Bypassing Travis Walton's abduction saga to assess the reality of that 'Fire In The Sky'

Nice 'alternate' take on the Travis Walton case CB.

This is like listening to your favourite band rehearse a song without the lead vocalist. It may clarify some of what was going on in the background. But ultimately you still have to refer to the original track to give the whole thing some context and understand what it was all about.

My problem with this case is that almost everything is anecdotal. Walton was gone 5 days but his system showed no build up of ketones despite him claiming he was not given food or water during his experience. He also chose to call his sisters from a telephone booth on his reappearance not the emergency services.

I will have a listen to the interviews Kandinsky has added to thread before commenting further.

originally posted by: mirageman

My problem with this case is that almost everything is anecdotal. Walton was gone 5 days but his system showed no build up of ketones despite him claiming he was not given food or water during his experience. He also chose to call his sisters from a telephone booth on his reappearance not the emergency services.
.

I’ve read some of your threads on this, MM. I’ve seen the holes you’ve pointed out. I do have some questions for you. Forgive me if they have been answered already.

Travis claims he was only conscious for 15-20 minutes — from the time of getting zapped to the time he awoke. So from his own testimony, he was essentially comatose for the better part of 5 days.

1. Is it possible he had some type of IV to feed him nutrients? Hence, the lack of ketones.

2. Is it possible that wherever Travis went, there was only several hours lapsed? Yet, here in our plane of existence, over 5 days lapsed? After all, Huge time disparities are a major theme of countless high weirdness cases.

3. Most importantly, the supposed reason for the hoax: Did they get the desired extension on the logging contract? This is apparently the strongest argument for them concocting this hoax in the first place.

a reply to: KKLOCO

I don't claim to know this one inside out.....But what do we really have as evidence other than Travis going missing?

Travis claims he was only conscious for 15-20 minutes — from the time of getting zapped to the time he awoke. So from his own testimony, he was essentially comatose for the better part of 5 days.

1. Is it possible he had some type of IV to feed him nutrients? Hence, the lack of ketones.

If this was a supposed alien abduction why would they keep nutrients and medical equipment designed for human beings aboard their spacecraft? How come, as ever, the conditions aboard were suitable atmosphere, gravity and temperature all perfect for a human being. Why did they keep him aboard for 5 days?

If it wasn't aliens, which we have no proof exist nor why they would be visiting a remote forest in November 1975, then what are the most likely alternatives?

2. Is it possible that wherever Travis went, there was only several hours lapsed? Yet, here in our plane of existence, over 5 days lapsed? After all, Huge time disparities are a major theme of countless high weirdness cases.

The problem is that there is no other proof of that possibility that we know of. Also allegedly Walton had lost weight and showed a beard growth consistent with the time he was missing (5 days). Which knocks that idea on the head anyway.

3. Most importantly, the supposed reason for the hoax: Did they get the desired extension on the logging contract? This is apparently the strongest argument for them concocting this hoax in the first place.

Not necessarily. People hoax things for all sorts of reasons including doing it for fun and getting one over. Don't forget these guys got a reward from the National Enquirer. I think if resources had been unlimited that this case would have been resolved before now. But...

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: KKLOCO

I don't claim to know this one inside out.....But what do we really have as evidence other than Travis going missing?

Travis claims he was only conscious for 15-20 minutes — from the time of getting zapped to the time he awoke. So from his own testimony, he was essentially comatose for the better part of 5 days.

1. Is it possible he had some type of IV to feed him nutrients? Hence, the lack of ketones.

If this was a supposed alien abduction why would they keep nutrients and medical equipment designed for human beings aboard their spacecraft? How come, as ever, the conditions aboard were suitable atmosphere, gravity and temperature all perfect for a human being. Why did they keep him aboard for 5 days?

If it wasn't aliens, which we have no proof exist nor why they would be visiting a remote forest in November 1975, then what are the most likely alternatives?

2. Is it possible that wherever Travis went, there was only several hours lapsed? Yet, here in our plane of existence, over 5 days lapsed? After all, Huge time disparities are a major theme of countless high weirdness cases.

The problem is that there is no other proof of that possibility that we know of. Also allegedly Walton had lost weight and showed a beard growth consistent with the time he was missing (5 days). Which knocks that idea on the head anyway.

3. Most importantly, the supposed reason for the hoax: Did they get the desired extension on the logging contract? This is apparently the strongest argument for them concocting this hoax in the first place.

Not necessarily. People hoax things for all sorts of reasons including doing it for fun and getting one over. Don't forget these guys got a reward from the National Enquirer. I think if resources had been unlimited that this case would have been resolved before now. But...

According to a few abduction researchers the "alleged" non-human craft that abduct humans are totally designed and equipped for the single purpose of human abduction, so if true, then it is not a mystery why they would have human related equipment and material onboard those crafts. This information comes from hundreds if not thousands of cases of abduction reports, where some is from hypnotic regression, and some where the victims remember everything without hypnosis.

Obviously hard to believe any of it unless you yourself are an abductee victim and can remember all the same stuff.

Hopefully this answers at least one of your queries.

i met travis when he gave his little speach out here in oregon about 5 years ago. Seems like a nice genuine person. I bought his book, i read it. He signed it for me and it was shipped from his PO BOX which is from Snowflake Arizona. I totally belive him, 100 percent.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I've gotta say this is the best Walton article I've read.

I didn't know about Klass' involvement, To think he offered ten large to a guy leads me to a few speculations. Firstly the debunker couldn't call bunk and payed the man to save face or reputation, or if I may put tin foil hat on, he could have been funded by an alphabet agency to help cover up their secret projects-who knows.

All i know was the something happened.

One of the strangest accounts of Walton's abduction is this one...

To date, the UFO literature considers Travis Walton’s woodcutter to be the most famous and best-documented fourth type of meeting....

According to Travis Walton on November 5, 1975, this happened to him, and the strangers were taken away by his fellow eyes...

Travis Walton in 1975 as a woodcutter

The story begins on November 5, 1975. At that time, 22-year-old Travis Walton, his best friend, Mike Rogers, works as a lumberjack.

Shortly before, Rogers managed to sign up for a nine-year contract with the United States Forestry Service (Unites States Forest Service), so Walton had a date with Mike’s sister Dan, who later wanted to marry.

Other members of the logging team are Ken Peterson, John Goulette, Steve Pierce, Allen Dallis and Dwayne Smith. They all lived in Snowflake, Arizona.

Their task was to thoroughly throw the undergrowth and the bushes in an area of ​​about five square kilometers...

That evening, they did a little over eighteen hours. They put their tools in Rogers’ vans and went home...
According to them, shortly afterwards, they were looking at the high gloss, which was filtered from the hill before them...

As they arrived, they saw a large, silver disc hovering over a clearing. They said they could have been about 2.5 meters high and 6 meters in diameter.

Rogers slowed down when Travis Walton jumped out of the car and started rushing to the puck...Walton was frightened to go back to his companions, but the floating disco emitted a bluish-green radius at that moment, which had found Travis at his chest.

A few moments later, like a rag doll, she waved her body six meters back in the light that remained motionless on the ground. Rogers later said he was convinced that his friend had died, so he stepped into the gas...


Travis Walton was trapped in the second compartment in the second compartment. She had the same dress as she had disappeared, which was inadequate in the minus seven degrees cold. At a glance, he looked thinner and covered his face for several days...

See : alien-ufo-sightings.com...

a reply to: mirageman

But what do we really have as evidence other than Travis going missing?

6 witnesses who stick by the story 40 years later not enough for you?.

originally posted by: Spacespider
a reply to: Baddogma

Thanks.. watching it now, sounds to me they should remake the whole movie.
I would love to see it the way he experienced it

I agree the whole movie was turned into a horror/nightmare when considering his abduction was different, the movie just showed the greys. The movie never did any justice.

a reply to: AtlasHawk

When interviewed by Larry King at the time of release in 1993, Travis awkwardly defended the dramatic embellishments of the actual abduction, believing that the focus on characters and emotions elsewhere was the crux of the movie. He wasn't helped by co-interviewee Philip Klass bellowing about Walton's financial gain from the production.

It could have been far worse when one considers what was done to 'Communion' four years earlier - Whitley Strieber angrily disowned it but, hey, any movie boasting Chris Walken dancing with aliens must be worth a look-in!

a reply to: Soloprotocol

6 witnesses who stick by the story 40 years later not enough for you?.

Sure I don't doubt that they believe they saw a UFO [an unidentified flying object is all you can say]. That's the same conclusion that the polygraph expert came to.



But then you revert to relying on Walton's story as to what happened thereafter.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I'm sure that another Travis movie would be seen very favourably by Travis Walton.

Did you listen to the NUFORC recordings Kandinsky linked CB?

I haven't caught up with them all but I do wonder about one of them myself.

a reply to: mirageman

Funnily enough, I'm listening to them as I type - had a hectic last two days (my wife went into hospital) so I'm catching up with the thread.

A lot to listen to, but fascinating! A common denominator among the earlier calls are awkward remarks about Walton's life-long wish to communicate with aliens (despite Walton's professed lack of a "keen" interest) and his jolly hand signals to the UFO before being unceremoniously 'zapped'.

Interesting points about the up-and-down relationship with Dr Spalding who suspected fraud due to cancelled tests; plus the stories of three deerhunters witnessing another UFO a few days later, one taking a shot at it; also Walton recalling seeing three crafts 'stored' inside the UFO - which sounds problematic considering the 8ft high/20ft diameter estimated by the loggers.

Again, whatever the controversy surrounding Walton's subsequent personal plight, I still can't doubt that the crew saw SOMETHING in the sky that evening. But what? It's intriguing to speculate, especially considering the additional sighting by deer hunters that was well-known locally at the time but oddly hushed-up despite being anomalous enough to be fired at!


PS: Any lighthouses in the area? (JOKE)

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: IMSAM

Ps can the owners of the site bring travis for an AmA?

He's got an ATS account and posted about the incident in a number of posts in 2010. He made some good points and was certainly a ballsy guy.

Can you post a direct link to the ATS interview with him, I believe it was #28?

a reply to: InTheLight

Here's a link: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Most of Walton's actual ATS posts focused on that 'Moment Of Truth' nonsense - which he admits was a stupid thing to ever get involved in, but the $100,000 prize was too big a carrot.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
a reply to: InTheLight

Here's a link: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Most of Walton's actual ATS posts focused on that 'Moment Of Truth' nonsense - which he admits was a stupid thing to ever get involved in, but the $100,000 prize was too big a carrot.

Thanks, but the word 'here' is not linked to anything.

a reply to: InTheLight

How odd. The ATS link on the right is missing from your screen?

In any case, I just checked and the linked interview audio within that post seems dead now (mind you, it was 9 years ago), and I was looking forward to listening myself!

Shame. I wonder if other ATSers have separate sources for it.

originally posted by: mirageman

Sure I don't doubt that they believe they saw a UFO [an unidentified flying object is all you can say]. That's the same conclusion that the polygraph expert came to.

And, it seems, a conclusion that Philip J Klass himself came to. I'm surprised he was flexible enough to accept that much, but, of course, Klass would have doubted whether they really did see a beam zap Walton.

I believe they all saw a "UFO", but did they see a beam? Could they have concocted that aspect with Walton himself and quickly contrived an abduction story despite the reality of an unexplained UFO sighting beforehand? Did it cause their imagination to go into overdrive in concocting a solution to the breached contract?

It's possible, but the resilience of the other six loggers in sticking to their story for so long, and going through so many personal traumas since 1975, makes that seem unlikely. Unless only Rogers and Walton set it up (including the zapping) with the others oblivious to the scam. If so, HOW? Pierce in his 1978 chat with Klass seemed ferociously supportive of a hoax, but couldn't even begin to think of the 'How?'.

And Walton himself always comes across as so damned truthful in every TV/radio/convention slot - a remarkable feat if he is acting.

So many questions, so many possibilities, but yes, there seems no doubt they saw a bright, white Unidentified Floating Object that night. But what, if anything, was falsely added to that aspect? And what about those three deer hunters who allegedly shot at a UFO in the same area a few days later?

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
a reply to: InTheLight

How odd. The ATS link on the right is missing from your screen?

In any case, I just checked and the linked interview audio within that post seems dead now (mind you, it was 9 years ago), and I was looking forward to listening myself!

Shame. I wonder if other ATSers have separate sources for it.

Well the word 'here' was not bolded in blue if that is what you mean. Are you saying ATS archives would not keep these special interviews?

originally posted by: InTheLight

Are you saying ATS archives would not keep these special interviews?

I'm as in the dark as you are, and still feel relatively 'new' to ATS, so I have no idea if the audio or a transcript of it is still accessible.

I'm sure someone will come to our rescue.