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The "Walls Don't Work" Argument is the Stupidest One Yet.

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posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:54 PM
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posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: Propagandalf

The illegal immigrants problem would be on the way to being fixed if Government benefits only applied to citizens and valid green card holders. Without the lure of free money many might not come.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: amazing
I don't think anyone's saying walls don't work, at least no the rational people. I don't think anyone's saying that we don't need border security, at least not the rational people.

A wall by itself though is nothing. If you go to the most secure borders in the world, they are way more than walls...In a lot of cases it's more about towers, wire, fencing, other types of obstacles, drones etc.

We get too caught up in "we need a wall" and I get it, but. If you get this wall, then how much more money does it take for all the stuff that makes the wall/border actually secure. You're too focused on the wall.

And if you're talking about no borders, open borders, that's fine, but when you're talking about Mexico, you need to have some programs in place that beef up Mexican security/economy. How much would that cost?

Things to consider.

And to lighten the mood, I wish I knew how to imbed. There's a great Trump video going around from the mid 2000s with him talking about obstacles and saying. If you see concret wall in front of you go over, through or around it. But get to the other side. LOL I love it!

And keep in mind that it's a very secure border, which is what we want, but there is no wall running all the way across Korea.


There will be increased Border Agents along with the wall.


And that's what we need. Increased Border Agents is more important than a wall.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated




We need to do all those other things too. However, a wall stops large numbers of people from crossing over. It is a relatively low cost / low tech solution that works. No, it won't be 100% effective but it will be extremely effective.


I'm not against the wall , what I have a problem with is the implementation plan.

The order they are implementing the solution is the most costly and least effective solution that is a constant uphill battle. The proposed solution appears to suggest that they aren't really looking to address the issue on EITHER side. Which is not shocking, since completely stopping illegal immigration too quickly would likely crash our economy . We are just to dependent on illegals.

Before investing billions into a wall, we need to FIRST go after the American companies (small and big) that are giving the illegal incentives to come here. We need to make it NOT cost effective for American companies to hire illegals who currently find it worth taking the risk . Currently there is no effective efforts being put into this.

Secondly once you stop giving illegals incentives to come here via no jobs and no welfare benefits a GOOD portion of them will not find it worth while to spend the little money they have to only be rejected and sent back with no money.

Once a GOOD portion of them stop coming here illegally due to the lack of incentives, that leaves our current resources that we have today to better manage the few that are coming solely with bad intentions.

Then lets reassess the situation again and see if we really need that wall or portions of it or other better type technologies.

In the end whether you build the wall or not you need to stop giving illegals incentive to come here or it will fail just like the war on drugs. However, unlike the war on drugs we can get rid of the demand rather easy by making it cost prohibitive for American companies to hire them.

So with the wall you need to stop the incentive anyways. However, By stopping the incentive you may not need the wall or atleast much less of it.

The Solution trump is proposing is like the war on drugs and ignoring the demand.

They are suggesting to build a fence around your house. However they are ignoring the fact that you are sitting inside your house and telling the world that if they get past your fence they can have your big screen 400" tv and anything else they want. Furthermore If they get caught crossing the fence , they will just get sent back to the other side of the fence so they can try again. Its a unproductive and uphill battle and in the end you may not even need that fence.



edit on 11131America/ChicagoThu, 10 Jan 2019 17:11:09 -0600000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: Propagandalf

I know but it’s mostly the Fox News media cult that is pushing this manufactured crisis at the border.
It’s crazy that people support this kind of primitive technology in today’s day and age, right?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein
a reply to: Propagandalf

I know but it’s mostly the Fox News media cult that is pushing this manufactured crisis at the border.
It’s crazy that people support this kind of primitive technology in today’s day and age, right?


Yeah, It was only a few months ago they were screaming that there was a humanitarian crisis at the border, with family separations, tear gas and such. All it took was some fake photos from Obama's time to get them riled up. Now, around 6 or so months later, it's all a manufactured crisis. How quickly squishy minds adapt, especially with the press telling them what to think and say.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: interupt42


eVerify.

Already paid for. Working since 2008. Why not make it mandatory? What are our lawmakers afraid of?

So, we are going to spend 20-30 billion on a wall, but we won't use the one tool we already own to take away the incentive for illegal workers to come to the US?

OK. Makes sense to me...





posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:15 PM
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a reply to: Propagandalf
Totally. I guess we’ll have to keep our fingers crossed that the world wakes up and gets rid of all the walls that separate us.
One day, right?
No borders and no need for walls and guns.
That’s what I love about America!! Right?



edit on 10-1-2019 by EmmanuelGoldstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein
a reply to: Propagandalf
Totally. I guess we’ll have to keep our fingers crossed that the world wakes up and gets rid of all the walls that separate us.
On day, right?
No borders and no need for walls and guns.
That’s what I love about America!! Right?


ISIS tried to do the same thing to set up their world-wide caliphate. The same with Soviet Russia. They had no time for borders. Given their numbers, I think it might be a while before reaching your goal, personally. Best of luck, though.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:22 PM
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I would like to Chuck and Nancy climb over a 30 foot wall, if they do it then we can talk about how ineffective it might be.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:27 PM
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When will people admit it.

The real reason 'walls won't work' is because Trump is for it.

Had Trump said he was against walls his haters would be for it.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

The wheel is also primitive tech. We need to get rid of all those too.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: dug88

i keep asking this question like what



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: toms54

brilliant



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey




Already paid for. Working since 2008. Why not make it mandatory? What are our lawmakers afraid of?

So, we are going to spend 20-30 billion on a wall, but we won't use the one tool we already own to take away the incentive for illegal workers to come to the US?

OK. Makes sense to me...


They are afraid of tanking the US economy if they truly stop illegal immigration. Neither party is looking to fix the issue , instead both sides are looking to never let a good crisis go to waste.


Everify is smoke screens as well. The Whole system is setup to work like its doing something against Illegals, but in reality it is not.

I have written about this before Where I had an employee give me their SS# and it was something like 111-11-1111. I sent the SS to an external reputable payroll and vetting company expecting to come back with a big Hell no that isn't a legit SS#. I was shocked when they said its valid , even the payroll company lady was scratching her head. After pursuing it further from her end she found out its not an uncommon shared number but still stumped that it comes back as valid. Long story short I find out later that in fact she was an illegal. In essence the system is setup to give an appearance there are measures in place to prevent the hiring or illegals. In reality, the system looks the other way and it allows illegals to be hired legally.

They don't want to fix it , because our economy is too dependent on illegals. Instead they are taking opportunity to exploit the issue.
edit on 05131America/ChicagoThu, 10 Jan 2019 20:05:36 -0600000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 07:02 PM
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originally posted by: roadgravel
Remove the incentive to enter the US, per Ron Paul.

Well, that was done, it's illegal. The issue now is having the government enforce it. Sanctuary cities, illegals being hired to work which is illegal, illegals just dumped into states (Texas), and so on.

We have the Secure Border Act of 2006. Finish by adding the rest of the border fencing and enforcing the laws.


That was suppose to be the Secure Fence Act, if anyone was going to look it up.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 07:35 PM
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Having paid attention to the wall the following can be stated:

This wall is a bad idea, for the following reason: it was sold to the public on a lie and fear.

When it was presented, it played on the fears of people. And it was told on a lie, along with fear to get people to agree to it.

While I agree that we do need boarder security, however there are a few truths that need to be addressed that is not being stated.

The first is that this wall is not going to cost the amount stated, not by any long shot. The initial cost does not translate out to the actual cost. It is just the wall, not the cost for the people who have to do the work, and put it up, but just the wall. Nor does it cover the yearly cost for the upkeep of it either. It is going to suffer damager every year due to the environment, and from humans as well.

Some have stated we need more border patrols, however, that too is going to be costly, as it means that there needs to be far more people patrolling, running a watch on the border, 24 hours a day, and all year long.

And this will not solve the problem. The main cause of this problem, is not fear, but the red tape of the immigration system that is overwhelmed, underfunded, and understaffed in such a sever way that it makes this problem far worse than what it should be. So how is a wall going to help, but only make things worse in a system that is already overwhelmed?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 07:52 PM
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The wall in Israel is working. Ask China how well their wall worked for centuries. Sure it is not 100% effective but is a lot better than an open border. It will keep the unorganized illegals out for the most part and that is a huge % of the problem.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: Starwatcher




The wall in Israel is working. Ask China how well their wall worked for centuries.


Different circumstances.
Neither Israel nor China are or were giving the intruders incentives to come over the wall for jobs and benefits with very little consequences.

The US unlike Israel and China are giving illegals incentives to come here.

Just like the war on drugs is a failure due to Americans demand for it. So will be the wall as long as American companies find it worth the risk to hire illegals and give them incentives to come. If there is a demand it will be met just like with the illegal drugs. However, unlike with drugs we can stop the demand for illegals rather easily and even make money of it to pay for part of the wall if required.

Note I'm not necessary against the wall. I just think the strategy to implement the wall first is the most costly , least effective, and non manageable solution.

see my link to Edumakated above, Not sure why linking doesn't take you to it directly
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 25131America/ChicagoThu, 10 Jan 2019 20:25:47 -0600000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2019 @ 03:25 AM
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a reply to: Propagandalf

I'm smart enough to get passed a wall.

Are you?




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