#TheBestMenCanBe #Gillette

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

By the way, "toxic" by whose standards? Toxic is a relative matter. Peanuts can be terribly toxic in very small doses to someone who is allergic, but that same dose is nowhere near toxic to me. So maybe this idea of toxic is being defined by feminists who are allergic to masculinity?

are you serious? gosh, that is funny. i bet there are thousends of sitcoms or movies showing good people. i still love watching colombo. you fear feminists, right? yeah, its a deadly movement! they wanna kill us all!

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

...

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

...

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women. Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it. Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past, and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

Is it suppressing a boy's natural manhood to teach him not to bully others?

And there it is.....thanks for proving my point. You immediately go to accusing me of defending bullying.

That is the problem...that is NOT what I was saying at all. You merely interpreted it with the feminist goggles you have been trained to use all these years.

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position. The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one.

Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

I did not interpreting anything, I was asking you a question because of your previous comment and you turned it around to suit your position, as you usually do. All you had to do was clarify your comments and not make assumptions about me.

Admit it. Your question was based upon a predisposed concept, a form of conformation bias. Its akin to asking the age old loaded question, "how long have you beat your wife?".

If you read my post, and really listened to it, you would see that is NOT what I was saying. Being a boy does not mean bullying, but also does not mean being weak and feminine. There are aspect of being male that women just do not understand....and likely never will. Just as there are aspects of being female that men would never understand.

Case in point. Due to the presence of testosterone (a natural male hormone), boys fight between each other as a form of bonding and mutual respect. It can build lifelong friendships between men. However, all women see are that these boys are fighting and should never do that, ever. That is taking away an aspect of manhood ritual that is essential to the balanced growth into being a man. But, that needs to be guided and focused properly by a man that truly understands that aspect of growing from a boy to a man.

Since the radical feminists have taken over the women's movement, these positive adult male role models are few and far between. The mentors for boys have been systematically exterminated in favor of weak and feminized "male humans". They are not men, they do not deserve to be referred to as such either. This is causing more confused and frustrated boys reaching puberty with NOBODY there to help guide them though these mixed emotions as their chemistry changes. As wonderful and nurturing as many woman can be, it is simply NOT a good substitute for a man that has actually gone through it themselves.

That is the big lie.....WOMEN can do anything. NO. Just as men cannot do everything.

I've seen male school Principals and Vice-Principals always stop fights and violence, so are you saying they are weak and feminine for doing so?

Women can send their sons to karate school the same as a man can do, your arguments are invalid.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position.

Actually, it did. If you refuse to call out the bullying, then you are supporting it by omission. "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." "All that's needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." "Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor." It's a fairly well known and long standing concept.

But I'm quite happy to hear your explanation. What exactly in the video was portrayed as "bullying" which, in your opinion, is part of "natural manhood." What exactly is being denied to boys that they need to be a productive and responsible and honorable man?

The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one. Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

Ask yourself. I bet you can figure it out.

Here's a hint... the OP is about men standing up to bullying by other men... you inferred that doing so denies boys their "natural manhood." You gave no different or distinctive or distinguishing explanation or description. If you cannot differentiate, how can we?

You still do not understand my point do you???

I have openly said that bullying is not part of manhood, didn't I?

However, boys fighting IS part of that manhood experience. Whether you or other women like that or not. It is the cold hard truth.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

...

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

...

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women. Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it. Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past, and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

Is it suppressing a boy's natural manhood to teach him not to bully others?

And there it is.....thanks for proving my point. You immediately go to accusing me of defending bullying.

That is the problem...that is NOT what I was saying at all. You merely interpreted it with the feminist goggles you have been trained to use all these years.

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position. The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one.

Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

I did not interpreting anything, I was asking you a question because of your previous comment and you turned it around to suit your position, as you usually do. All you had to do was clarify your comments and not make assumptions about me.

Admit it. Your question was based upon a predisposed concept, a form of conformation bias. Its akin to asking the age old loaded question, "how long have you beat your wife?".

If you read my post, and really listened to it, you would see that is NOT what I was saying. Being a boy does not mean bullying, but also does not mean being weak and feminine. There are aspect of being male that women just do not understand....and likely never will. Just as there are aspects of being female that men would never understand.

Case in point. Due to the presence of testosterone (a natural male hormone), boys fight between each other as a form of bonding and mutual respect. It can build lifelong friendships between men. However, all women see are that these boys are fighting and should never do that, ever. That is taking away an aspect of manhood ritual that is essential to the balanced growth into being a man. But, that needs to be guided and focused properly by a man that truly understands that aspect of growing from a boy to a man.

Since the radical feminists have taken over the women's movement, these positive adult male role models are few and far between. The mentors for boys have been systematically exterminated in favor of weak and feminized "male humans". They are not men, they do not deserve to be referred to as such either. This is causing more confused and frustrated boys reaching puberty with NOBODY there to help guide them though these mixed emotions as their chemistry changes. As wonderful and nurturing as many woman can be, it is simply NOT a good substitute for a man that has actually gone through it themselves.

That is the big lie.....WOMEN can do anything. NO. Just as men cannot do everything.

I've seen male school Principals and Vice-Principals always stop fights and violence, so are you saying they are weak and feminine for doing so?

Women can send their sons to karate school the same as a man can do, your arguments are invalid.

Invalid because YOU fail to understand the male experience, as I stated you would not.

Just as I, as a man,. cannot understand a girl going though her first menses. I can try to be supportive, but I cannot truly understand because I have not been thought that experience first-hand. Trying to say it is equivalent is propagating a LIE, and frankly does harm to everyone involved.

But, see, that flies in the face of your dogma, and threatens your ingrained position which is based upon lies.


ETA:
As for the breaking up of these fights, it is all legal related. They are fearful that the school will be sued by parents, and they will lose their job and be unable to get a position in education ever again.

THAT is the reality of those actions.

a reply to: Necrobile

Exactly.

There are good men and there are good women. There are freaking awesome possum men and there are freaking awesome possum women. There are also crap men and there are crap women. I've said that. Always have been and always will be. "The crap will always be with us." Which means that we will always have to deal with it.

Gillette is trying to do exactly that. Gillette did not accuse all men of being craptastic. But men sure are taking it that way -- and quite personally.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position.

Actually, it did. If you refuse to call out the bullying, then you are supporting it by omission. "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." "All that's needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." "Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor." It's a fairly well known and long standing concept.

But I'm quite happy to hear your explanation. What exactly in the video was portrayed as "bullying" which, in your opinion, is part of "natural manhood." What exactly is being denied to boys that they need to be a productive and responsible and honorable man?

The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one. Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

Ask yourself. I bet you can figure it out.

Here's a hint... the OP is about men standing up to bullying by other men... you inferred that doing so denies boys their "natural manhood." You gave no different or distinctive or distinguishing explanation or description. If you cannot differentiate, how can we?

You still do not understand my point do you???

I have openly said that bullying is not part of manhood, didn't I?

However, boys fighting IS part of that manhood experience. Whether you or other women like that or not. It is the cold hard truth.

And the cold hard truth is that that type of behaviour is not acceptable and should be stopped - the same when girls fight, which they do too.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position.

Actually, it did. If you refuse to call out the bullying, then you are supporting it by omission. "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." "All that's needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." "Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor." It's a fairly well known and long standing concept.

But I'm quite happy to hear your explanation. What exactly in the video was portrayed as "bullying" which, in your opinion, is part of "natural manhood." What exactly is being denied to boys that they need to be a productive and responsible and honorable man?

The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one. Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

Ask yourself. I bet you can figure it out.

Here's a hint... the OP is about men standing up to bullying by other men... you inferred that doing so denies boys their "natural manhood." You gave no different or distinctive or distinguishing explanation or description. If you cannot differentiate, how can we?

You still do not understand my point do you???

I have openly said that bullying is not part of manhood, didn't I?

However, boys fighting IS part of that manhood experience. Whether you or other women like that or not. It is the cold hard truth.

And the cold hard truth is that that type of behaviour is not acceptable and should be stopped - the same when girls fight, which they do too.

You are wrong, plain and simple, and part of the problem.

As I stated, you do not understand what it means to grow up and be a man.

You can't, yet you try to make blanket statements of what is right and wrong about something you can never fully understand. Are you that arrogant to think you know better than someone that actually experienced these things?

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

...

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

...

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women. Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it. Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past, and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

Is it suppressing a boy's natural manhood to teach him not to bully others?

And there it is.....thanks for proving my point. You immediately go to accusing me of defending bullying.

That is the problem...that is NOT what I was saying at all. You merely interpreted it with the feminist goggles you have been trained to use all these years.

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position. The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one.

Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

I did not interpreting anything, I was asking you a question because of your previous comment and you turned it around to suit your position, as you usually do. All you had to do was clarify your comments and not make assumptions about me.

Admit it. Your question was based upon a predisposed concept, a form of conformation bias. Its akin to asking the age old loaded question, "how long have you beat your wife?".

If you read my post, and really listened to it, you would see that is NOT what I was saying. Being a boy does not mean bullying, but also does not mean being weak and feminine. There are aspect of being male that women just do not understand....and likely never will. Just as there are aspects of being female that men would never understand.

Case in point. Due to the presence of testosterone (a natural male hormone), boys fight between each other as a form of bonding and mutual respect. It can build lifelong friendships between men. However, all women see are that these boys are fighting and should never do that, ever. That is taking away an aspect of manhood ritual that is essential to the balanced growth into being a man. But, that needs to be guided and focused properly by a man that truly understands that aspect of growing from a boy to a man.

Since the radical feminists have taken over the women's movement, these positive adult male role models are few and far between. The mentors for boys have been systematically exterminated in favor of weak and feminized "male humans". They are not men, they do not deserve to be referred to as such either. This is causing more confused and frustrated boys reaching puberty with NOBODY there to help guide them though these mixed emotions as their chemistry changes. As wonderful and nurturing as many woman can be, it is simply NOT a good substitute for a man that has actually gone through it themselves.

That is the big lie.....WOMEN can do anything. NO. Just as men cannot do everything.

I've seen male school Principals and Vice-Principals always stop fights and violence, so are you saying they are weak and feminine for doing so?

Women can send their sons to karate school the same as a man can do, your arguments are invalid.

Invalid because YOU fail to understand the male experience, as I stated you would not.

Just as I, as a man,. cannot understand a girl going though her first menses. I can try to be supportive, but I cannot truly understand because I have not been thought that experience first-hand. Trying to say it is equivalent is propagating a LIE, and frankly does harm to everyone involved.

But, see, that flies in the face of your dogma, and threatens your ingrained position which is based upon lies.


ETA:
As for the breaking up of these fights, it is all legal related. They are fearful that the school will be sued by parents, and they will lose their job and be unable to get a position in education ever again.

THAT is the reality of those actions.

My husband and son tell me of the male experience which aids my understanding of what they had to face throughout their lives, so don't tell me what I know or don't know. Ask yourself why you feel the need to internalize a commercial ad that portrays boy on boy violence with adult men stepping in to stop the violence? Also ask yourself why you have to label me in a negative way to lessen my position on this issue?

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position.

Actually, it did. If you refuse to call out the bullying, then you are supporting it by omission. "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." "All that's needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." "Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor." It's a fairly well known and long standing concept.

But I'm quite happy to hear your explanation. What exactly in the video was portrayed as "bullying" which, in your opinion, is part of "natural manhood." What exactly is being denied to boys that they need to be a productive and responsible and honorable man?

The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one. Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

Ask yourself. I bet you can figure it out.

Here's a hint... the OP is about men standing up to bullying by other men... you inferred that doing so denies boys their "natural manhood." You gave no different or distinctive or distinguishing explanation or description. If you cannot differentiate, how can we?

You still do not understand my point do you???

I have openly said that bullying is not part of manhood, didn't I?

However, boys fighting IS part of that manhood experience. Whether you or other women like that or not. It is the cold hard truth.

And the cold hard truth is that that type of behaviour is not acceptable and should be stopped - the same when girls fight, which they do too.

You are wrong, plain and simple, and part of the problem.

As I stated, you do not understand what it means to grow up and be a man.

You can't, yet you try to make blanket statements of what is right and wrong about something you can never fully understand. Are you that arrogant to think you know better than someone that actually experienced these things?

Your experiences are solely you own and do not speak for all.

a reply to: InTheLight

My mistake. When I say children it is inclusive. My oldest is almost 30 years old, but she is still my child. My nephew at 14 has more hair on his face than his father who just turned 60.

Yes the message is geared towards young men, that is their target audience.

I really don't believe they are marketing to the senior audience, but this is just my opinion.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: InTheLight

My mistake. When I say children it is inclusive. My oldest is almost 30 years old, but she is still my child. My nephew at 14 has more hair on his face than his father who just turned 60.

Yes the message is geared towards young men, that is their target audience.

I really don't believe they are marketing to the senior audience, but this is just my opinion.

As a senior who would most likely be helping raise my grandchildren should I be blessed with them, which seems to be more and more the norm these days, I would not rule it out.

a reply to: InTheLight

She was the last one to reply?

Wait, no. That's not it.

It's because of my penis. My apologies.

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: InTheLight

She was the last one to reply?

Wait, no. That's not it.

It's because of my penis. My apologies.

You just proved why you replied to her and not him. Can't hide it.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Krakatoa

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position.

Actually, it did. If you refuse to call out the bullying, then you are supporting it by omission. "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." "All that's needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." "Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor." It's a fairly well known and long standing concept.

But I'm quite happy to hear your explanation. What exactly in the video was portrayed as "bullying" which, in your opinion, is part of "natural manhood." What exactly is being denied to boys that they need to be a productive and responsible and honorable man?

The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one. Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

Ask yourself. I bet you can figure it out.

Here's a hint... the OP is about men standing up to bullying by other men... you inferred that doing so denies boys their "natural manhood." You gave no different or distinctive or distinguishing explanation or description. If you cannot differentiate, how can we?

You still do not understand my point do you???

I have openly said that bullying is not part of manhood, didn't I?

However, boys fighting IS part of that manhood experience. Whether you or other women like that or not. It is the cold hard truth.

And the cold hard truth is that that type of behaviour is not acceptable and should be stopped - the same when girls fight, which they do too.

You are wrong, plain and simple, and part of the problem.

As I stated, you do not understand what it means to grow up and be a man.

You can't, yet you try to make blanket statements of what is right and wrong about something you can never fully understand. Are you that arrogant to think you know better than someone that actually experienced these things?

Your experiences are solely you own and do not speak for all.

And you discussions with the men in you life is NOT replacement for feeling these feelings and experiencing these things, EVER. If you think it is, then you are embracing a falsehood. Do you think I know every aspect of being a women because I grew up in a household with a mother and 3 sisters? Talking to them, seeing their trials an tribulations over the years?

NO, and I would not be so arrogant to assume that I know what it likes to grow from a girl to a woman.

Please open your eyes and be honest with yourself. You know NOTHING of what it truly means to be a boy growing into a man. And if the men in your life don't tell you this aspect it is because they are afraid to make waves. I am married, I understand that all too well.

I.E. You never sh*t where you eat.

a reply to: Boadicea

I understand what you and the other women are saying. All your arguments are very reasoned and well thought out. But they only make sense in relation to the debate in the larger society as a whole.

Imagine you are watching TV and see this ad. Who are you going to tell your argument to? The television set? You are confronted with two and only two choices. Buy Gillette blades or buy a competitors blade.

So whose blades do you want? The one from the company that just aired a show presenting you as bullying and sexually harassing women? I don't believe so.

How about if they had a commercial showing stupid, nagging women acting unreasonable? Would you rush to buy their products? Please don't try to tell me yes. No one wants to patronize a company that casts them in this light.

a reply to: JimNasium

This is when the male w/a micropenis will accuse P&G™ of "triggering" and then to bolster their argument will add "Snowflake" You know the EXACT same thing they accuse those who wave the "D" Flag...

LOL!!! Are you and my hubby talking behind my back??? He shares your sentiment!

Or maybe there just really and truly is a more mature and responsible response to the issues Gillette brought up that don't include a pity party. Perhaps this is where we separate the boys from the men so to speak.

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: Boadicea

Are you two married?

You're arguing straight past each other and not addressing a single f# thing the other one is saying.

It's like watching a class on deflection.

Huh??? I not only directly addressed his comments, I quoted and used his words.

Deflection indeed.

a reply to: Boadicea

Actually I replied to you and not Krakatoa because I'm sure you're much better looking, so if I'm going to get into a pissing contest the choice was obvious.

If you're into that sorta thing, you know.

originally posted by: NthOther
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

No, why not try to contribute in a positive way?