#TheBestMenCanBe #Gillette

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Boadicea

I understand what you and the other women are saying. All your arguments are very reasoned and well thought out. But they only make sense in relation to the debate in the larger society as a whole.

Imagine you are watching TV and see this ad. Who are you going to tell your argument to? The television set? You are confronted with two and only two choices. Buy Gillette blades or buy a competitors blade.

So whose blades do you want? The one from the company that just aired a show presenting you as bullying and sexually harassing women? I don't believe so.

How about if they had a commercial showing stupid, nagging women acting unreasonable? Would you rush to buy their products? Please don't try to tell me yes. No one wants to patronize a company that casts them in this light.

Gillette's ad did not show any women being harassed, it was boy on boy bullying and adult men stepping in to stop the violence, which is the right thing to do.

So, don't buy their blades because they cast good men doing what is right.

a reply to: InTheLight

To fit in with the glowing positivity being displayed by everyone else?

Teehee.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position.

Actually, it did. If you refuse to call out the bullying, then you are supporting it by omission. "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." "All that's needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." "Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor." It's a fairly well known and long standing concept.

But I'm quite happy to hear your explanation. What exactly in the video was portrayed as "bullying" which, in your opinion, is part of "natural manhood." What exactly is being denied to boys that they need to be a productive and responsible and honorable man?

The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one. Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

Ask yourself. I bet you can figure it out.

Here's a hint... the OP is about men standing up to bullying by other men... you inferred that doing so denies boys their "natural manhood." You gave no different or distinctive or distinguishing explanation or description. If you cannot differentiate, how can we?

You still do not understand my point do you???

I have openly said that bullying is not part of manhood, didn't I?

However, boys fighting IS part of that manhood experience. Whether you or other women like that or not. It is the cold hard truth.

And the cold hard truth is that that type of behaviour is not acceptable and should be stopped - the same when girls fight, which they do too.

You are wrong, plain and simple, and part of the problem.

As I stated, you do not understand what it means to grow up and be a man.

You can't, yet you try to make blanket statements of what is right and wrong about something you can never fully understand. Are you that arrogant to think you know better than someone that actually experienced these things?

Your experiences are solely you own and do not speak for all.

And you discussions with the men in you life is NOT replacement for feeling these feelings and experiencing these things, EVER. If you think it is, then you are embracing a falsehood. Do you think I know every aspect of being a women because I grew up in a household with a mother and 3 sisters? Talking to them, seeing their trials an tribulations over the years?

NO, and I would not be so arrogant to assume that I know what it likes to grow from a girl to a woman.

Please open your eyes and be honest with yourself. You know NOTHING of what it truly means to be a boy growing into a man. And if the men in your life don't tell you this aspect it is because they are afraid to make waves. I am married, I understand that all too well.

I.E. You never sh*t where you eat.

Both my husband and son agree that bullying and boy on boy and man on man violence was and is still not acceptable. It is not arrogance that I happen to agree with them as well as Gillette's message, as so many other people do.

Not everyone on this thread is defensive and negative, so why join them? Reply to NthOther

a reply to: Krakatoa

You still do not understand my point do you???

Did you notice the freaking question marks all over my reply to you??? How am I supposed to understand it if you refuse to explain it???

Unlike you, I am not and have not made any assumptions. I have asked you repeatedly to explain, clarify, distinguish, etc.

But when I ask a clear and direct question -- repeatedly -- and you refuse to answer that clear and direct question with a clear and direct answer, and ESPECIALLY when you slink to the depths of insulting me, then it is crystal clear that you cannot defend your answer.

I have openly said that bullying is not part of manhood, didn't I? However, boys fighting IS part of that manhood experience. Whether you or other women like that or not. It is the cold hard truth.

Get over yourself and stop the mansplaining. Men don't live in a vacuum. I have brothers. I have a husband. I have raised a son. I was the KoolAid mom where ALL the boys in the neighborhood hung out all summer. There is a very big difference between roughhousing and bullying. I knew the difference and I made damn sure that every kid who walked through my door understood the difference. I also told them to suck it up when one got hurt during roughhousing... but if I saw any bullying, they had to deal with me. I showed them what real bullying is, and then gave them the choice of who they were going to be.

I was able to make the distinctions, explain those distinctions, demonstrate those distinctions, and demand better. So don't blow me off because I'm a woman who doesn't understand the cold hard truth. If YOU cannot step up to the same plate, then I'm a better "man" than you are.

I like the ad. The death of chivalry has been a great loss for masculinity.

a reply to: InTheLight

I'm trying to make light of the whole stupid thing. You're the one with your panties in a bunch.

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: InTheLight

I'm trying to make light of the whole stupid thing. You're the one with your panties in a bunch.

Really? Can you see through your screen?

a reply to: Boadicea

a reply to: InTheLight

Show me I'm wrong?

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: InTheLight

Show me I'm wrong?

You just have to believe me that I don't wear panties. Part of going Amazon woman and not shaving too.

a reply to: InTheLight

Switched to Depends already, huh?

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: InTheLight

Switched to Depends already, huh?

No need, my old body is working just fine. Especially my common sense.

Just grow a beard in protest.

originally posted by: eXia7
Just grow a beard in protest.

Don't most millenials and older millenials already don beards? Within my sphere of life I see many do.

a reply to: toms54

So you see Toms, it's all due to perspective.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa

You still do not understand my point do you???

Did you notice the freaking question marks all over my reply to you??? How am I supposed to understand it if you refuse to explain it???

Unlike you, I am not and have not made any assumptions. I have asked you repeatedly to explain, clarify, distinguish, etc.

But when I ask a clear and direct question -- repeatedly -- and you refuse to answer that clear and direct question with a clear and direct answer, and ESPECIALLY when you slink to the depths of insulting me, then it is crystal clear that you cannot defend your answer.

I have openly said that bullying is not part of manhood, didn't I? However, boys fighting IS part of that manhood experience. Whether you or other women like that or not. It is the cold hard truth.

Get over yourself and stop the mansplaining. Men don't live in a vacuum. I have brothers. I have a husband. I have raised a son. I was the KoolAid mom where ALL the boys in the neighborhood hung out all summer. There is a very big difference between roughhousing and bullying. I knew the difference and I made damn sure that every kid who walked through my door understood the difference. I also told them to suck it up when one got hurt during roughhousing... but if I saw any bullying, they had to deal with me. I showed them what real bullying is, and then gave them the choice of who they were going to be.

I was able to make the distinctions, explain those distinctions, demonstrate those distinctions, and demand better. So don't blow me off because I'm a woman who doesn't understand the cold hard truth. If YOU cannot step up to the same plate, then I'm a better "man" than you are.

I see that you know the difference between bullying and roughhousing (a valuable male bonding experience). However, there are others here that do not make that distinction, and that is the target of my discussion points. There are valid times when two boys fighting needs to be left to happen, and monitored to ensure no serious harm is done. It is a teaching exercise in standing up for oneself, and a form of building respect for other males.

Nothing that I said has supported or condoned bullying here, nothing.

What I have said is that the radical feminist movement has systematically attempted to remove that part of a boy growing up since ALL violent behavior is seen as wrong. Even those that involve a boy fighting back against bullying. The alternative is to rely upon the government (i.e. school system) to defend yourself now. It does not reach personal responsibility and defending oneself (or even others) when confronted with a bully.

How is deepening the reliance upon others to defend you a positive experience when it is labeled "toxic"? The problem is the good is being thrown out with the bath water in this case. Which IMO is so wrong and damaging to a boy trying understand his place and how to handle himself when confronted with this type of abuse. Is a violent reaction the first solution, hell no. But it should be in the list of possibilities when it is justified (which is part of the mentoring done by an adult male role model).

Swinging the pendulum from one extreme to the pother is not a solution.

a reply to: InTheLight

There's no such thing as common sense. It's an oxymoron. The world is crazy.

It's way more fun to talk about your lack of underwear.

Bra or do you burn 'em?

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Boadicea

I understand what you and the other women are saying.

Whew -- thank you!

How about if they had a commercial showing stupid, nagging women acting unreasonable? Would you rush to buy their products? Please don't try to tell me yes. No one wants to patronize a company that casts them in this light.

Your point is well taken, if not your perception of the commercial.

There was a time when it seemed like the cool thing to do in commercials was to show women bashing/besting men, and often husbands and wives specifically. I thought it was borderline sociopathic, and the selfishness and competitiveness portrayed was exactly the opposite of what my husband and I were trying to live and teach our kids by example about cooperation, teamwork, courtesy, consideration, respect, etc. So, yes, I made it a point not to buy those products.

But whereas you are perceiving the commercial of painting all men in a bad light, I am not seeing that. I never saw the Gillette commercial as painting all men in a bad light, much less thinking that the commercials I referred to were painting all women or all married couples in that bad light. Even if they were, I know better than to think it possible to paint any individuals in any group in the same light -- good or bad.

Don't you think most people know -- simply by virtue of their own experience -- that not all men are abusers or bullies?

Men are toxic but Thots are sponsor friendly.