on 17-1-2019 by network dude because: bad spler



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 08:50 AM
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originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo
I busted a nut to have what little I own, worked for and paid for by myself.
I struggle to keep afloat as many do.
I don't get scholarships based exclusively on my race.
I don't get race based government payments for simply being born or because my great great great great grand father suffered some injustice 200+ years ago.

Can I please have some of that white privilege I was supposed to be born with?
Be nice to wake up to the servants and huge bank account I was meant to have exited my mothers vagina with for once instead of getting up each morning to take a dump and go to work to pay my bills.


I really am beginning to hate all humans and the level of stupidity they show in 2019 regardless of race, gender or creed.
Oh no, now I am a bigot of some form I suppose?


I'm not sure if this is an accidental strawman, or trolling. White privilege does not mean you are entitled to success or wealth. I'd like to add that "injustice" didn't end 200 years ago, heck it didn't end in the 60's during the Civil Rights Movement.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:04 AM
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I’ve studied and worked on justice issues extensively.

Please don’t sjw-splain to me.

a reply to: sirhillarybray


edit on 17-1-2019 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:11 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: sirhillarybray

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: sirhillarybray

Yeah, I'm defensive about "white privilege." I'm about as defensive about it as I would be if a known serial killer were holding a gun to my head.

As it is being used, as evidenced by Martin's own statements, it is an automatic black mark against someone who happens to be white. That's all it is. If there is such a thing as actual "white privilege," it is made moot by the fact that the term is applied to anyone that disagrees with the applier as long as their skin is pale... in this case, even when one's skin is not so pale. It's been weaponized just like "racist" was weaponized.

So, anyone claiming that there is something wrong with being defensive about the misuse of the term is being purposely deceitful and malicious.

TheRedneck


You can't just decide that white privilege is made moot by the acknowledgement of it's existence. The term can be over applied, misused, and distorted (like many terms) but that does not alter it's affect on society. The defensive tone is generally used as a wall to prevent any actual discourse on the subject, as displayed above.


for a long time, the Black people have battled against having their self worth determined by their skin color. Much progress has been made on that front. But when you turn that around and judge white men solely by the color of their skin, you are doing the exact same thing. We taught ourselves that doing that was racist. We know know that was wrong, and in fact racist. Therefore you, are in fact racist. We shun those types in open society. On discussion boards such as this, we notice them, and treat them accordingly. If you are proud of being racist, that's on you.


No one is judging anyone for being white. Acknowledging and understanding socio-economics and it's patterns that exist within society is not racism. It's the sort of concept that leads to something like the NFL's Rooney Rule, where In a league comprised of 90% minority players there were no to very few minority coaches.Why? Because white guys were just accustomed to hiring other white guys. But wowsers after the Rooney Rule you see more minority coaches! And some of them are pretty good, what do you know!

Now, that system isn't perfect, and some bad coaches will be hired but something had to be done in the interest of fairness. Similarly other systems and programs attempt to make things more fair and they aren't perfect either, though they do exist for similar reasons. You aren't any less racist for choosing to keep your head in the clouds and ignoring the issues presented by the people around you. To be clear I'm not calling you a racist as you called me, because for starters I don't know you, but I'd like to point out the fallacy in your position.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:21 AM
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You did *say* that though the content of your commentary does not bear that out. Especially in regards to the last paragraph where you attempt to compare the impact of white privilege to that of blood relationship, politics and money. You literally cannot have a grip on what you are attempting to discuss.

Regardless let's use actual words to express our opinions instead of half baked acronyms and social media jargon.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: sirhillarybray


You can't just decide that white privilege is made moot by the acknowledgement of it's existence.

I can decide for myself whether I believe it or not. From where I'm sitting, "white privilege" does not exist. I am white and I see no privilege; ergo, the addition of the racial component is in error. Perhaps "privilege" exists (I'm sure it does), but it's not based solely on skin color.

The story this thread is based on reinforces that point. "White privilege" is simply a go-to argument, much like the racism card used to be.


The term can be over applied, misused, and distorted (like many terms) but that does not alter it's affect on society.

Oh, yes, it certainly does alter its effect on society! As I mentioned above, the racism card was abused for many years, coming to not mean racism but rather "I don't agree with you and I'm not smart enough to explain why." As a result, it does appear racism, true racism, is on the rise once again.

Down here, we call it "crying wolf." If one abuses a term long enough and frequently enough, that term loses it's power.


The defensive tone is generally used as a wall to prevent any actual discourse on the subject, as displayed above.

How about a wall to prevent any attack using the term? If you want to have discourse on the subject, I'm good with that. If you want to just hit me over the head with a label that does not apply in the first place, I am NOT good with it.

That's not discourse.

Metaphorically, if someone says he is proud of his gun and wants to show it to me, and is reserved and polite, I will be interested in seeing it. If that someone is going around shooting others and then shows the gun to me, I will be pointing one back in his direction. I don't give a damn if he complains about me doing it.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:54 AM
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originally posted by: sirhillarybray
You did *say* that though the content of your commentary does not bear that out. Especially in regards to the last paragraph where you attempt to compare the impact of white privilege to that of blood relationship, politics and money. You literally cannot have a grip on what you are attempting to discuss.

Regardless let's use actual words to express our opinions instead of half baked acronyms and social media jargon.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

No, I have a strong understanding. You seem to have an ideological view.

I pointed out the class issue because now days, it is asserted in the establishment liberal side (not necessarily real leftists), that racial privilege in America trumps social economic class privilege. For a while there numerous authors were even saying that because of this, it was racist to discuss economic class issues. That is misguided and many people including traditional leftists think that powerful interests gladly want us to only focus on racial and gender issues because that’s less of a threat to the power structure.

In fact, plenty of serious scholars and activists have stated this, that this idea that all we need to do is get women or people of color to succeed in the business, government, and military world, is dangerous and in fact tokenism. I get that this is a reductionist view of social justice, but tons of people act like that.

Also, often due to this ideology impoverished people that are Asian or white get ignored.

One of my black colleagues who worked on the Obama campaigns was shocked to learn post 2016 about all the white poverty in let’s say the Appalachians. She was so steeped in a ‘social justice’ echo chamber that this was ignored. That’s absurd.


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posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:59 AM
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Here’s the thing, plenty of people judge individuals for being white. I’ve experienced that first hand. There are absolutely people who say “yes all white people,” and even say that relevant discrimination doesn’t matter because racism requires institutional power.

Obviously, that doesn’t mean all people believe nor say this.

You are talking as if you are some kind of expert, in declarative terms. I often find that those who think there are no flaws in either liberal behavior, nor ideology, are the very same people who aren’t actually working professionally on relevant issues. Or, they truly are ideologues who cannot handle any debate or constructive criticism.
a reply to: sirhillarybray


edit on 17-1-2019 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)

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posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14


Here’s the thing, plenty of people judge individuals for being white. I’ve experienced that first hand.

That doesn’t mean all people do.

I am convinced that those who do are suffering from a type of projection psychosis.

There seems to be something in the human psyche that refuses to believe that life can possibly be any different that one's own experiences. Someone in Alabama cannot fathom driving (successfully anyway) through a foot of snow, nor can they imagine the actual cost of living in New York. People in New York have no concept of how the weather affects our way of life here; they come down here and want to know about our furnaces when it is far more efficient for us to use heat pumps.

Those white folk who claim white privilege exists seem to be those who themselves have it. They simply cannot comprehend the concept of anyone who is white not having the same white privilege they have. Therefore, in their mind, anyone who is white and yet claims to not be privileged due to that fact must be lying. It's just so obvious that they must be privileged due to the color of their skin, because everyone experiences life exactly like I do!

The sad truth is that often these are the same people who used the term racist until it was long crushed into a zillion inconsequential fragments, because they are themselves racist and cannot comprehend anyone else not being racist. Now they have switched to the term "white privilege" using the exact same tactics.

Privilege is class based, and pretty much always has been. At one time, there was black dis-privilege, but a large part of that was because most black folk were also in a lower class on the ladder of social position. That, of course, has changed for the most part (although there are still problems in the inner cities). But anyone who calls out others for white privilege has not evolved with the rest of the country, and now are dragging the rest of the country backwards because they cannot see the truth clearly in front of their eyes.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 10:52 AM
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Because these ideas are the Truth, and are on the side of justice, anybody criticizing any aspect are the new heretics, daring to question the revealed word. Because it’s the Truth, then logically there are only a few possibilities if you do question:

You are racist, dishonest, ignorant, or blinded by privilege. If you are a person of color then it’s that you either have sold out as an Uncle Tom, or have ‘internalized whiteness.’

That’s basically the response. It’s not possible that they are not fully correct.

a reply to: TheRedneck


edit on 17-1-2019 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: sirhillarybray

Straw man? Trolling? Really?

Sorry I did not list a phone books worth of examples. But I did not just joke at wealth and success.

Not encountered any time being Caucasian, or having a Caucasian appearance got me any advantages.( I am a little mixed race)

Didn't stop cops from falsely arresting me on several occasions. And my 'male privilage definitely' didn't help me. Here being male actually increases the chance of being arrested in a situation.... but let us save the sexism for another day.

I didn't get into classes at school and paid for for being white.

By 15 I was in college. We had a payment here for people studying called "Austudy" you had to be 16 to get it though.
So I had to pay out of my own pocket.

Now if I was Aboriginal, I could of got the equivalent "Abstudy". Which you could get at 14.

Kids I knew who were non-aboriginal and missed classes etc got cut off. Aboriginal kids I know who did the same, basically 'wagged' for the entire year, did not get cut off.

I once went through some hard times. Had to apply for public housing. Virtually living on the streets. Got told I'd have to wait up to 3 years to get a place.

Seen Aboriginals get a place in a day in the same circumstances. Through the "Aboriginal Housing Department"

There is two Questions most government forms here begin with.

Are you Australian?
Are you Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander?

The line of questioning is vastly different depending on which you pick.

If I am on unemployment benefits and do not look for work. I get cut off.
Yet I know plenty of Aboriginals who do not work, just drink all day, yet always have their welfare benefits.
Even weirder is when I am working, they still have nicer more expensive stuff than me.

Here we have exclusively "Black" TV stations. I do not see exclusively white ones though.
Black Legal Aid and just Legal Aid for everyone else.
I see a lot of specific race this and gender that titles on things here and around the world.
But I rarely if ever see anything with "White" or "Male" or "Straight" in the title. When people have, people lost their minds.

And I see very similar in other countries like the U.S occurring.

So if someone gets an easy life, gets things handed to them based solely on their genetics. Would that not be a privilege?
If they have special services based purely on race, would that not be a privilege?

Doesn't seem like a privilege that I have to go to work and earn everything I have day in and day out.

So please do explain to me exactly what white privilege is then? As you seemed to neglect doing in your post?

So when I see people sitting around playing xbox and playstation, living for free, in better clothes than I could dream of, or afford. (On the dole but every t-shirt in the wardrobe is $100 or more) What injustice are they facing exactly?

The injustice of society expecting them to be truly equal?
The injustice of # they weren't even born to experience?

Please explain how anyone in a western country today, regardless of race, who has the same opportunities as each other these people are oppressed and suffering injustice any more so or less than anyone else?

Please avoid using 'straw man' as you put it, like where they suffer the consequences of their own actions and decisions.
I know that will limit you, but I am sure you can do it.

Give a valid, sound and logical argument and you WILL change my mind.

Yes there is racial and gender based privilege in this world. On that we can at least agree.
But it aint whites and males who have it.

Let me guess, Obama only became president because he's actually half white?
(amazing a lot of people do not seem to know this)

I see an awful lot of non-jailed, successful black people around for being so oppressed in 2019 I have to say.
I also see a lot of white people in jail and unsuccessful too for them being so privileged.

I look forward to your teaching me.
edit on 17-1-2019 by AtomicKangaroo because: typos and words.



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: sirhillarybray

"white privilege" is used by racists. It exists to discredit white people and their accomplishments. It declares they haven't achieved anything legitimately but, their skin color got them what they have. You losers don't believe in meritocracy, you are full throttle into the mindless cult of diversity.


edit on 17-1-2019 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: ker2010

cult of special treatment. aka privilege more likely.

It's funny every person I met who screams about equality always seems to want more than everyone else.
Treat them truly equally and you're a racist,bigot, homophobe or sexist or something equally nonsensical.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
edit on 17-1-2019 by AtomicKangaroo because: forgot words



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:21 AM
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Good points.

Yes most people extrapolate their own beliefs and experience to the world. This can be changed through training in statistics, research, and critical thinking. For example in both data analytics and and science research one is trained to only extrapolate or generalize when the sample or evidence allows it.

There are some ideological roots that illuminate the issue too though.

First and foremost, the monolithic nature and supremacy of white privilege is taught as a primary article of truth in modern American liberalism. To a certain degree many people who say it are just regurgitating it.

I think that yes there is a certain amount of projection too, and as you say often ironically by more privileged white people. I have this pet theory that many wealthy people like racial focused privilege theories over class because it diffuses blame to whole racial groups rather than putting the lens on their own power and wealth.

A third aspect is that current identity politics absorbed elements of Marxist class warfare, but applied to race, and post modernism. What this means is that as racial identity classes, we have different ‘class consciousness,’ due to different racial experiences. For this reason poc are always more woke regardless of study and work, and white people conversely are not.

Many would agree with me here that it seems also a bit self serving for people to just try to diversify corporate, military, ngo, or gov leadership as ‘social justice,’ but not address corrupt or oppressive systems themselves. “Let’s not stop bombing countries: let’s applaud when women and people of color lead it!” So woke...



a reply to: TheRedneck


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posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

Very few people want TRUE equality and only want it when it benefits them. Women want true equality until they punch or slap a man in the face then get punch/slapped back. Then the but im a female card is played. Like you said most people don't want equality but privilege based on the situation.

edit on 17-1-2019 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'll put it even simpler.

If you got rid of race, religion, left and right and made every one truly and indisputably equal tomorrow.

People would be killing each other over Football Teams and TV Shows, heck we've even persecuted over handedness.

You'd literally have people saying # like "I am opressed because I am a Clevand Browns supporter!!!"

I'm left handed. My people used to be oppressed......

Sad fact is the majority of humans regardless of race, gender or creed are greedy selfish creatures who want more than the next person with the least amount of effort.




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