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Now it's only a waiting game

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posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer


You're missing the point im trying to focus on: why now? Why didn't Trump deal with this when Republicans controlled everything?

According to his tweets, Trump signed that Omnibus monstrosity on a promise that he would have wall funding in a bill on his desk before 2019. I have no reason to doubt that; such deals have been the norm in government all my life. Reagan got caught in the same trap in the 1980s, and he rolled over and played dead.

The issue seems to have been that the Senate Democrats were able to block the bill using the 60-vote cloture rule.

At least Trump isn't rolling over and playing dead. The immigration issue at the southern border has been a problem for at least 30 years now, and every administration since Reagan has kicked it a little farther out for someone else to deal with. It needs to be fixed, because with every kick it just gets that much bigger. So no, the emergency didn't start with the new Congress... the new Congress has simply locked the door that the old Congress closed, and Trump isn't going to let it slide this time. The optics of this little lobbying trip to Puerto Rico (and that's all it is, an exotic vacation with income opportunity for selling their votes to lobbyists) is likely making a lot of Democratic voters and certainly many Independent voters sit up and go "what are you fools doing?!?"

TheRedneck




posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 12:01 PM
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Out of curiosity, how many times does a liar have to lie before you no longer trust them? However you do reinforce what most of us already know about right wing types. As long as you motivate them through their bigotry and bias you can pretty much get them to believe anything and act accordingly.


www.washingtonpost.com...


a reply to: TheRedneck

edit on 14-1-2019 by soundguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2019 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: soundguy


Out of curiosity, how many times does a liar have to lie before you no longer trust them? However you do reinforce what most of us already know about right wing types. As long as you motivate them through their bigotry and bias you can pretty much get them to believe anything and act accordingly.

Damn.

We were having (I thought) a civilized discussion.

I haven't seen a lie from Trump yet. I've seen a few failures (compared to many successes), some misspeaks, and a lot of simplification, but no outright, intentional, malicious lies like every other politician in my lifetime. I also don't like being called a racist, since people like to classify me as a conservative now-a-days.

People used to call me liberal many years ago. I haven't changed my views.

But, I guess that's what I get for expecting simple intelligent debate.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 07:56 AM
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originally posted by: soundguy
Out of curiosity, how many times does a liar have to lie before you no longer trust them? However you do reinforce what most of us already know about right wing types. As long as you motivate them through their bigotry and bias you can pretty much get them to believe anything and act accordingly.


www.washingtonpost.com...


a reply to: TheRedneck


I'll take a page out of your book and attack your source. Washington post is faker than even CNN. Nothing they post can be taken with any seriousness. They bend the truth more than Uri Geller can bend a spoon. If you can post a source that is non-biased then maybe I'll give it a read and see if it has any credence.

Generalizing people who don't agree with your extremely biased opinion, as being bigots is unoriginal. Also, using such a biased source to attack someone while claiming they are biased makes you the pot meeting the kettle. Attacking Redneck doesn't make him look bad. It just makes you look bad as well as guilty of what you accuse others of being.

Let me ask you the same. How many times does a liar have to lie before you no longer trust them? However you do reinforce what most of us already know about left wing types. As long as you motivate them through their bigotry and bias you can pretty much get them to believe anything and act accordingly. Does that sound condescending enough?

Everything you stated applies to you and left wing types as well.

big·ot·ry
[ˈbiɡətrē]
NOUN
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

For more Examples see soundguy posts.

Not cool being attacked is it?


As for the topic, I somewhat agree with the OP. I see Trump as the monkey wrench thrown into the globalist machine. He was never supposed to be elected. Now that he has, all the corruption we knew existed, but could not prove, is slowly being exposed. Whether you like Trump or not you have to admit this is a good thing. NeoCons and NeoLibs are hating Trump. The rest of us are getting a rare chance to see their melt downs, as they remove their masks showing the truth of their intentions.



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: LumenariLet's face it... Democrats will blame Republicans.

Republicans will blame Democrats.


Let's ask Trump who's to blame for the shutdown. I'll quote his exact words:


'I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don't want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it.'


(Source).

Yeah, that's what I thought.



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: MrSporkster

If Trump shut the government down, he can open it back up, right? What should he do to open it up?

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 08:39 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: MrSporkster

If Trump shut the government down, he can open it back up, right?


Right.


What should he do to open it up?


Present a bill that will pass Congress.
edit on 15-1-2019 by MrSporkster because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 03:10 AM
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a reply to: MrSporkster


Present a bill that will pass Congress.



That's not his job. His job is to execute the laws Congress passes, to act as a check and balance on Congressional powers (veto power), and act as the Commander in Chief of the military. He can present legislation if he wants, but that is primarily Congress' job.

Let me rephrase: what can he do within Constitutional boundaries?

TheRedeck



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 03:19 AM
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a reply to: JinMI



In 5 More Days the President will be able to Retire Unnecessary Federal Employees in Mass by Law .







posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 08:53 AM
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originally posted by: [post=24104737]TheRedneck


Do you not realize how you have had to change your argument from your last post to this post? Your last post argued that Trump made "multiple" proposals and Nancy shot them all down.

However now, you are attempting to alter your argument to say that one proposal, which was actually an ultimatum, fits your original argument. Seriously, is your moral fabric so flimsy that you will do or say anything just to avoid having to admit that you were wrong? You straight up lied and said the following:


The characterization I heard reported was that every time Trump made a proposal, Pelosi opposed it.



I asked you to provide those reports you heard, and your response was to instead attempt to look smug. If there is a report that characterizes it in the way you state provide it. If it doesn't exist do you realize that you really are morally bankrupt. You are willing to make up falsehoods just so you can defend Trump. That right there should be enlightening but I doubt you have the capacity to understand it.

Trump is the president, I have never claimed otherwise. I do not believe he is fit to be president but that is another discussion. However, Nancy Pelosi is the Speaker of the House and she does NOT have to do what the President tells her to do. If you remember George W Bush made Social Security reform one of his campaign promises. When he wanted to get Social Security reform passed by Congress he was not able to get it through. The Speaker of the House told him to go pound sand. I'm sure you're thinking "Those Democrats were just being obstructionists just like now", but guess what? The Speaker of the House who told Bush no was Dennis Hastert - Republican.

You need to wake up! You see there is this framework that the founders of this country put in place called "Seperation of Power” which based on your past posts you obviously have no clue how it works. You see, the president has power but so does the House, the Senate and the judiciary.

Apparently, you want to live in a kingdom where the top executive can just tell everyone what to do. You see, the president can’t just tell the legislature what to do, that is not how it works. If that is really what you want there is still a few of those around if you want to move.

Also, you never once have addressed the fact that Trump told Congress prior to Christmas that he was ok with the spending bill without any money for the wall. Then after both branches of Congress voted overwhelmingly bipartisanly to approve said spending bill and many members of Congress had already left for their home districts Trump decides he wants money for the wall (has nothing at all to do with Rush and Ann Coulter calling Trump our on Twitter, nope none at all). So Trump shuts down the government and does the exact opposite of what he said he would do just days earlier.


"I'll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck," Trump told the top Senate Democrat. "So, I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it."
[1]

But after the government actually shut down Trump decides to try and weasel his way out of his own words. Now he claims it's the Democrats who shut down the government and the majority of America isn't buying it. The only people buying that this shutdown is because of Democrats are people like yourself who will believe anything that comes out of Trumps mouth.

The man is a pathological liar and horrendous leader. Yes, he was elected president but that does not mean he is necessaryly a good leader. Whenever anyone describes the traits of a good leader these three words are almost ubiquitous: honesty, integrity, and accountability. If anything Trump is the opposite of those three traits. He is a documented pathological liar. By examining his actions at his charity it is easy to see he has no integrity because instead of being a good Steward of the money donated to his charity he instead used it as a personal piggy bank. And lastly, the way he is handling the government shutdown is a great example of how Trump deals with accountability. He believes he is never at fault, it is always someone else's fault. I forget the original author of this quote but it is extremely poignant in this situation:


A good leader takes little more than his share of the blame and little less than his share of the credit


So Trump is a horrible leader but the economy is good right? Yes it is good, for now. Economies take time to either ramp up or ramp down. There are very few actions that a President can take to make immediate changes to the economy. Most policies or actions take months or years before their effects are even felt.

When Trump took office he inherited an economy that was in great shape. It had been recovering for about 5 years thanks to the policies put in place by *gasp* Obama. The 2008 recession was the product of many things but one of the major contributors was the 1994 Clinton policy of allowing unregulated mortgages be issued to individuals with sub prime credit. This led to mortgage companies creating mortgages that were great for their bottom line but bad for consumers. That policy took 14 years for its full effects were felt on the economy. In the same way, there is very little Trump could do since taking office that would mean he is responsible for all the activity in the economy now. His deregulation and tax cut were like injecting nitrous into an already well running engine.

However, the long term effects are not yet known. Speaking of long term effects his trade war has not yet affected the economy but you can expect to start seeing results in a few more months. He is being far too disruptive and markets don’t like that. In the long run I guarantee that Trump will prove to be a negative to our economy.

[1] [url=https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/12/11/politics/trump-pelosi-schumer-meeting-shutdown/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F]Trump defends shutdown threat after clashing with Pelosi, Schumer
edit on 16-1-2019 by BlackJackal because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 12:00 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal


Do you not realize how you have had to change your argument from your last post to this post? Your last post argued that Trump made "multiple" proposals and Nancy shot them all down.

You do realize I am well aware of what you're attempting to do, right? This is the same thing that is being tried on Trump.

My position has not changed since Ronald Reagan. Please search those memory banks or use Google to understand that there were Presidents before Barrack Obama... I have no intention of trying to play "twist the narrative" on you again there. It's not complicated...

There is insufficient border security along the US-Mexico border and it is leading to issues with excessive numbers of indigent peoples using social programs intended for Americans, increased crime, and economic depression. The border in question is too long and too easy to cross to be controlled without some sort of physical barrier. A physical barrier that restricts free movement across the border is therefore needed. Since Congress has already reneged once with Ronald Reagan, no deal should be made whatsoever that does not include some sort of substantial physical barrier.

I'll also add that

The present immigration system is outdated and insufficient, and needs to be streamlined to promote legal immigration for both potential citizenship and migrant workers. But this cannot happen without a controlled border.

That is my position. You can agree or disagree with it. I suggest a more reasonable position, however; your position appears to me to be something along the lines of "Trump bad! Trump want wall! Wall bad!"

Everything I have said is based on my position above. News reports come and go, but my position, unlike yours, remains.

If you want anyone to take anything you say seriously, however, I strongly suggest you stop losing the argument before it starts by including snide remarks. Young children do that, and it makes you appear to be a young child. I'll accept that you are, as you say, in your 60s... but if you are, please act your age. I reserve the right to change my mind on that.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 17 2019 @ 09:41 PM
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