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Brexit, Today is the Vote!

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posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 06:18 PM
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Whodathunkdatcheese

Parliament is sovereign and has been for nearly four hundred years.


Clearly, the British people can see what they need to make redundant. It is laughable that 650 people can claim sovereignty over 65 million. It has no real moral computation. In reality, with sheer force of powerful logic, only the people as a whole can be sovereign, because that is from where sovereignty draws its power. It is an extension of the sovereignty of 'self', of the individual's sovereignty over his/her own mind and body. For instance, every American draws upon this principle to support their freedoms and liberties, they enshrined it into their Constitution. It is how they can make the claim...'land of the free', its degree of reality notwithstanding.

How can we make Parliament's sovereignty redundant? We turn to monarchy and allow it to have the right powers to deny Parliament any course of action that harms or betrays the country, which in this case (in fact, any case, anywhere) the people as a whole always are the country.

Countries are founded on principles. In our contemporary time, principles are seen as inconvenient and anachronistic, even idealistic, but that is exactly what they are meant to be, but have no power unless you are willing to fight and die by them. Unfortunately, most British people have lost the will to fight for their freedoms and liberties, even their sovereign identity. Which is why we are in this Brexit mess and at the mercy of globalist agendas.
edit on 15/1/19 by elysiumfire because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 06:22 PM
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I voted leave.
But I also want a say in how that plays out.

If it is a choice between a No Deal and being left isolated under the regime of The Tory Death Squad, or, running back into the arms of useless pen-pushers, but overall a not-much-danger bureaucratic dictatorship, then long live the EU.

And to be honest I don’t think we will get a say.

Because the Tory Death Squad have proven time and time again they’ll say anything, at anytime, to stay clinging onto power, even as people starve to death or get told they’re fit to work with a Stage 5 Terminal Cancer diagnosis.


- Yeah, the EU is sh*t.
- Yeah, I’d rather have left.
- NO. Not under those circumstances!!!

Consider my vote, and millions more, rescinded until someone competent has a better idea than isolation, Death and blue passports.
edit on 15-1-2019 by Hazardous1408 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 06:24 PM
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Double
edit on 15-1-2019 by Hazardous1408 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 06:36 PM
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The whole labour party are worse than useless when they've failed to support an at least half reasonable deal which was intended to secure the British voters wishes and retain a balance that would have suited most . Perhaps we should table no confidence votes on all their MPs bar 3 .
Corbyn is a dark horse who is threatening British interests and he is a EU remainer despite the doubts . It's because he says one thing with his face and the other with his lips as and when it suits him .
The speaker is no better what a traitor .

Sit it out for no deal - leave - and then make a deal . You dont make arrangements with your current landlord about where you're going to live in the future , and why bother trying to please someone who wants to punish you on your way out?

We've got the backup and resources to make a no deal work , that's a fact and it is likely to be that way , the current arrangements are simply untenable and the will is there to break the tie , no matter what .



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: DoctorBluechip

'man makes great business when he rids himself of a turd' - edward plantagenet

i'm fine with no deal and automatic default into wto terms as a base to build off.


f



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408
I voted leave.
But I also want a say in how that plays out.

If it is a choice between a No Deal and being left isolated under the regime of The Tory Death Squad, or, running back into the arms of useless pen-pushers, but overall a not-much-danger bureaucratic dictatorship, then long live the EU.

And to be honest I don’t think we will get a say.

Because the Tory Death Squad have proven time and time again they’ll say anything, at anytime, to stay clinging onto power, even as people starve to death or get told they’re fit to work with a Stage 5 Terminal Cancer diagnosis.


- Yeah, the EU is sh*t.
- Yeah, I’d rather have left.
- NO. Not under those circumstances!!!

Consider my vote, and millions more, rescinded until someone competent has a better idea than isolation, Death and blue passports.



Nice try.. you broke it. You pay for it...
ps.. it seems pretty fun at the time no?



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: DoctorBluechip

That is an absolute fantasy world you’ve pulled out of thin air.

Our nation was pretty much on it’s knees before the Brexit and the austerity measures have now become dystopian in real time.

For you to believe we are good with No Deal, and have “the resources” (whatever the hell that means) to work it out, isn’t even laughable. It’s just dangerously delusional hogwash.



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: Pandaram

Not really “fun”. But I’d have said necessary on the day of the vote.

I still knew it had to be ironed out though, and arranged for a good exit.
And I kept in mind that without those guarantees then the “will of the people” doesn’t, and should never, override the well-being of the people.

Scrap it. We have paid for it enough now. We painted a giant dunce cap on ourselves for believing our government’s leadership could actually do a good job of at least one thing. I’m happy to be humbled and knocked off that pedestal.

I’m not happy to scream “but my democratic vote” just to spite my own face. Neither is literally a single other person I know who voted to leave. Mistakes were made. We own it.

The ones crying about a re-do know they’ve lost the numbers they once had. Cos not everyone who voted out is a stubborn fool who thinks we still live in the invincible British Empire.
edit on 15-1-2019 by Hazardous1408 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 07:05 PM
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It simply boil down to this.. uk is fudged. Eu is going to make a example out of uk.

Today pension cut was announced.and universal credit rolling in this month. And nobody want to rent houses to people on dole. Pensioners and the dole sponges the two main groups in leave vote.

Time to pay fir your stupidity ..lol



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I was under the impression that British had voted to leave eu already. So assists in parliament can't make there minds up so what just cut ties and bed done with it . It may be rough but you have your own agriculture base ,your own oil fields vast fishing grounds, a manufacturing base that can be boistered plus lots of trading partners in the Americas and with their commonwealth members tell Merkel to go eat some brats and sauerkraut England will be jusdt fine.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

The TORY's were/are planning to change the boundary's to make it even less MP's - every time they do so they marginalize working class and poorer neighborhood's so democracy in the UK is a sham and in fact we do not have democracy but something else entirely called a Parliamentary Monarchy.

The ONLY democratic party in the UK is actually the Labour Party which under Corbyn has been trying to give it's members more say on how the party proceed's while he had to work against VERY firm opposition from the residual New Labour MP's and members as well as a predominantly right wing controlled media in the country.

Meanwhile the Liberal Democrat's (have never lived up to that Democrat claim) have tried to play the nations dis-unification to there advantage though they have no real hope of ever gaining power and the only time they have ever had any say in government was when they backed the Tory's since Clegg had a personal dislike for Gordon Brown AND he was also a friendly with Cameron since they were class mates (well to be fair who never disliked that one he was a creep that should never have been in charge of the country and only got there by ousting another NEW Labour creep by the name of Blair - in fact he was regarded as something of a fat cat himself and most voters of the Labour party did not like the guy at all so different to John Smith) and went entirely against his party's electorate most of whom were actually disgruntled Labour voters fed up with the Blairite years of soft thatcherite inspired conservatism that went so hard against the real Labour Grain - another party that until Corbyn came along was ignoring it's electorate.

And as for the Tory's themselves, well the Conservative party has two group's that work together - the Conservatives themselves whom are mostly really identical to what "New Labour" 'was' and represented and the Tory's whom actually run and own the party whom are the Eton crowd like old Cameron burning a fifty pound note under the nose of a down and out as part of his old Eton/Oxford day's bullingdon club initiation (the bullingdon club began as the hellfire club and was a group of high born British satanists back in the 1700's though today they try to claim they were merely pagans though the fact is that club or rather cult is still around today and linked to the highest echelons of power in our nation through the Tory's) - to show his disdain for the poor and that he was one of the Elite.
So they are also - DEFINITELY - COMPLETELY not a democratic party at all and let's be fair they are the one's that got us into this whole mess in the first place, flaming bunch of hooray harry's idiot's.


Now as to the point why do we need to get out of Europe.

Europe is a leaky tub not run by it's people but by it's parliament which in turn is rather less democratic than it likes to portray itself, is really owned by a very few ultra wealthy elite whom own the TROIKA and which is just as ready to bankrupt and destroy a nation as it is to build one up as it strives to create a general level of poverty across the block and drive down labor costs in order to ensure that the dream of the Troika of becoming new Borgas become's a reality.

The borders or Europe are too porous and have led to a vast influx of Islamic settlers conquering what they never could under the ottoman empire and in less than 40 years they have taken more territory than in the previous 400 (We already had plenty of asian migrant's here that is nothing to do with Europe actually but to do with a certain Lord Mountbatten then the last viceroy of India inviting them to come and live with us during partition, an invite that is still bringing them today - they were then funneled into the working class community's creating division were there had been harmony and destroying as the Tory's had intended all along the voter base of Labour - a master stroke by the Tory's blame Labour for what they had done and make the Labour voters turn conservative - it backfired eventually on the Tory's though as these migrant's are now US as British as we are AND mostly have forgotten any misguided gratefulness they may have once had toward the conservatives and vote Labour these day's like most of us).

Oh you look too deep into that well of politics and it won't look back but it is enough to drive anyone insane when they realize just how evil the majority of politicians are whether here or over in the EU.

The ONLY reason we would want to stay in the EU and not get the hell out of it - perhaps to start another better EU in the future is to try to save an already doomed project and keep those MEP's rolling in dosh to our own detriment so in fact we would not want to.

But coming out with no deal IS going to trash our economy big style, think food riot's, job centers burned to the ground, mass strikes and the 1970's all over again and that despite the draconian anti protest law's enacted by thatcher and her successors will probably last well over 10 years while our society will fragment due to our internal inequality's between the have's and the have not's - BUT that once again was Thatcher so the Tory's whom said she wanted to restore the Class system, you know landlord's living in a local manor house with maid's and servant's at there beck and call while the poor live in abject poverty a family to a room in slum tenement's so in other word's the Tory's always wanted to roll back the clock on our democracy - what democracy we did have that is.

Usually in our country more individual's vote for labor than do for the Conservatives but the way the boundary's are rigged the conservatives always get in, so as the Lib Dem's originally wanted I agree we need proportional representation - this WOULD boost the power of the Lib Dem's so they have a reason and it would cost labor some seat's but it would cost the Tory's a hell of a lot more seat's and marginalize THEM.

edit on 16-1-2019 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I was under the impression that British had voted to leave eu already. So assists in parliament can't make there minds up so what just cut ties and bed done with it . It may be rough but you have your own agriculture base ,your own oil fields vast fishing grounds, a manufacturing base that can be boistered plus lots of trading partners in the Americas and with their commonwealth members tell Merkel to go eat some brats and sauerkraut England will be jusdt fine.


England probably will be fine, well London anyway. The rest of us, not so much.

We only have 3 options now...

1. Theresa May brings her deal before parliament again and gets it through (let's face it, this won't happen and she can't amend the deal, the E.U. has already put the kaibosh on that happening so there will be no other deal or variation on the deal that got voted down yesterday.

2. No Deal (anyone who thinks this is a good idea just wants to cut off their nose to spite their face, only some Tories will benefit from No Deal, hell I bet some are salivating at the prospect)

3. No Brexit (Let's face it, that would lead to all kinds of nastiness from some of the 52% that voted that we shouldn't stay in the EU (nobody voted to leave the EU, that wasn't the question)

We're screwed either way. I don't think anyone knows how this train wreck will end but it's going to end with half the country peeved off at the result, remember how close the Referendum was.

Whatever happens, I hope it does so soon so we can start to rebuild...



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:16 AM
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While I don't personally feel leaving the EU would be in Britain's best interest I don't believe a second referendum should be held. The people voted, their votes should be honored. I've heard some claim that Parliament is sovereign, the referendum wasn't necessarily binding, doesn't matter to me. What message will you be sending if you just decide to ignore the last vote and do it over again? That's not good for democracy at all.

If there's no-deal then let it be. That's the path voters chose in 2016. I honestly wish the best for our cousins... and for the EU.... to new horizons I guess.




posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:18 AM
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And let me just add, the British are a strong people. You'll stand on your own two feet following this. Trade will be restored, deals will be made. There may be pain at first for such a hard break off... but hey it's sometimes necessary for the change you want. Britain will survive.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:22 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

First of all, May's 'deal' is dead.


2. No Deal (anyone who thinks this is a good idea just wants to cut off their nose to spite their face, only some Tories will benefit from No Deal, hell I bet some are salivating at the prospect)


Lots of us want a No Deal - and I certainly aren't a Tory! - for the simple reason it provides a quick, clean cut and then we can get on with re-building this country.

The current situation is a shambles and just projects a feeling of fear and uncertainty.



3. No Brexit (Let's face it, that would lead to all kinds of nastiness from some of the 52% that voted that we shouldn't stay in the EU (nobody voted to leave the EU, that wasn't the question)


As opposed to the 'nastiness' spouted by the 48% and Project Fear?

The wording was;

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?"

www.electoralcommission.org.uk... m-question-assessment

That was pretty straight forward to me - I voted NO which to me, and anyone else with even a basic, rudimentary understanding of the English language, meant I was voting to come out of the EU.
To suggest anything other is ridiculous.



We're screwed either way.


Possibly.....as it stands at present we're cast adrift in no mans land - is that a mixed metaphor?

Its a truly sorry state of affairs when literally no-one wants the Prime Minister's job.



I don't think anyone knows how this train wreck will end but it's going to end with half the country peeved off at the result, remember how close the Referendum was.


What's pissed me off most is the sheer incompetence of our elected officials and their arrogance and conceit in their determination to assert their authority over the will of the people.
Regardless of how close it was there was still a clear majority for coming out of the EU - Parliament should unequivocally back that and ensure it is acted upon.
They have spectacularly failed to do so.
And they now insist that they have the final say and not the people despite their blatant dishonesty and incompetence.



Whatever happens, I hope it does so soon so we can start to rebuild...


On that we can agree my friend.
And we need to go about the business of re-uniting this fractured country and concentrating on the many things that unite us rather than the few things that divide us.

Our electoral and parliamentary procedures have failed us miserably and the people who infest that system have been shown up for the scumbags they truly are.....time for real change methinks.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:27 AM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian
While I don't personally feel leaving the EU would be in Britain's best interest I don't believe a second referendum should be held. The people voted, their votes should be honored. I've heard some claim that Parliament is sovereign, the referendum wasn't necessarily binding, doesn't matter to me. What message will you be sending if you just decide to ignore the last vote and do it over again? That's not good for democracy at all.

If there's no-deal then let it be. That's the path voters chose in 2016. I honestly wish the best for our cousins... and for the EU.... to new horizons I guess.



I never really understand this argument. Given that 2.5 years have passed and that we now know what the options on leaving are what would be any way undemocratic about another referendum?

Polls now suggest that the clear majority of people oppose leaving, the idea that we should go ahead with the economic masochism of Brexit based just on a narrow majority from over 2 years ago is absurd.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:29 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn

aye but not everything that brexit brings?, I think there are a specific set of things that appeal to you and others about brexit
but the whole thing isnt exactly what everyone wants though!

it's basically a # sandwich , the government and rich pals in corp get to keep their money in offshore accounts, the poor get poorer , we build immigration controls , we control immigration and by that I mean "public opinion" on ethnic minorities that we drip feed into the UK so we can hate them exponentially until we bomb them!
we get told we will be better off, and BOOM everyone is sold out!

not all of Brexit appeals to everyone !
it's like buying a product and the product description online details an entirely different product from the one we are being sold



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:30 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn

and by quick clean cut you mean a 50 year long legal battle over every aspect of of our economy



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:42 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

Remember that Cameron the same IDIOT tory that brought the Brexit referendum in the first place had also already tied the UK into a deal with France to share our military with them - he was actually very pro EU and actually thought that the UK would vote FOR the EU allowing him to push through even more devastating right wing policy's and removing what was left of our welfare state after he had already mauled it to the verge of death.
He realized his devastating mistake - well he would wouldn't he AFTER the result's and then tendered his own resignation allowing the Tory's to cling onto power and realizing that the only way they could then retain power into the future was to somehow rig the next election - but he also realized the electorate are not that stupid, fool me once etc.
He had also ditched most of our Naval and Air force asset's prior to this which given the nasty nature of fish poachers from France and Portugal in the early day's of the EU and for a long time before it, often armed with gun's when our own fishermen were forbidden to carry them mean's that when we come out our fishermen will have a very hard time on there hand's with EU boat's chasing them out of there waters while poaching in OURS and no British naval assets to back up our right's while the French will be more than happy to send there warship's even into our territorial waters to back up THERE fishing boat's - this is not a may be or what if this is a definite outcome of this situation.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:47 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot



I never really understand this argument. Given that 2.5 years have passed and that we now know what the options on leaving are what would be any way undemocratic about another referendum?


Only a complete moron couldn't have foreseen difficulties in negotiating Brexit.
I more or less knew what the options would be and still voted for Brexit.....the same as the vast majority of people I know who voted for Brexit.

What we couldn't foresee - how we missed it I'll never know - was the duplicitous nature of our politicians and their determination to scupper Brexit.



Polls now suggest that the clear majority of people oppose leaving.....


Polls suggested the UK would vote to stay in the EU.
Polls suggested May would win the election by an avalanche.

Blah blah blah.

Polls have been proven to be very unreliable recently and are certainly no basis for refusing to enact a democratic referendum.



..... the idea that we should go ahead with the economic masochism of Brexit based just on a narrow majority from over 2 years ago is absurd.


First of all; my reasons for voting to come out of the EU are at least as relevant today as they were back then.
Secondly; a clear majority is all that was required.

We haven't implemented the first referendum so on what moral basis can its result be ignored and possibly overturned?
If the Remain vote wins a second referendum by an equal margin would Brexit campaigners calls for a third and deciding referendum be respected? Of course they wouldn't, there's no way on earth would you support such a thing...it'd be undemocratic right? So why should the result of the first be ignored?

Surely another referendum undermines the very principles of democracy.

If a second In/Out referendum is called we should cease all pretence of being a democracy and just let the political elites and their backers have total control without any interference from the dirty, unwashed masses.


edit on 16/1/19 by Freeborn because: grammar




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