Tell me Progressives... How is a wall immoral?

a reply to: TheRedneck

Never mind then... you have it all figured out.

a reply to: TheRedneck

So mexico is gonna rent the wall from us?

a reply to: Sillyolme

The biggest difference would be that they did not order a government shutdown depriving those americans of their livelihood. For one....

If you are referring to the House Democrats, they most certainly did create a government shutdown! They have not passed a budget yet to continue funding the government, which is their job as specified in the Constitution. Trump cannot 'order' a government shutdown... the most he can do is veto a bill to fund it, which he has not yet done.

You do realize what country we're discussing, right?

TheRedneck

a reply to: Unruhestifter

Funny its worked for over a century...but the statue is only a symbol. It was a symbol to the world representing what America stands for.
A wall keeping people out is the moral opposite of our core beliefs.

a reply to: Echo007

More people come in through Canada.... know the difference? Canadians are primarily white...

a reply to: Sillyolme

So mexico is gonna rent the wall from us?

Please go sit down before you hurt yourself.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

My country was under an occupation during that time and I wasn't permitted to express disapproval.

where are you from?

a reply to: TheRedneck

Hey you brought it up didnt you?

a reply to: TheRedneck

Obviously. Now is your opportunity to clarify.

I don't see any contradiction , where did I say it was immoral for a President to run om a policy he probably couldn't achieve.
All political policy pledges are aspirations until they are achieved regardless of party.

So do you or do you not support Trump declaring a National Emergency to divert military funds for a southern border wall construction? I don't want to misunderstand you again.

Rather than continuously saying "I'm going to hit you with this stick if you don't do what I say" I'd rather he used the stick and help the workers who've become the victims in all this.

At what point does someone not deserve to be paid?

So they're all super rich elite scumbags .

I agree... well, except so far I do support Trump. He's actually tried to do what he said he would. I'm sure that will change eventually.

At least we can agree on something then , apart from the Trump bit.

a reply to: Sillyolme

where are you from?

Alabama.

We've been part of the Union since 1819, with two exceptions... a short period of time during the War of Northern Aggression, and the years from 2009-2016.

TheRedneck

a reply to: gortex

I don't see any contradiction , where did I say it was immoral for a President to run om a policy he probably couldn't achieve.
All political policy pledges are aspirations until they are achieved regardless of party.

I don't see any clarification. Do you think a southern border wall is immoral?

Rather than continuously saying "I'm going to hit you with this stick if you don't do what I say" I'd rather he used the stick and help the workers who've become the victims in all this.

I'm going to take that as a yes. And I agree.

So they're all super rich elite scumbags .

How much makes them super-rich scumbags? Got a number?

At least we can agree on something then , apart from the Trump bit.

Agreed. Trump may follow too. It seems to be human nature to turn corrupt in Washington DC.

TheRedneck

Why didn’t the crybaby grandstand before now then? Remember this son, the senate passed a bill before the trump temper tantrum. And it would pass one now, if the mcturtle would allow a vote. This whole mess is on tRump and Mitch.a reply to: UKTruth

a reply to: TheRedneck

Do you think a southern border wall is immoral?

I don't think the wall is immoral I think the Presidents modus operandi to get the wall is immoral , he's created the problem and workers are paying the price.

How much makes them super-rich scumbags? Got a number?

Not particularly.

Agreed. Trump may follow too. It seems to be human nature to turn corrupt in Washington DC.

Power breeds corruption across the world.

a reply to: gortex

I don't think the wall is immoral I think the Presidents modus operandi to get the wall is immoral , he's created the problem and workers are paying the price.

Trump didn't create the problem; it has existed since before Ronald Reagan. That's actually why a wall is necessary: back in the 1980s, Reagan struck a deal with Congress: he would sign off on amnesty for all illegal aliens in the country if Congress would fund better border security. He did; they didn't. Since then, the problem has been growing steadily worse. Democrats ignored it and Republicans only paid it lip service. Now it is an emergency.

Now we need a wall, and no deals until Congress does what they promised to do. Can't trust the lying fools.

TheRedneck

a reply to: seeker1963

Trump should actually hold a press conference outside the walls of her house.
Whilst he is at it, he should bring along some homeless vets in SF and ask that she take them in.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: seeker1963

Trump should actually hold a press conference outside the walls of her house.
Whilst he is at it, he should bring along some homeless vets in SF and ask that she take them in.

Well, to be honest, she does have a wall around her property, but it isn't near as high as the cartoon one portrays. But it still hits the mark.

a reply to: seeker1963

Well, to be honest, she does have a wall around her property, but it isn't near as high as the cartoon one portrays.

That's just her generosity, letting the illegals carry smaller ladders.

TheRedneck

"I'll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it." - Donald Trump

Trump has to take the blame for the shutdown. He said he would. Why is everyone turning a blind eye to this? There are several posts in this thread about how it's "on the Democrats" and it's "Chuck and Nancy's fault". No it's not. It's Trump's fault. He said so himself.

Why do you all take Trump's word as gold on so many different subjects, but won't take his word for it on this? He specifically said it's his fault.
Now that he's seeing that the shutdown is a bad idea, he's pushing the blame onto anyone other than himself. Part of the definition of a coward, not owning up to your word.

Now, about the wall. "5 billion is nothing, why not just give it to him?" That's the reasoning of a bad parent. "He's throwing a temper tantrum, and it's just a little piece of candy, why not just give it to him?" Because he has to learn how to behave, that's why.

The majority of this country does not want the wall.
www.pewresearch.org...
(Point #3 in that article, 56% of people oppose expanding the wall, 40% support it)

That's why they shouldn't give in. He was not elected to build a wall. He was elected to govern the country according to the will of the people. The president is our employee. The majority of his employers do not want the wall, so to build it would go against what his employees want.

ETA: When you do the opposite of what your employers want, you tend to get fired. Or at least seriously reprimanded. It's in his best interest not to.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
It’s not that a wall is immoral in itself but rather opponents of the wall argue that it is immoral to use it to continue the shut down, holding workers pay cheques hostage to play political games and use it to detract from other issues. I think one of the sound bites recently what that a wall isn’t immoral but I effective.

I’m not sure that they are just saying that though... lots of sound bites and posts that the Wall is racist, immoral, inherently. Many were saying that long before the shut down.

a reply to: narrator

Trump has to take the blame for the shutdown. He said he would. Why is everyone turning a blind eye to this? There are several posts in this thread about how it's "on the Democrats" and it's "Chuck and Nancy's fault". No it's not. It's Trump's fault. He said so himself.

And he would be taking the blame... if Congress could send him a bill to sign. That's the way blame works... the person who has the power to cause the problem gets blamed.

Trump does not have the power to fund or defund the government. All he can do (and what he was talking about doing) is to veto a spending bill. Had he done so, I would agree with you. But he can't veto a bill he doesn't get! Is that so damn hard to understand?

Get on the phone to Chuck and Nancy and tell them to send him a bill that he'll veto. When he does, I will agree... it's Trump's fault then.

Now, about the wall. "5 billion is nothing, why not just give it to him?" That's the reasoning of a bad parent. "He's throwing a temper tantrum, and it's just a little piece of candy, why not just give it to him?" Because he has to learn how to behave, that's why.

Well, here's the thing: Trump is not the Congress' child, and the Congress is not Trump's parents. Many times in life a minor concession can lead to something one really wants. Don't forget, too, that the negotiations to keep the government open are not between Trump... they are between Trump and the Congress. Both of them have to agree, but Congress can't even get a bill together themselves. The same ones who are fighting any bill that will pass Congress are the ones also fighting the wall. So you can call Trump's tactics to get the wall a temper tantrum all you want, but to be taken seriously you then have to put the same label on the Congressional Democrats.

He was not elected to build a wall. He was elected to govern the country according to the will of the people.

That was certainly one reason I voted for him, and I daresay many. many others did too. There were very few things at his rallies that brought forth more cheering than his chant of "Build the Wall!" Pew Research can go take a long walk off a short pier; they do not speak for me. That means his 'employers' are in full agreement with the wall, as much as I know you would love to dispute that.

TheRedneck