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DNA pioneer stripped of honours amid 'reckless' race remarks.

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posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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You can be critical of IQ tests but if you doubt the methodology, you are probably wrong. The psychological testing community is very serious about them. For one thing, IQ tests were among the first tests ever developed in the field and more research has gone into IQ testing than most other areas of psychology combined. There are many types of tests and the best ones all produce the same results.

You might think IQ is heavily influenced by malnutrition or eating lead paint chips. Even if it is, these tests don't speak to the cause. They just aim to give an accurate assessment of what we call IQ. The causes are determined after the results come in.



Here is a graph of the IQ of children according to race. Each group has been raised in a household with a certain level of education. This is an attempt to control variables. As you can see, as the education level of the parents rises, so does the IQ of their children. The racial component remains proportional. However, when you cut across categories, you can see the white child of a high school dropout scores about the same as a black child whose parents are college graduates. American blacks have an IQ that is on average 5 points higher than an African black. Each African country varies somewhat from the others.

What to make of this? Are the facts themselves racist?
edit on 14-1-2019 by toms54 because: spelling




posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 11:08 AM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

This is not insult to anyone.

Have you taken ethics courses? Have you worked in professional situations that have highly ambiguous and serious implications, where it takes a lot of philosophical and ethical understanding? Proscriptive lists of rules often don’t cover these novel and complex situations.

Examples include working in everything from politics to foreign policy to law.

No, many people of even middle intelligence can’t wade through all the multi variable ethical issues involved in these larger spheres. I’ve seen it first hand.

Where I would agree with you is in normative, inter personal situations that aren’t highly complex.


I can agree with this, but that is not what I'm talking abut. I'm not suggesting that someone with lower IQ would be able to be successful as a lawyer discussing ethics within the law, or discuss Kant's doctrine of transcendental idealism, or even the ground breaking philosophies of Plato even though he had boys that were sex slaves and he saw that as a norm...

I'm saying that IQ does not play into whether a person can have a successful working level of ethics within their life,...




edit on 14-1-2019 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: toms54




What to make of this? Are the facts themselves racist?


One thing to think about is correlation doesn't equal causation.. now repeat this over and over.

IQ is innate, so to suggest that the education level of the parents will innately increase IQ in their off spring is a far reach...

The IQ test is most likely full of confounding factors since the White or Asian kid could have some prior understanding or influences of the test before they take it, and that makes sense when we add in educated parents. American Indians would be much like Africans of having zero influences to the test(s) and so also score lower, BUT American Indians are basically an off shoot of Asians 15,000 years ago and so they should actually be higher than whites if there was zero confounding factors in the test.





edit on 14-1-2019 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

This is not insult to anyone.

Have you taken ethics courses? Have you worked in professional situations that have highly ambiguous and serious implications, where it takes a lot of philosophical and ethical understanding? Proscriptive lists of rules often don’t cover these novel and complex situations.

Examples include working in everything from politics to foreign policy to law.

No, many people of even middle intelligence can’t wade through all the multi variable ethical issues involved in these larger spheres. I’ve seen it first hand.

Where I would agree with you is in normative, inter personal situations that aren’t highly complex.


I can agree with this, but that is not what I'm talking abut. I'm not suggesting that someone with lower IQ would be able to be successful as a lawyer discussing ethics within the law, or discuss Kant's doctrine of transcendental idealism, or even the ground breaking philosophies of Plato even though he had boys that were sex slaves and he saw that as a norm...

I'm saying that IQ does not play into whether a person can have a successful working level of ethics within their life,...





But this is what I’m saying, in certain roles and fields you do need more to wade through it all. In higher level roles and especially in either macro areas of practice or complicated contexts, one can’t rely on basic rules, laws, etc. we were even taught this in my professional ethics courses.

Yes people with low iq absolutely can show a high level of integrity, respect, honesty, and so on. And certainly more so than an immoral high iq person.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

This is not insult to anyone.

Have you taken ethics courses? Have you worked in professional situations that have highly ambiguous and serious implications, where it takes a lot of philosophical and ethical understanding? Proscriptive lists of rules often don’t cover these novel and complex situations.

Examples include working in everything from politics to foreign policy to law.

No, many people of even middle intelligence can’t wade through all the multi variable ethical issues involved in these larger spheres. I’ve seen it first hand.

Where I would agree with you is in normative, inter personal situations that aren’t highly complex.


I can agree with this, but that is not what I'm talking abut. I'm not suggesting that someone with lower IQ would be able to be successful as a lawyer discussing ethics within the law, or discuss Kant's doctrine of transcendental idealism, or even the ground breaking philosophies of Plato even though he had boys that were sex slaves and he saw that as a norm...

I'm saying that IQ does not play into whether a person can have a successful working level of ethics within their life,...





But this is what I’m saying, in certain roles and fields you do need more to wade through it all. In higher level roles and especially in either macro areas of practice or complicated contexts, one can’t rely on basic rules, laws, etc. we were even taught this in my professional ethics courses.

Yes people with low iq absolutely can show a high level of integrity, respect, honesty, and so on. And certainly more so than an immoral high iq person.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 11:36 AM
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An estimated graph with no attached methodology. What’s the source, neo nazi daily? a reply to: toms54



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

Do you actually expect a reasoned response with that kind of attitude?



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: soundguy
An estimated graph with no attached methodology. What’s the source, neo nazi daily? a reply to: toms54



Bug off, Commie



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: ufoorbhunter

"You must have the knowledge to make some great electronics."

Not particularly too be honest, i learned far more regarding the job from my apprenticeship or in working in the field than i did at university or college.

They don't teach you to solder properly for a start, nor really broach the field of PCB construction, aside from the truth tables and boolean logic required in circuit design, more theory than practice is how i would put it.

I have the ability to repair and upgrade electronics mate, don't really create much, that's a real engineer there, i just fix computers and other assorted peripherals, im semi-retired these days all the same down to health issues.

The tutor did go out his way to help me immensely, all the same, quite a few of them did if truth be told.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: Unruhestifter
But does a 90 year old racist views wipe out all the good he has contributed? Should all his honors be wiped out because of this?

That's the way it works when you're accused of being a witch.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

That's true i suppose.

All through the truth is, if he had proposed the likes of DNA a few hundred years ago, they would have burned him at the stake, quite literally, and yet been quite happy if, not in agreement, with his seeming racist mentality.

Swings and roundabouts this world. LoL




edit on 14-1-2019 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 03:33 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
Swings and roundabouts this world. LoL

We advance technologically, but deep in that DNA that Watson helped discover, we're not much more than filthy, opportunistic apes, regardless of race.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

Correlation does not equal causation, no.

However, given what was discussed several pages earlier about what it means to have a higher IQ -- namely, that higher IQ individuals learn quicker and easier making the act of learning more pleasurable to them than it is to their peers for the most part and that IQ tends to some degree to be hereditary, it would stand to reason that college grads would tend to have children with higher IQs on average. Also given that you tend to marry your peers in both college and career attainment (recall that thread on how women want men who can provide?), smarter, more educated people are likely meeting and marrying smarter and more educated people. It would be a mostly self-reinforcing loop.

This happens in Asian countries and in the Jewish culture too because a high value is placed on education. It used to be the same in white cultures although we're slipping on that. You have your pick of mates if you are highly educated and children are pressured to attain and achieve.

TLDR - The best and brightest are often marrying and breeding with the best and brightest in certain cultures.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 04:23 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

The chart was assembled using the online NAEP Data Explorer

NAEP is National Assessment of Educational Progress, a government website for educational data nationwide Link

The actual chart was copied from this page It was in an article titled: IQ by Race and Parental Educational Attainment
Audacious Epigone • February 22, 2015 • 300 Words • 13 Comments

The article lists the variables used.

I am unable to give the methodology because their data is compiled from studies and statistics for all schools throughout the US.

You might find the tests lacking but it is nevertheless the data used by the educational authorities in the United States.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 04:33 PM
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Intelligence is such a vague concept, even to the people who design the tests. The tests have been run over and over and the results are generally the same with the various "races" each holding their respective positions. But are they really measuring "intelligence?" Hard to say. And besides, does intelligence mean being "successful?" Depends on how you define success. Is it the ability to live and grow within a society and successfully reproduce? Is it to make a lot of money and then die with no offspring at all? Who knows?

All I know is that everybody in history is both a hero and a villain, depending who you ask.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

It definitely predicts success in school. Its also been shown to correlate somewhat with lifetime earnings but not as strongly as with education. I guess success depends upon your personal goals.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: toms54

I am unable to give the methodology because their data is compiled from studies and statistics for all schools throughout the US.

You might find the tests lacking but it is nevertheless the data used by the educational authorities in the United States.


It would be nice to know the methodology. I keep thinking about the test and I'm not sure how to accurately measure lets say a genius that lives in a village and that is where all his skills and knowledge come from.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

If you believe the Mensa tests are valid, those geniuses come from all walks of life including many tradespeople. Not just academics. Their tests are more visual and culture neutral than the school tests which include more word problems. The Mensa tests have a lot of pattern recognition like number series.



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Blue Shift

It definitely predicts success in school. Its also been shown to correlate somewhat with lifetime earnings but not as strongly as with education. I guess success depends upon your personal goals.

Well, with DNA there is only one goal, but billions of ways of accomplishing it. That goal is to successfully reproduce. Your DNA doesn't care how many college degrees you have or how much money you make.



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: Unruhestifter

This is evidence that we really need to re-institute freedom of speech. That freedom is totally gone now, IMHO. Sad.

The content of speech is less relevant than the need for a freedom to protect it, no matter the content, good or bad.




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