We should all probably realize that the space race was a great way to show the world our missile technology without being blatantly warmongering. Having said that, it would have cost more to actually fake it than DO it. The urge to DO it is just too strong to resist. Boys will be boys, and so will German and American scientists and military hardware lovers. FAKE it??!! Hell, no, lets LIGHT that candle!

Plus, amateur ham radio people were listening live with their DIRECTIONAL antennas pointed at the moon and nowhere else.

As to why haven't we gone back, when the Shuttle was proposed there was also to be, with funding linked to it, an ORBITAL TRANSFER VEHICLE to bring the cost of moon shots way down. Congress, in its fiscal wisdom, decided to KEEP the shuttle and KILL the OTV program. This left us with a neat ship that had - nowhere to go. Thus the scramble for space stations. And thus the fear and loathing many true space buffs feel towards NASA and bureaucracy in general.

Give it up, ECK. Lots of good folks did research, both on the Moon program and, hmmm, here at ATS. Maybe your questions have actually been answered. Perhaps you are - gasp - wrong.

Well then of course the Mars Rovers are fake. everyone knows that!




Anyways, I think the best propaganda victory was during the Cold War, regarding the "Star Wars Program".

Reagan said we were building all these things, and Russia wanted to keep up. Unfortunately, their economy couldn't keep up with what we were "building" and it collapsed, ending the Cold War. Best manuever ever. =]

-wD

Originally posted by UnMature
I just can't see why it's so hard to believe that a few brave men did some extraordinary and left our world for another one entirely and come back to a well deserved hero's welcome.

How old are you? (I'm not being a S.A.; it would shed light on your perspective in this matter.)

One thing is cetain, they really launched huge Apollo rockets from the rocket ranch in Florida. Now is that little capsule and lunar module really made it there i few times as our government claims then proving that now might be difficult. All those pictures of the Earth rising on the moon's landscape look so fake

Originally posted by Noumenon
We should all probably realize that the space race was a great way to show the world our missile technology without being blatantly warmongering. Having said that, it would have cost more to actually fake it than DO it.

Howzat? Do you have any idea what the cost of the space program was for that year alone, as opposed to say, Kubrik's most expensive film budget to date?

The urge to DO it is just too strong to resist. Boys will be boys, and so will German and American scientists and military hardware lovers. FAKE it??!! Hell, no, lets LIGHT that candle!

boys will be boys? Nope. Explain why no one else has done it. If your rationale was correct, Russia and China would've been right behind us. To date, NADA.

PsyOps is a MOFO.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
boys will be boys? Nope. Explain why no one else has done it. If your rationale was correct, Russia and China would've been right behind us. To date, NADA.
PsyOps is a MOFO.

Oh brother, you really have reached a new low.

You might want to look into the Russian N-1 program, which was their version of a moon lander. Pay close attention to the aftermath of numerous crashes.

Once the US won the space race (man on the moon) there was no longer a need to send manned vessels to the moon. The Russians sent up numerous unmanned rockets, and we exchanged rock samples with them back in the 70's.

After we had run the race the American people were no longer willing to pay such high amounts on the Space Program, NASA was scrambling to save the STS program (aka The Space Shuttle) and therefore had to cancel severeral subsequent missions (Apollos 18-20) to fund the R&D for the STS.

China was never in a position to put a man on the moon until now. They lacked the technology and resources to put a man into space (in a Chinese capsule) until only a few years ago.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Oh brother, you really have reached a new low.

Hey Noumenon, looks like you got a new friend.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Hey Noumenon, looks like you got a new friend.

Never thought I would see the day where you (of all people) would become a point whore. Never has your purpose here been more clearly demonstrated than with this post.

The mods should get together and deduct points for posts like this.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Hey Noumenon, looks like you got a new friend.

Never thought I would see the day where you (of all people) would become a point whore. Never has your purpose here been more clearly demonstrated than with this post.

The mods should get together and deduct points for posts like this.

Poor Cool Hand. Suffering from point envy.

What's that got to do with the moon landing, anyway?

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Uhh you guys do know that there is a current experiment going on involving shooting a laser and bouncing it off a mirror left behind by apallo 11 I believe. So unless it was placed there with robotics, then that is proof enough. Why even talk about this anyway? The private space industry will confirm it in like 10-15 years anyway when they finally go to the moon.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Uhh you guys do know that there is a current experiment going on involving shooting a laser and bouncing it off a mirror left behind by apallo 11 I believe. So unless it was placed there with robotics, then that is proof enough. Why even talk about this anyway? The private space industry will confirm it in like 10-15 years anyway when they finally go to the moon.

You believe?

Why talk about it? B/c MAYBE it didn't happen. Maybe our government lied. It is definitely possible.

And at that time, we shall see.

The highest res pic of the moon shows the Apollo landing site, and you can make out the blast mark from the capsule... I've shown it in quite a few of the "we didn't go to the moon" threads, but of course, the ongoing laser experiment, and a trip to badastronomy.com help to hammer the point home....

all good points, all I have to add is the folks who witnessed the launch. They must have been mass-hypnotized or something ?

If we had the goods to launch something that big, that went up as high as anyone could see, how much of a stretch is it to get to the moon from there ? wouldn't that be the easy part ?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
all good points, all I have to add is the folks who witnessed the launch. They must have been mass-hypnotized or something ?

If we had the goods to launch something that big, that went up as high as anyone could see, how much of a stretch is it to get to the moon from there ? wouldn't that be the easy part ?

YUP! Another nail in the coffin. Once you get into true orbit then it's a walk in the park getting to the moon. Relatively speaking of course. Nothing is space travel is easy. Faking it would be even harder IMHO.

[edit on 28-3-2005 by sardion2000]

I still have problems accepting the fact that we crossed the van allen belt in a a spacecraft that had the equivalence of heavy gauge tin foil skins.
As far as any equiptment or mirrors go--we proved we could put equiptment on mars wherever we wanted to, surely we could do the same 100,000,000 miles closer.

[edit on 28-3-2005 by kazi]

Originally posted by Noumenon


Plus, amateur ham radio people were listening live with their DIRECTIONAL antennas pointed at the moon and nowhere else.

As to why haven't we gone back, when the Shuttle was proposed there was also to be, with funding linked to it, an ORBITAL TRANSFER VEHICLE to bring the cost of moon shots way down. Congress, in its fiscal wisdom, decided to KEEP the shuttle and KILL the OTV program. This left us with a neat ship that had - nowhere to go. Thus the scramble for space stations. And thus the fear and loathing many true space buffs feel towards NASA and bureaucracy in general.

Give it up, ECK. Lots of good folks did research, both on the Moon program and, hmmm, here at ATS. Maybe your questions have actually been answered. Perhaps you are - gasp - wrong.

To this day I still cannot believe some people still bring this topic up! I've seen it on other forums and sites. It's a bad attempt at rewritting history. Too many younger people think that if they don't witness something, then it never happened. Sadly, its the fault of the older generations for not making more of an effort at preserving history, and teaching it. The school system (even worse in USA) is full of too much missinformation, partial information, and many times won't even teach some history... stopping at WW1 or WW2.

Very few people today even know about the HAM radio operators!

There's tooo many sites which debunk the idea that the USA never went to the moon. If any of you have 25 bucks, go visit the Hayden Planetarium in New York City. It's the most major planetarium in the world. They have blown up pics of the moon that are sooo huge the pics take up entire hallways and walls from floor to celing. I'm still stunned at how much detail of the moon they show!!!!!

+ Thousands of live people watched the rockets blast off. They went somewhere! LOL!
The RUSSIANS were watching too! So was China, N. Korea, Cuba, and other countries and all their scientists!!! If the US rocket didn't make it to the moon these other scientists in other countries would yell aloud about it!

+ Another thing, the rocket was hundreds of feet long. So any good telescope in the late 60's would be good enough to view it as it traveled to the moon.

+ I like the point how HAM radio operators had their recievers pointed AT THE MOON!

+ A lot of posters are trying to bring up the point "How come no more missions to the moon? From the USA or from other countries?". Good point. Now here's why:

1. The reasons Noumenon said.

2. All HAM radio operators know about another reason. Neil Armstrong decided to see what's on the dark side of the moon. Anyone who doesn't know about it, the dark side always faces away from earth! Always. When Neil got to the horizon his words were something like "Oh Sh---t! They're BIG!". Only HAM radio operators heard this cuz they had direct reception from the mission. NASA had a delay on what was being broadcast on TV and public radio.
Apparently Neil saw a mining colony put up by ... other beings. I don't want to use the word "aliens" because its been too watered down, dumbed down, over used. These other beings gave Neil a message that basically said "This is our sh--t. Don't ever come the f--- back! Or else!".
So even IF the USA attempted another moon mission it would be stopped. On earth, or while it was approaching the moon in space.

3. There's also speculation the moon might be a spaceship just like the 2 moons of mars are really 2 spaceships.

4. How come other countries haven't done moon missions with people?. Reason #2 ... and the USA doesn't want them to. Anyone remember a few years back when S. America tried to launch its space rocket? It got sabatoged by the CIA. Hell I knew it was gonna get sabatoged weeks before it blew up LOL! Was so obvious the USA wouldn't allow S. America to complete their own space program! Plus with the history of the CIA messing up S. America for decades.

Japan already has its own space shuttle. It doesn't do much with it!

So ya got other beings wanting us Earthers to stay in "our cage". And ya got the USA not wanting to lose its space program superiority to other countries.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Anyone intrested some more in why other beings won't let us Earthers "far from our cage" some books to check out:

"The 12th Planet" by Zecharia Sitchen. And after that his other books. Remember that Bible story about Nimrod and the tower he got everyone to build? Sitchen says there's waaay more to the story than any priest, rabbi, or clergy will ever talk about.

"The Bible" King James Version. I found out a few days ago the KJV has less misstranslations than other Bible versions. (I thank that guy in that other thread where we talked about how Adam and Eve were told to REplenish/REfill the earth.)
Anyway, if everyone re-reads the story about Nimrod:

Genesis 11

4And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

Everyone thinks that these ancient Earthers were trying to build the world's first skyscraper. Or... since it says "reach to heaven" then the first heavenscraper. BUT read carefully!

They want to build a tower, who's TOP will be able to reach heaven! A tower 5 miles tall? OR what's another way its top can reach heaven?
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.
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The top would be able to launch. If the top could lanuch, then yep, the top would be able to reach heaven!
Yes, they were planning on making a tower with a rocketship at the top.
Next you notice its gives as their reason that they want to "make a name"? What? They want to be famous by building a tall tower?

There's 1 other example of this phrase in the Bible. In the first mention of the Nephilim. It says the Nephilim were heros of old, men of [renown] or... fame. Aka synonym for "name". Men of name is same as men of fame. But the Nephilim survived the flood. How? They orbited earth in their spaceships then came back down again.

According to Sitchen, in Hebrew it says they were "heros of old, men of [the SHEM]."
In the Tower of Babel story, in Hebrew it says "let us make a [SHEM]."

The Hebrew word for fame, is NOT the word shem. Just like the Hebrew word for "lord" is adonai which never ever never appears at Psalm 83:18 yet many Bibles put the word "lord" there. Same with 95% of the rest of the Bible where the word "lord" appears.

5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

Notice it says the god of the Bible came down to see what was going on. He was a physical being, with eyes, who came down from space. To "come down" means he came down from space and landed on earth.

6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Here we go! The real kicker! God or the gods, feel THREATENED by this tower who's top will be able to reach heaven!!! God or the gods are complaining "oh no, now nothing will be impossible for man to accomplish! Anything they imagine they'll be able to do!".

Pause here. Why is this sooo bad? Huh? How is building a tall tower bad? Tall towers were built later on. The Syrians, Romans, even Jericho, all had tall towers. In modern times we have tall towers. H--l most churches have tall towers! And why would God, or the gods, feel threatened by a tall tower?
AHHH... now what if that was really a launch tower? "Who's top could reach heaven." The top of the tower litterally would be able to reach heaven! The top of the tower was a rocketship that would launch into heaven, that would litterally reach heaven! NOW... NOW... NOW it makes sense why God or the Gods would feel threatened!!! If those humans back then were allowed to pursue space travel, h--l yeah there's nothing they wouldn't be able to do!!!

7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

And folks, that's why it became known as the tower of Bable. Where we get the English word "Babble", or "babbling", when someone talks too much, or doesn't make sense when they say something.
The city where the Tower of Bable was built was early Babylon.


Just something to think about, and consider, on how those other beings don't want us humans to travel to the moon anymore. Or to other planets. Or even out of our solar system to other star systems, galaxies, and universes/dimensions/densities.

Anyone who needs more proof that its really the word SHEM that's there in the original Bible, and that all English Bibles misstranslate this word... find a Jewish person or rabbi, and ask to look at their Torah. Or buy a copy of the Torah at most major Bookstores. You can also learn Hebrew. Many schools, and Jewish schools, teach Hebrew.



[edit on 29-3-2005 by OpenSecret2012]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Noumenon
We should all probably realize (......) a great way to show the world our missile technology (....) cost more to actually fake it than DO it.

Howzat? Do you have any idea what the cost of the space program was for that year alone, as opposed to say, Kubrik's most expensive film budget to date?

The urge to DO it is just too strong to resist. Boys will be boys (.....) lets LIGHT that candle!

boys will be boys? Nope. Explain why no one else has done it. If your rationale was correct, Russia and China would've been right behind us. To date, NADA.

PsyOps is a MOFO.

1. Okay, I THINK I know the psy-ops advantage (to U.S. morale?) But please, spell out for us your idea of the exact motive for faking a landing. So we don't have to GUESS what you think the motive is. Do you think that it was IMPOSSIBLE technically at the time? Please state so, if that's the case. We HAD rockets capable of going 5 miles per second, and the Russians already knew it. ICBMs. The moonshots required about 7 mps. Are you suggesting that we DIDN'T have any real workable ICBMs? If so, proof?

2. SOMETHING was actually sent to the moon. That is a fact in the sense that any remote event CAN be known as fact. The "object" WAS tracked by multiple amateurs. Radio signals WERE beamed from the moon. And TV signals, although not picked up by as many amateurs in the U.S. (more expensive equipment needed), the TV signals WERE also picked up by numerous foreign and hostile nations using DIRECTIONAL antennae. None of which declared a hoax or even doubt. Are you positing, then, that either a: all the governments and individuals of the world actually DIDN'T receive these signals, or, b: that something was there but it wasn't humans? (e.g., a radio and TV transmitter and tapes to broadcast the fake broadcast?)

3. If you grant that SOMETHING was sent to the moon, compare THAT budget to Kubrik's. And explain how a huge military-industrial complex would actually want to save money, anyway. Why?

4. Ever seen a rocket launch live? (not ECK). If F=MA, can you explain that kinetic energy equals 1/2M(V squared) (not ECK) Why is the derivitive of flux, current? (well, it says a lot about radio, for one thing) Anyway, understand those things and then come back to this topic.

5. Now please get back to Bush-bashing. You do it so well and we love it so much!

[edit on 4/2/2005 by Noumenon]