Instead of Working To End Our Govt Shutdown - Thirty Democrats Fly to Puerto Rico to Relax.

a reply to: TheRedneck

What is there to negotiate? Last year they offered 25 billion for border security in exchange for DACA protection and the GOP said no.

Now, Trump wants money for his wall or no deal. The Dems floated a clean CR to reopen the government and McConnel said it was a non-starter and refused to bring it to a vote. A vote that passed a few weeks ago 100 to zero. A number so large it could easily override a presidential veto.

But Trump wants to negotiate? If I say I want to sleep with another man's wife and he says "no way!," so I ask for oral sex instead, are we negotiating?

There isn't going to be any money for the wall negotiated through a government shutdown. The sooner Trump and the GOP get that, the sooner we can open the government. It's not calculus.

a reply to: soundguy

It’s so entertaining watching rwnj’s lurching back and forth when it comes to personal rights, and states rights.

No one's lurching back and forth. I disagree strongly with taking property for anything other than badly needed government programs that benefit the entire country (like giving it to a developer for a commercial enterprise), but accept it otherwise. That position has not changed. Some of us think in deeper terms than "this good - that bad."

Btw, is that prototype for the wall the one they sawed through like it was butter?

Similar. After that failure (which was done using power tools... don't remember power outlets along the deserted sections of the border myself), the designers added in fill materials which will make sawing through even more difficult.

Hey, do you have locations for those power outlets? I swear, I can't find anything on line about them...

TheRedneck

a reply to: carewemust

We just need to get rid of @500 more and keep the government shut down.

Might even make America great again if we did that.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

What is there to negotiate? Last year they offered 25 billion for border security in exchange for DACA protection and the GOP said no.

As I understand it, that $25 billion was earmarked specifically so it could not be used for a wall. A wall is literally the key that makes effective border security possible.

The Dems floated a clean CR to reopen the government and McConnel said it was a non-starter and refused to bring it to a vote.

Good for McConnell!

Anything else would have the same effect it had with Reagan in the 1980s: Democrats get everything for a future promise which is quickly forgotten. Oh, yes, you see, I remember that. No more. We do it all, or we do nothing.

A promise from Congress has much in common with a single snowflake in the solar corona: they last about as long.

But Trump wants to negotiate? If I say I want to sleep with another man's wife and he says "no way!," so I ask for oral sex instead, are we negotiating?

If the other man (or his wife) were to receive something they wanted, yes, technically you would be negotiating. That would be a counteroffer. Of course, my counter to your counter would be to agree not to remove certain essential body parts if you would agree to never let me see your face again, but that would be because there is nothing you could offer me in that position that I wanted.

I'm not real sure how you are tying such a request to the present situation on the wall, but then again I have this hard time seeing building a wall in the same vein as sexual perversion...

There isn't going to be any money for the wall negotiated through a government shutdown. The sooner Trump and the GOP get that, the sooner we can open the government.

I agree. Trump should just give up trying to negotiate and have the military build the wall. Then come the 2020 race, he can point out how Pelosi and the Democrats allowed all those private jobs to disappear over ridiculous claims that never accomplished anything.

I won't damn Trump for trying to help folks get work, though.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust
We just need to get rid of @500 more and keep the government shut down.
Might even make America great again if we did that.

You are in favor of the U.S. President making all the decisions...whomever he/she might be?

they love Trump, they get to go on vacation when he shuts the government down, they love it

a reply to: carewemust

LOL.....seems like too many of the POTUS decisions end up shot down at the 9th Circuit.....is that right??

a reply to: TheRedneck

A prototype comes before a design?

Prototypes come before a final decision on a design is made.

That's news to me and I work with design and prototyping. For the last 40+ years I apparently have been doing things backwards, designing a prototype before I built it.

If you say so.

What you are seeing is a render of a design. Prototypes are actual physical structures.

I saw several structures, all of which were breached.

So your complaint is that Trump has left room to negotiate?

Has Trump submitted a budget of how he intends to spend this $5.6 billion dollars? He hasn't even totally spent the $1.6 that Congress gave him last year, for research and development.

The US-Mexico border, on the US side. That border is exactly defined... it's not just a geographic area.

This is a statement that displays your true ignorance. I..Just...Can't...Even!

Ports of Entry.

So nearsighted. So dumb! So inhumane. This isn't "Noah's Ark".

We need restrooms now? It's not a mall. I'm sure they'll use Porta-Potties during construction.

Storage, garages, hangers, power stations, lookout stations, housing for border patrol, fire and other emergency services, etc.

No real need... most of that border is desert. You just drive to it.

LOL. More of your geographic smarts on display! "They just turn left! They usually turn "left". LOL

I think the desert snakes can still get between the slats.

What a brilliant display of your environmental smarts! Just like President "Good Brain"!

The landowner will get a notice that their property is being seized for purposes of Eminent Domain, with an accompanying check for the value of the land.

Your plan is just as impulsive, ignorant and hairbrained and Trump's. Actually, we're no where near there yet, as the wall/fence design isn't firm, where this structure will go isn't confirmed, It's going to take a whole lot more that $6 billion dollars to actually build, and to maintain, Trump's wall and Congress hasn't okayed any new land grabs.

Trump's wall is only an idea right now. Congress offered him $1.6 billion to continue research and design, and over $20 billion for the construction and reinforcement and the border fence and added technology, per the Secure Fence Act.

a reply to: gortex

How is setting on a beach and meeting corporate lobbyists useful?

originally posted by: gortex

originally posted by: BoscoMoney
So rather than do something useful you'd rather everybody take a vacation while holding the country ransom?

Seems to me that they're doing something constructive , what would you suggest they do given the outcome of their last meeting ?
Of the 30 members who took the trip how many are considered part of the actual leadership of the Democrats ?

I read more than the first two paragraphs of the article.

This is a planned PAC meeting; it's for a weekend (Congress isn't in session) and they were also there to look at the recovery effort (remember Trump pulled out FEMA and has been talking about cutting funds to Puerto Rico) AND they paid for the Hamilton tickets themselves -- it's a fundraiser that goes directly to the people of Puerto Rico (arts charity.)

So things take on a different tone when you get the full scoop.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust
We just need to get rid of @500 more and keep the government shut down.
Might even make America great again if we did that.

You are in favor of the U.S. President making all the decisions...whomever he/she might be?

No.

Of course not.

But our government is so hopelessly corrupt, I can dream.

I guess being a self proclaimed “redneck” you have never heard of battery powered tools. They are all the rage these days. You should look them up. My entire shop is almost all battery operated, from my compressor to my table saw. And since you seem kinda dim on the matter, here is another one, you don’t need electricity for oxy acetylene either. a reply to: TheRedneck

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Prototypes come before a final decision on a design is made.

Well, forgive my ignorance! The next time I build a prototype i will try to remember to not design anything until it is built.

Just not sure how that would work...

I saw several structures, all of which were breached.

You see a breach in what I posted? OMG, I'M BLIND!

Oh, maybe you're talking about the stories about the successful breaches of the prototypes... if so, yeah, they were breached using industrial power tools. Where does one plug in those power tools at the border? Wayfarer seems to know where the outlets in the desert are, but he hasn't responded to me yet.

Has Trump submitted a budget of how he intends to spend this $5.6 billion dollars? He hasn't even totally spent the $1.6 that Congress gave him last year, for research and development.

I really don't know that for sure. I do know this: if I ask the bank for, say, $50,000 to build a house, I am not going to break that down to how much nails cost. I would have already figured an allotment for nails in the amount requested, however.

As to the $1.6 billion, has it ever occurred to you that he didn't need all of that for the R&D? Once a design (or multiple designs, as in this case) is decided on, why keep spending money?

This is a statement that displays your true ignorance. I..Just...Can't...Even!

What? Do you think the US-Mexico border is approximate?

So nearsighted. So dumb! So inhumane. This isn't "Noah's Ark".

There are 48 border crossings with Mexico, and 330 Ports of Entry (crossings can have multiple Ports of Entry). How many would you consider 'humane'?

Storage, garages, hangers, power stations, lookout stations, housing for border patrol, fire and other emergency services, etc.

What does any of that have to do with the wall? That is infrastructure already in place.

LOL. More of your geographic smarts on display! "They just turn left! They usually turn "left". LOL

Brownsville TX is not desert, only slightly arid. But Laredo is semi-arid desert... and that continues until you get into California. There are exceptions, like the Big Bend area (where there will likely never be a wall because the natural geography makes crossing on foot extremely difficult), but they are small and few in number.

I have seen the border... stood on it, looking into Mexico. Have you?

What a brilliant display of your environmental smarts!

Pray tell then, what animals are we talking about that inhabit these semi-arid areas?

Your plan is...

That's not my plan. That's just how it works. Legally, the landowner must have reasonable time to vacate, and they must get notification and payment.

the wall/fence design isn't firm

It is as firm as it can be without finishing negotiations.

where this structure will go isn't confirmed

Right, like we can just put it in Dallas, or maybe Bismark?

It's going along the edge of the US-Mexico border!

It's going to take a whole lot more that $6 billion dollars to actually build

Well, duh... this first section will cost almost $6 billion.

and to maintain

Maintenance costs for a wall are minimal compared to construction costs. A wall is not a complex mechanism.

Congress hasn't okayed any new land grabs.

Congress approves the funds, not the use of Eminent Domain.

You really should at least try to do some research on a subject before offering details.

TheRedneck

Oh come off it. Trump said that there wasn't going to be a shutdown, then that there might be, then that there wasn't and then (finally) that there was. Then he said that the Government workforce was supporting him, before saying that most of of them were Democrats (so screw 'em) and now he's been saying that they are all behind him again. He also said that he was going to declare a state of emergency, then that he wasn't, then that he was and now (I think - does anyone know what the latest is?) that he isn't.
Given his erratic veering about from pillar to post, why the hell should anyone believe a word he says?

a reply to: soundguy

I guess being a self proclaimed “redneck” you have never heard of battery powered tools. They are all the rage these days.

Well, duh, nevah heered of nuna that thar fancy stuff like tha-ut!

Son, I might be a redneck, but I'm also an electrical engineer. As such, I am well aware of the toys you are talking of. I am also aware (as you are not, apparently) that battery operated tools of the size required to cut through steel tube (which is what we are discussing) of that size are not the type an individual can typically afford. Even with the proper size cutting tools, which would require transportation by vehicle, it would take an appreciable amount of time to make the cut. The point of the wall is not to be completely impenetrable... no wall is. The purpose is to slow down anyone crossing to allow CBP time to intercept them.

here is another one, you don’t need electricity for oxy acetylene either.

No, but you still need time.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Not to mention having to transport the gases necessary to run that torch...

...and a sufficient quantity to do the job, depending upon the steel used, will be quite...hmm...bulky. I'm sure the typical group of illegals will carry that instead of, oh I don't know, food and water--or their children, or all three... Just guessing, of course.

i mean a wall is one of the major issues which his whole campaign was run on so the way i look at this is that it's admirable to fight to the end to get his way, the way that the American voters asked by electing him into office.

it would be more shameful if he gave up, negotiated and discarded the will of the people to look good as a politician, to kiss everyone's ass like every other weak politician that bends at the slight hint of upset.

a reply to: namehere

Trump ran on the premise that Mexico would pay for the wall, not tax payers, and certainly not disaster victims!

Repeal and replace the ACA was also a huge issue that Trump ran on, yet we don't see Trump declaring a national emergency to assure American's receive affordable health care.



Putin hated Reagan more than he hated Obama and the Clintons. Trump's wall is Putin's revenge on Reagan's American.
(And, Trump is a Russian agent)

If the story were reported in its truth it would be :


In a show of solidarity and concern for the American people being affected by the shutdown.....

Democrats use tax payer dollars to fly to Puerto Rico, for fun, sun, relaxation.... And to meet with lobbyists so they can line their pockets on tge tax payer dime....

a reply to: Byrd

This is a planned PAC meeting; it's for a weekend (Congress isn't in session) and they were also there to look at the recovery effort (remember Trump pulled out FEMA and has been talking about cutting funds to Puerto Rico) AND they paid for the Hamilton tickets themselves -- it's a fundraiser that goes directly to the people of Puerto Rico (arts charity.)

No it doesnt , it goes to the gov, the same gov that left tarmacs full of water and food that was suppose to go and aid them ...

The same gov that had its goons beat people, and take the best stuff for the politicians and their families......and then Trump caught flack for saying he wasnt going to send anymore aid if they werent going to give it to the people......

None of that goes to the people.....