Mexican Border Wall or Fence / Mainsteam Media on Spin Cycle

a reply to: Waterglass

Every country has a border. If they didn't, they'd cover the entire globe.

The issue is, if the borders are closed, open or controlled.

The US Southern border is controlled, just like the India/Pakistan border. I.e: There are very few controlled borders in the world.

The majority of other borders are open, with the exception of a few closed borders.

Open border From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Build that moat"!

LOL

a reply to: madenusa
there is more than enough money for the wall and unlimited wars, because people just cant get enough of conveniently paying for transactions with electronic debits like tap pay, swipe, or click. The defense budget is simply to launder the trillions of dollars that are generated every year from the micro fees attached to every single electronic debit on Earth, including the transfers between banks.

Taxes, they barely cover the interest. The real budget comes from the EFT fees and illegal drugs. So, as I have said dozens of times and wil repeat again, so long as our society keeps on eating up the dope and paying for things electronically, we can have our unlimited infinite warfare, and hopefully a wall as well.

Go on now, pay for something with a card. Our true rulers need their coffers on permanent "make money out of thin air" mode, that requires you to pay for something electronically. Or go consume a coca or opium drug product, that also helps the fund remain a bottomless pit of money generation.

Anybody ever wonder why it is, per usual, France, Germany and Britain who remain committed to the Syria operation?? The same countries of origin of the banking families who rule the Western World's finance system.

its like, as long as Trump soap opera plays on TV, we can all ignore WW3 and pretend we all forgot about the financial elites royal bloodlines that actually rule the world that we all theorized for years were conspiring to rule the world.

Anyways, give us the wall and we can say we are putting a middle finger to the order which wants us to be open borders!

a reply to: worldstarcountryChina is working on a system where one can directly buy and sell oil in Yuan.
Without demand for the US dollar and treasuries, interest rates will go up, debt will become expensive, and interest payments on existing debt will skyrocket.Worse, Putin is working with the Chinese

Everything you said is true...But lets just fight over this wall for now.
The next President it will be back to Gun control debate.
Sadly most of the people are easily swayed by propaganda, and programmed to accept wild stories without demanding proof or evidence.....they have to build roads before they can finish this wall.

a reply to: chr0naut

The US Southern border is controlled

No, it is not. The US southern border is controlled at ports of entry. Everywhere else it is uncontrolled (i.e. open for all practical purposes).

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Nickn3
..... One of these highly intelligent people said, “Why does he want a wall, only seven people crossed the border illegally last week?”
This is the kind of disinformation that is getting around. Many on both sides are seeking the truth. It’s 2019 and the truth no longer exists, I would like to see facts.

J----Chr--- are u kidding me?? I live in Texas. It is well over 1000 per DAY and this has been going on for decades! Many are caught, but some always seem to slip through. For all you cozy folks who live snug in Central US and dont think there is a problem..check out the show Border Wars for some of the tamer action. Or, come down here and spend a few nights in McAllen or El Paso for some real excitement. Geesh

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

The US Southern border is controlled

No, it is not. The US southern border is controlled at ports of entry. Everywhere else it is uncontrolled (i.e. open for all practical purposes).

TheRedneck

What, there are no border patrols?

a reply to: Liquesence

A lot of people want it. Not just Trump. And what is so bad about border security?

originally posted by: Starhooker
a reply to: Liquesence

what is so bad about border security?

Nothing.

I refer you to this post.

a reply to: chr0naut

What, there are no border patrols?

Not nearly enough to patrol an open border.

It takes maybe 30 seconds to run across unimpeded by any obstacle... and border patrols come by at most every few minutes. It's not hard to time that... we used to do it all the time playing "Frogger."

TheRedneck

a reply to: Liquesence

A physical barrier is a highly effective form of security, no? Most homes and businesses have a wall or fence to keep out the riff raff. Does your yard have a fence?

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

What, there are no border patrols?

Not nearly enough to patrol an open border.

It takes maybe 30 seconds to run across unimpeded by any obstacle... and border patrols come by at most every few minutes. It's not hard to time that... we used to do it all the time playing "Frogger."

TheRedneck

Where there is no wall or patrols, is desert. Running across 150 miles of Arizona desert, even at the unsustainable rate of 20km/h, takes seven and a half hours.

Time enough to identify them on radar and send a motorized patrol (unless you are willing to admit that the Aerostat Radar system is useless for ground based intercepts or that the patrolling officers are lazy and don't respond to the radar contacts).

a reply to: chr0naut

Where there is no wall or patrols, is desert. Running across 150 miles of Arizona desert, even at the unsustainable rate of 20km/h, takes seven and a half hours.

Actually, it is semi-arid. A completely arid desert is around Arizona... I believe New Mexico and Texas are semi-arid.

In any case, we're talking about an appreciable amount of the border remaining uncontrolled.

Time enough to identify them on radar and send a motorized patrol (unless you are willing to admit that the Aerostat Radar system is useless for ground based intercepts or that the patrolling officers are lazy and don't respond to the radar contacts).

Radar uses reflectivity to RF radiation. Humans are not visible on radar. There is also no radar at most of these locations because there is no infrastructure to handle them. The wall can be electrified to provide power to radar units (for light aircraft flying over) and ground sensors to detect tunneling activity.

TheRedneck

Nah, it’s just the basket of deplorables demonstrating what mindless robots they are. It’s not like they didn’t have the prior two years or 200 for that matter, to make this stand. Not to worry though, as soon as this dies down trump will lead them by nose to the next “big” thing that they didn’t care about the day before. Predictable as the sunrise.


a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

Where there is no wall or patrols, is desert. Running across 150 miles of Arizona desert, even at the unsustainable rate of 20km/h, takes seven and a half hours.

Actually, it is semi-arid. A completely arid desert is around Arizona... I believe New Mexico and Texas are semi-arid.

In any case, we're talking about an appreciable amount of the border remaining uncontrolled.

Time enough to identify them on radar and send a motorized patrol (unless you are willing to admit that the Aerostat Radar system is useless for ground based intercepts or that the patrolling officers are lazy and don't respond to the radar contacts).

Radar uses reflectivity to RF radiation. Humans are not visible on radar. There is also no radar at most of these locations because there is no infrastructure to handle them. The wall can be electrified to provide power to radar units (for light aircraft flying over) and ground sensors to detect tunneling activity.

TheRedneck

The cammo dudes (Wackenhut security??) use a microwave personnel "fence" around Groom Lake and I am familiar with a few defense contractor companies that have used similar tech.

Even someone doing an army crawl can't get past undetected and it appears to discriminate between animals and humans.

If it's not yet apparent to some of you that the Dem Party doesn't GAF about America's sovereignty, it's citizens or the illegals they're using as pawns to grandstand behind, then your blind as a bat. If they did give a crap we wouldn't be having this conversation.

This isn't as much to do about a wall as it is about power and the votes needed to achieve it. The Dems have been very linear for some time now about the degradation of this country. It's the big secret everyone knows but refuses to discuss. There's a fair share of Rep's who's hands are stained also.

originally posted by: soundguy
Nah, it’s just the basket of deplorables demonstrating what mindless robots they are. It’s not like they didn’t have the prior two years or 200 for that matter, to make this stand. Not to worry though, as soon as this dies down trump will lead them by nose to the next “big” thing that they didn’t care about the day before. Predictable as the sunrise.


a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Dumb as the day is long.

a reply to: chr0naut

The cammo dudes (Wackenhut security??) use a microwave personnel "fence" around Groom Lake and I am familiar with a few defense contractor companies that have used similar tech.

Even someone doing an army crawl can't get past undetected and it appears to discriminate between animals and humans.

Radar (RAdio Detection And Ranging) does not locate any organic bodies... it is used to detect metallic objects that reflect EM radiation. Without the reflection, there is no detection, and organic bodies simply do not reflect EM radiation.

Microwave sensors can detect organic bodies via a Doppler shift effect, but they have a few issues. First, they tend to give off false alarms. Second, they use a LOT of continuous power. Now, mounting them along a wall would not be a bad idea, as the wall itself could contain power transmission lines and a solid mounting point for the sensors. Without a wall or some other structure, there is simply no reasonable way to provide continuous power or to mount them.

I have been making a loose reference to similar sensor technology by stating there is no infrastructure along vast areas of the border... infrastructure meaning reliable power and solid mounting points. Ground penetrating radar would also be possible if infrastructure existed, to detect any tunneling attempts. It works by analyzing the speed the EM signals travel to and from slightly reflective surfaces, such as the boundary between earth and air. A low frequency GPR system could detect any tunneling attempts, and a properly-tuned conventional radar system could detect any low-flying aircraft crossing overhead.

And none of it is conceivable without a solid structure like a wall in place. With a wall, all of it becomes not just possible, but practical.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

The cammo dudes (Wackenhut security??) use a microwave personnel "fence" around Groom Lake and I am familiar with a few defense contractor companies that have used similar tech.

Even someone doing an army crawl can't get past undetected and it appears to discriminate between animals and humans.

Radar (RAdio Detection And Ranging) does not locate any organic bodies... it is used to detect metallic objects that reflect EM radiation. Without the reflection, there is no detection, and organic bodies simply do not reflect EM radiation.

Microwave sensors can detect organic bodies via a Doppler shift effect, but they have a few issues. First, they tend to give off false alarms. Second, they use a LOT of continuous power. Now, mounting them along a wall would not be a bad idea, as the wall itself could contain power transmission lines and a solid mounting point for the sensors. Without a wall or some other structure, there is simply no reasonable way to provide continuous power or to mount them.

I have been making a loose reference to similar sensor technology by stating there is no infrastructure along vast areas of the border... infrastructure meaning reliable power and solid mounting points. Ground penetrating radar would also be possible if infrastructure existed, to detect any tunneling attempts. It works by analyzing the speed the EM signals travel to and from slightly reflective surfaces, such as the boundary between earth and air. A low frequency GPR system could detect any tunneling attempts, and a properly-tuned conventional radar system could detect any low-flying aircraft crossing overhead.

And none of it is conceivable without a solid structure like a wall in place. With a wall, all of it becomes not just possible, but practical.

TheRedneck

QTI, who provide intrusion detection gear used at Groom Lake although not microwave.

Here's a microwave one" Senstar. They work best line of sight, without a wall, and can be camouflaged (like they do with cell 'phone towers these days).

a reply to: chr0naut

Here's a microwave one" Senstar. They work best line of sight, without a wall, and can be camouflaged (like they do with cell 'phone towers these days).

There is no magic, chr0naut.

The specs on these units give a maximum range of 200m. To cover 2000 miles, That's 16,000 of them... 16,000 potential false alarms to be verified by a human, 16,000 computers stationed along the border at remote locations that have to be checked on several times a day, and a few thousand portable power generators needing fueled at least once per day. And where do you mount them? On a tree? That's a guaranteed false alarm every time the wind blows.

As to that phrase, "They work best... without a wall," you are purposely twisting the description to fit your desires. They work best with no wall interfering with line-of-sight. A border wall equipped with them would not cause problems due to the wall being there... the wall would provide a stable surface to attach them to! For crying out loud, they are specifically designed to be used to protect compounds. Compounds have walls! Compounds are made of walls!

You're being purposely dense again. You know as well as I do that you are purposely misreading the specifications in order to shoot down the idea of a physical structure being needed at the border. I already gave you the theoretical operation characteristics of the major systems in operation today. That's not going to change, no matter how may times you spout nonsense on a Internet forum.

TheRedneck