Tell me Progressives... How is a wall immoral?

a reply to: Unruhestifter

To be honest trump should just declare a national emergency and take the cash from the military budget.

Rightly or wrongly there is a reason Trump has backed away from a national emergency.

He knows that it would be challenged legally and spun by the Dems as a abuse of power. It would be a nail in the coffin of his presidency. To bring this back round to the morality of said wall I think it would be seen as immoral by many to abuse his power in this way.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Unruhestifter

Democrats where in charge for 8 years and they did naff all.

Why didn't Trump get his funding when he controlled both houses ?

Because he probably didn't expect liberals to go nuts over something as simple as a wall.

He made the mistake of underestimating liberal stupidity and pettiness.

a reply to: UKTruth

At no point did Trump control both houses.

If that's the case how did he lose the House of Representatives in the midterms ?

Here's phase 1 of Turkey's wall. It covers the border and only took less than 4 years to build. It's over 900km.

a reply to: Unruhestifter

Trump wasn't the only one elected.

a reply to: gortex

Firstly a President does not control Congress. Congress is the legislative branch of the US govt. One of three separate and equal branches.
Secondly, even if the entire Republican party was 100% behind everything that Trump wanted to do, it requires 60 votes in the Senate to pass the majority of bills, including wall funding. So, over the past two years it was Democrats who had the final say in whether wall funding would go through.
This is basic knowledge that one should have before entering the debate.

The 'he controlled both houses' line is used by idiots or those that want to paint a picture that anything that didn't get done was Trump's fault.

a reply to: Unruhestifter

Because he probably didn't expect liberals to go nuts over something as simple as a wall.

The Democrats opposition to the wall has been clear from this side of the Atlantic for a while now , how could he not expect opposition.

He made the mistake of underestimating liberal stupidity and pettiness.

Impossible , the Donald doesn't make mistakes .... Ever !

Here's more of Turkey's wall... this shot shows one of the watch towers that can see for miles.



The speed at which it was built shows it's actually quite easy.
They have already started implementing electronic surveillance - once that is fully complete, the time it takes for anyone to scale the wall will mean that the border force is waiting for them on the other side.

Every single talking point... fence vs wall, immoral, impossible to build, detaining children, separating women, walls don't work, you can saw through steel, you can scale a wall, tunnels...blah blah blah... it's all nonsense.

The only debate is whether you are for illegal immigration or against it.

Those against the wall are in favour of illegal immigration, those that want the wall are against illegal immigration - it's really that simple.

a reply to: Unruhestifter

It only stops those that are weak and innocent. Ones who have nothing. The ones that truly need help.
The criminals have resources and are stronger so they find ways around it.

We should be helping those that need it .

a reply to: gortex

What is immoral is a President using public employees as a bargaining chip , working families are facing hardship because of his actions and his alone.

How is it immoral for Trump to do it, but moral for Democrats to do it? I still haven't got an answer to that one.

Probably because there isn't an answer that'll fly. You know it; I know it; everyone watching this debate who isn't brainwashed into partisan punditism knows it.

Why didn't Trump do this when he controlled both houses ?

Exactly when was this?

At what point since January 2017 was there a majority of Republicans in the House and 60 or more Republicans in the Senate?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Unruhestifter

It only stops those that are weak and innocent. Ones who have nothing. The ones that truly need help.
The criminals have resources and are stronger so they find ways around it.

We should be helping those that need it .

What a nonsensical argument full of feelz and no thinking.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

This is much more about the politics of the wall than it is about the money.

I agree; of course it is about politics. We have Pelosi, Schumer, Obama, and Clinton all on record saying the exact same thing Trump says: that we need a barrier along the southern border.

No, this is completely about politics. Specifically it is about one particular political party who lost an election and as a result now want to disenfranchise the half of the country who voted for the winner. "Vote for who we say or we'll make your life HELL!"

TheRedneck

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Unruhestifter

It only stops those that are weak and innocent. Ones who have nothing. The ones that truly need help.
The criminals have resources and are stronger so they find ways around it.

We should be helping those that need it .

Seeing as it was Obama, Hillary and the democrats that caused the cluster# in the middle east, would it be fair then for Trump to use eminent domain and seize the property of EVERY democrat that voted and supported the Syria and arab spring debacle and house refugee in them? I think that would be fair.

It’s only immoral cause it stops the Democrats from easily importing their voting base.

a reply to: Unruhestifter

Remember that immoral and moral are terms that suit your own values. They can easily be different based on the world you are brought up in and believe.

Also you bring up a subject that can be spoken about but you went on the attack.

That will not bring up any meaningful discussion on the subject.

originally posted by: Unruhestifter
Personally I don't think a wall will stop illegals. But meh 5 billions nothing for the USA, it probably spends that much on federal bog roll.
If it makes things more difficult for illegals, then I guess its a win.

However more of the progressives talking points is its "Immoral".

Its just a dammed wall. I have one around my yard. Most of you do to. Pelosi and most congressmen have walls around their mansions.

A wall doesn't kill anyone, it doesn't torture anyone. It just sits there.
How is that immoral?

It trump was proposing shooting immigrants at the border I would fully support the argument that it immoral. But a wall? No.

I tell you what is immoral progressives......starting a string of civil wars in the middle east, arming and supplying jihadi terrorist groups and undermining governments trying to fight those groups just screw Russia and thus causing a flood of refugees.......

I was going to post the same topic the other day but as it's been done I'll add to it.


I don't think a wall will keep illegals out either but it will send a strong message to the other side that they are not wanted and have been warned of further consequences if they try to get around it. The problem is that they can get around it by crossing by sea instead. Is it really immoral to build a wall to keep invaders out? They are coming in caravans and attempting to enter illegally aka invasion. Is the great wall of China immoral?

If Trump is going to have the wall, which I'm sure he will then he's going to need more coast-guard on both sides of that wall. A majority of border security would have to be split into new roles such as coast guard, CCTV operatives and Drug control.

The design in my mind was to run solar panels all the way across it so that it generates electricity for America. At the moment it's a dull concrete steel wall that doesn't look that attractive to anyone. You want a great wall? Make it energy producing infrastructure.

I don't like Trump that much personally but he cares about America and is doing the best he can.
Give him the funding and pull troops out of the middle east.
I'd be worried that America's next president decides to tear the wall down or scrap the project entirely for his/her own political gain (very likely).

a reply to: Unruhestifter

To be honest trump should just declare a national emergency and take the cash from the military budget. Just means a few less bombs to drop on the middle east.

See that's another issue.
Democrats love dropping bombs on brown people. They're upset we haven't found any new brown people to bomb since Trump got elected.

a reply to: Unruhestifter

A wall sends the exact opposite message that the statue of Liberty does.
Thats the simple answer....
This is not what America is about...
The land of opportunity for your ancestors and mine.
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Nowhere does it say send your rich and educated, send the best people and only those who can contribute. Keep the sick and keep the poor we dont want em.....

You know..... In A Nut Shell

originally posted by: Unruhestifter

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Unruhestifter
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

As I said 5 billion is nothing for the USA. Just give trump his 5 billion and move on to those other issues.

If you think this is a debate about $5bn then quite honestly I don’t think your fully grasping the situation. This is much more about the politics of the wall than it is about the money.

Trump was elected.

One of his promises was to build a wall.

Therefore building a wall is one of his mandates.


Unless its crime against humanity or something that is unachievable then a elected leader should be allowed to follow through on his mandate. Congress should only stop things if they are truly wrong or immoral (IE a crime against humanity), unconstitutional or would cause some sort of irreparable damage to the USA. None of those is the call with a wall.

AND HAVE MEXICO PAY FOR IT!......that was the rest of the promise he made in the same sentence....can you grasp sentence structure?

a reply to: TheRedneck

How is it immoral for Trump to do it, but moral for Democrats to do it? I still haven't got an answer to that one.

Democrats have signaled their opposition to the wall from the outset so it's obvious they will not agree to funding it , the immoral part comes in when the President of the United States uses American citizens as hostages to force Democrats to back down.

At what point since January 2017 was there a majority of Republicans in the House and 60 or more Republicans in the Senate?

When a guy who is supposed (by himself) to be a great deal maker resorts to blackmail by using workers livelihoods as a bargaining chip "The Art of the Deal" becomes a bit of a joke , who will pay the interest on the loans government workers are forced to take in order to keep their homes from being repossessed and their children fed ?

Trump is playing power politics with peoples lives yet his supporters defend his childish actions , I find that sad and a damming indictment of Trumpian America.

How is it that politicians still get paid during the shutdown while those who can least afford it are made to suffer ?