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The "Walls Don't Work" Argument is the Stupidest One Yet.

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posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: Propagandalf

Sure...walls work wonders.

Solar powered drug tunnel...

Secret Tunnels...

smuggling tunnel


secure the border with Egypt.

North America
US–Canada
In early 2005, a group of Canadian drug smugglers took up the idea, and constructed a tunnel between a greenhouse in Langley, British Columbia and the basement of a house in Lynden, Washington, which lay across the ditch marking the Canada–US border (the house on the Langley side was on 0 Avenue ("Zero Avenue"), which runs parallel to the border and is the baseline of Langley's avenue-numbering system). They bought the two properties and began construction work. Authorities were alerted when a neighbor noticed the large-scale construction work being undertaken in the greenhouse. Inspection revealed that tons of construction material were entering, and piles of earth were coming out.

It became known within a short time, by both American and Canadian border authorities, that a tunnel was being built. Video and audio devices were installed secretly by United States customs officials both at the termini and in the tunnel itself. On July 14, the tunnel having been completed, the first packs of marijuana began going through. Officials raided the home soon afterward and arrested the three men, who then appeared before court in Seattle.[4] The tunnel was sealed and the roads above it were rebuilt, but the US house where the tunnel exited still exists.[5]

US–Mexico
As of September 30, 2015, 183 illicit cross-border tunnels have been discovered in the United States since Fiscal Year 1990.[6]

On January 25, 2006, a tunnel was found on the US-Mexico border by a joint US Drug Enforcement Administration, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and US Border Patrol task force. The 2,400-foot (730 m) long tunnel runs from a warehouse near the Tijuana airport to a warehouse in San Diego. When discovered, it was devoid of people, but it did contain 2 short tons (1,800 kg) of marijuana. It was 5 feet (1.5 m) high and up to 90 feet (27 m) deep. The floor was made of cement, and the walls were exposed clay, with lights lining one side, a ventilation system to keep fresh air circulating, and a water drainage system to remove infiltrating ground water. Authorities said it was unclear how long the tunnel had been in operation.


So how deep are these "walls" supposed to go?

A wall is a symbol of comfort to you. It's okay. Not just you, but many others find the symbol ingratiating and the idea that there's a wall lets you sleep comfortably at night. Walls are just a symbol. They won't stop or even stem the tide of drugs, but they may slow illegal immigrants a little bit. Just a little.


You guys are either being purposely stupid or you really don't understand basic statistics and nothing works 100% of the time.

My god... someone hit the lottery. The odds are like 1 out of gazillion to be a winner. Therefore, if you want to be a millionaire, play the lottery! This is how stupid you sound....

Yes, somebody somewhere might build a tunnel. They might figure out a ladder system. Hell, they may figure out how to fly themselves over on a drone. However, THESE ARE EXCEPTIONS. The vast majority as in like 99% cannot and will not take those steps to cross a barrier.

Good grief, you people cannot possibly be this dense....


That would be more convincing if the OP wasn't trying to convince people walls do work based on anecdotes.

I am intrigued however intrigued by your 99% claim. Do you have a source for that?




posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: dug88

All right, if barriers don't work. Why don't we have similar floods of people just pouring over the east and west coast? I mean, those big oceans must not be at all effective in keeping people out. Anyone can just come right in because barriers don't work, right, including natural ones?

But maybe, those oceans works quite well as natural barriers concentrating any illegal entry to the actual ports where people are smuggled in via shipping. Sure, some still get brought in, but nowhere near like the southern border where you just walk right over all along its length.


The ocean is how a lot of drugs get into the US.


The Coast Guard is the nation's first line of defense against drug smugglers seeking to bring illegal substances into the United States. The Coast Guard coordinates closely with other federal agencies and countries within a vast six million square-mile region to disrupt and deter the flow of illegal drugs. Coast Guard drug interdiction accounts for more than half of all U.S. government seizures of coc aine each year.


Source



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: Propagandalf

Sure...walls work wonders.

Solar powered drug tunnel...

Secret Tunnels...

smuggling tunnel


secure the border with Egypt.

North America
US–Canada
In early 2005, a group of Canadian drug smugglers took up the idea, and constructed a tunnel between a greenhouse in Langley, British Columbia and the basement of a house in Lynden, Washington, which lay across the ditch marking the Canada–US border (the house on the Langley side was on 0 Avenue ("Zero Avenue"), which runs parallel to the border and is the baseline of Langley's avenue-numbering system). They bought the two properties and began construction work. Authorities were alerted when a neighbor noticed the large-scale construction work being undertaken in the greenhouse. Inspection revealed that tons of construction material were entering, and piles of earth were coming out.

It became known within a short time, by both American and Canadian border authorities, that a tunnel was being built. Video and audio devices were installed secretly by United States customs officials both at the termini and in the tunnel itself. On July 14, the tunnel having been completed, the first packs of marijuana began going through. Officials raided the home soon afterward and arrested the three men, who then appeared before court in Seattle.[4] The tunnel was sealed and the roads above it were rebuilt, but the US house where the tunnel exited still exists.[5]

US–Mexico
As of September 30, 2015, 183 illicit cross-border tunnels have been discovered in the United States since Fiscal Year 1990.[6]

On January 25, 2006, a tunnel was found on the US-Mexico border by a joint US Drug Enforcement Administration, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and US Border Patrol task force. The 2,400-foot (730 m) long tunnel runs from a warehouse near the Tijuana airport to a warehouse in San Diego. When discovered, it was devoid of people, but it did contain 2 short tons (1,800 kg) of marijuana. It was 5 feet (1.5 m) high and up to 90 feet (27 m) deep. The floor was made of cement, and the walls were exposed clay, with lights lining one side, a ventilation system to keep fresh air circulating, and a water drainage system to remove infiltrating ground water. Authorities said it was unclear how long the tunnel had been in operation.


So how deep are these "walls" supposed to go?

A wall is a symbol of comfort to you. It's okay. Not just you, but many others find the symbol ingratiating and the idea that there's a wall lets you sleep comfortably at night. Walls are just a symbol. They won't stop or even stem the tide of drugs, but they may slow illegal immigrants a little bit. Just a little.


I remember when that tunnel was found. Langley's not very far away from me. It was actually a pretty cool tunnel.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
So the future for American people is to be walled in ,OK and a task force operating within the country trying to weed out illegals...

Will freedom taste a little bitter as you hand over your papers showing you're a legitimate citizen, will it be like the TSA but out in the streets ...looks and sounds like hell to me...


That's what would happen if there was no wall.



It's not happening now though is it, my guess is soon as the wall is built it will, how else will government justify the expenditure? You know all that money spent on the wall and the illegals are still getting in, this is slippery slope territory...


On the other side of that proverbial wall is the third world. These are essentially narco states, full of corruption, drugs and violence. If you import all that you'll find a world much worse than the TSA.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: Propagandalf

Sure...walls work wonders.

Solar powered drug tunnel...

Secret Tunnels...

smuggling tunnel


secure the border with Egypt.

North America
US–Canada
In early 2005, a group of Canadian drug smugglers took up the idea, and constructed a tunnel between a greenhouse in Langley, British Columbia and the basement of a house in Lynden, Washington, which lay across the ditch marking the Canada–US border (the house on the Langley side was on 0 Avenue ("Zero Avenue"), which runs parallel to the border and is the baseline of Langley's avenue-numbering system). They bought the two properties and began construction work. Authorities were alerted when a neighbor noticed the large-scale construction work being undertaken in the greenhouse. Inspection revealed that tons of construction material were entering, and piles of earth were coming out.

It became known within a short time, by both American and Canadian border authorities, that a tunnel was being built. Video and audio devices were installed secretly by United States customs officials both at the termini and in the tunnel itself. On July 14, the tunnel having been completed, the first packs of marijuana began going through. Officials raided the home soon afterward and arrested the three men, who then appeared before court in Seattle.[4] The tunnel was sealed and the roads above it were rebuilt, but the US house where the tunnel exited still exists.[5]

US–Mexico
As of September 30, 2015, 183 illicit cross-border tunnels have been discovered in the United States since Fiscal Year 1990.[6]

On January 25, 2006, a tunnel was found on the US-Mexico border by a joint US Drug Enforcement Administration, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and US Border Patrol task force. The 2,400-foot (730 m) long tunnel runs from a warehouse near the Tijuana airport to a warehouse in San Diego. When discovered, it was devoid of people, but it did contain 2 short tons (1,800 kg) of marijuana. It was 5 feet (1.5 m) high and up to 90 feet (27 m) deep. The floor was made of cement, and the walls were exposed clay, with lights lining one side, a ventilation system to keep fresh air circulating, and a water drainage system to remove infiltrating ground water. Authorities said it was unclear how long the tunnel had been in operation.


So how deep are these "walls" supposed to go?

A wall is a symbol of comfort to you. It's okay. Not just you, but many others find the symbol ingratiating and the idea that there's a wall lets you sleep comfortably at night. Walls are just a symbol. They won't stop or even stem the tide of drugs, but they may slow illegal immigrants a little bit. Just a little.


You guys are either being purposely stupid or you really don't understand basic statistics and nothing works 100% of the time.

My god... someone hit the lottery. The odds are like 1 out of gazillion to be a winner. Therefore, if you want to be a millionaire, play the lottery! This is how stupid you sound....

Yes, somebody somewhere might build a tunnel. They might figure out a ladder system. Hell, they may figure out how to fly themselves over on a drone. However, THESE ARE EXCEPTIONS. The vast majority as in like 99% cannot and will not take those steps to cross a barrier.

Good grief, you people cannot possibly be this dense....


That would be more convincing if the OP wasn't trying to convince people walls do work based on anecdotes.

I am intrigued however intrigued by your 99% claim. Do you have a source for that?


Why do prisons have walls if they don't work? Please walk us through your logic step by step...

Do prison walls stop 100% of escape attempts? No they do not... however, the vast majority don't attempt...

So are you really arguing that just because there could be a breach that a wall is not effective in keeping out the vast majority?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:08 PM
link   
a reply to: ScepticScot




That would be more convincing if the OP wasn't trying to convince people walls do work based on anecdotes.

I am intrigued however intrigued by your 99% claim. Do you have a source for that?


On common sense, actually. The opposite of a wall is no wall. Which works more at keeping people out, a wall or no wall?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:09 PM
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These people arent that dense. Im telling you right now they know the wall will work to a good extent and thats why they oppose it.

We all know why they want them here and for what reasons. A wall will curb those imported future voters.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
So the future for American people is to be walled in ,OK and a task force operating within the country trying to weed out illegals...

Will freedom taste a little bitter as you hand over your papers showing you're a legitimate citizen, will it be like the TSA but out in the streets ...looks and sounds like hell to me...


That's what would happen if there was no wall.



It's not happening now though is it, my guess is soon as the wall is built it will, how else will government justify the expenditure? You know all that money spent on the wall and the illegals are still getting in, this is slippery slope territory...


On the other side of that proverbial wall is the third world. These are essentially narco states, full of corruption, drugs and violence. If you import all that you'll find a world much worse than the TSA.



I think you will find much of that is also going on within the U.S as it is.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:14 PM
link   
Texas Libertarian Ron Paul: We don't need Trump's border wall to stop illegal immigration


Meantime, Ron Paul said the partial government shutdown is not too significant "in the grand scheme of things" just "another thing that can stir up trouble and people react to it.

Well, what do you know, it's exactly what's happening.

However, if these pandering fits continue to happen from partisan sides: In the scheme of things if food benefits are cut to the needy; homeless, veterans with disability, elderly that need help, disabled, needy families, people who work but need FS assistance, etc., and that the food banks are already strapped as it is, then the trouble becomes a civil issue.


Instead, the Trump administration should remove incentives for coming to America, said Paul, who also served 12 terms as a U.S. congressman from Texas, a state that shares 1,254 miles of a common border with Mexico.

Source
I dunno, ya maybe he know know a bit about what he's talking about?
Remove intensives and give jobs back to Americans instead of having them(employers and people needing services) rely on cheap labor due to the coming recession--as mentioned by Ron Paul.


"I don't like walls," Paul added. "I don't want to wall people in and wall people out."

Good point there. I'm on the fence with the wall. But hey, might as well build a wall prison to...keep us all in the US.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
So the future for American people is to be walled in ,OK and a task force operating within the country trying to weed out illegals...

Will freedom taste a little bitter as you hand over your papers showing you're a legitimate citizen, will it be like the TSA but out in the streets ...looks and sounds like hell to me...


That's what would happen if there was no wall.



It's not happening now though is it, my guess is soon as the wall is built it will, how else will government justify the expenditure? You know all that money spent on the wall and the illegals are still getting in, this is slippery slope territory...


On the other side of that proverbial wall is the third world. These are essentially narco states, full of corruption, drugs and violence. If you import all that you'll find a world much worse than the TSA.



I think you will find much of that is also going on within the U.S as it is.


Sure it is. So why import more?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: ker2010
These people arent that dense. Im telling you right now they know the wall will work to a good extent and thats why they oppose it.

We all know why they want them here and for what reasons. A wall will curb those imported future voters.



No we're so dense we think there are more cost effective ways of dealing with this crisis..



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
So the future for American people is to be walled in ,OK and a task force operating within the country trying to weed out illegals...

Will freedom taste a little bitter as you hand over your papers showing you're a legitimate citizen, will it be like the TSA but out in the streets ...looks and sounds like hell to me...


That's what would happen if there was no wall.



It's not happening now though is it, my guess is soon as the wall is built it will, how else will government justify the expenditure? You know all that money spent on the wall and the illegals are still getting in, this is slippery slope territory...


On the other side of that proverbial wall is the third world. These are essentially narco states, full of corruption, drugs and violence. If you import all that you'll find a world much worse than the TSA.



I think you will find much of that is also going on within the U.S as it is.


Sure it is. So why import more?




Nobody wants to import more that's ridiculous.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: Propagandalf

Sure...walls work wonders.

Solar powered drug tunnel...

Secret Tunnels...

smuggling tunnel


secure the border with Egypt.

North America
US–Canada
In early 2005, a group of Canadian drug smugglers took up the idea, and constructed a tunnel between a greenhouse in Langley, British Columbia and the basement of a house in Lynden, Washington, which lay across the ditch marking the Canada–US border (the house on the Langley side was on 0 Avenue ("Zero Avenue"), which runs parallel to the border and is the baseline of Langley's avenue-numbering system). They bought the two properties and began construction work. Authorities were alerted when a neighbor noticed the large-scale construction work being undertaken in the greenhouse. Inspection revealed that tons of construction material were entering, and piles of earth were coming out.

It became known within a short time, by both American and Canadian border authorities, that a tunnel was being built. Video and audio devices were installed secretly by United States customs officials both at the termini and in the tunnel itself. On July 14, the tunnel having been completed, the first packs of marijuana began going through. Officials raided the home soon afterward and arrested the three men, who then appeared before court in Seattle.[4] The tunnel was sealed and the roads above it were rebuilt, but the US house where the tunnel exited still exists.[5]

US–Mexico
As of September 30, 2015, 183 illicit cross-border tunnels have been discovered in the United States since Fiscal Year 1990.[6]

On January 25, 2006, a tunnel was found on the US-Mexico border by a joint US Drug Enforcement Administration, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and US Border Patrol task force. The 2,400-foot (730 m) long tunnel runs from a warehouse near the Tijuana airport to a warehouse in San Diego. When discovered, it was devoid of people, but it did contain 2 short tons (1,800 kg) of marijuana. It was 5 feet (1.5 m) high and up to 90 feet (27 m) deep. The floor was made of cement, and the walls were exposed clay, with lights lining one side, a ventilation system to keep fresh air circulating, and a water drainage system to remove infiltrating ground water. Authorities said it was unclear how long the tunnel had been in operation.


So how deep are these "walls" supposed to go?

A wall is a symbol of comfort to you. It's okay. Not just you, but many others find the symbol ingratiating and the idea that there's a wall lets you sleep comfortably at night. Walls are just a symbol. They won't stop or even stem the tide of drugs, but they may slow illegal immigrants a little bit. Just a little.


You guys are either being purposely stupid or you really don't understand basic statistics and nothing works 100% of the time.

My god... someone hit the lottery. The odds are like 1 out of gazillion to be a winner. Therefore, if you want to be a millionaire, play the lottery! This is how stupid you sound....

Yes, somebody somewhere might build a tunnel. They might figure out a ladder system. Hell, they may figure out how to fly themselves over on a drone. However, THESE ARE EXCEPTIONS. The vast majority as in like 99% cannot and will not take those steps to cross a barrier.

Good grief, you people cannot possibly be this dense....


That would be more convincing if the OP wasn't trying to convince people walls do work based on anecdotes.

I am intrigued however intrigued by your 99% claim. Do you have a source for that?


Why do prisons have walls if they don't work? Please walk us through your logic step by step...

Do prison walls stop 100% of escape attempts? No they do not... however, the vast majority don't attempt...

So are you really arguing that just because there could be a breach that a wall is not effective in keeping out the vast majority?


Prisons also have roofs, cells and are designed to keep people in.

The question isn't would a wall have any impact , but would it be the most cost effective solution?

Large scale infrastructure projects normally have extensive cost benefit analysis. Do such studies exist for the proposed wall?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ker2010
These people arent that dense. Im telling you right now they know the wall will work to a good extent and thats why they oppose it.

We all know why they want them here and for what reasons. A wall will curb those imported future voters.



No we're so dense we think there are more cost effective ways of dealing with this crisis..



30 years and they haven't been implemented yet.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: Propagandalf
a reply to: ScepticScot




That would be more convincing if the OP wasn't trying to convince people walls do work based on anecdotes.

I am intrigued however intrigued by your 99% claim. Do you have a source for that?


On common sense, actually. The opposite of a wall is no wall. Which works more at keeping people out, a wall or no wall?


If the wall was cost free that might be a valid point.

Is there any study into if a wall is the most effective way of spending billions (21?) on reducing illegal immigration.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:21 PM
link   
If there is a will, there is a way.
A wall will never stop only deter.

Trump just wants to waste money on the wall to satisfy his dwindling base.
It's really just a monument for willful ignorance. (stupidity)



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:21 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Propagandalf
a reply to: ScepticScot




That would be more convincing if the OP wasn't trying to convince people walls do work based on anecdotes.

I am intrigued however intrigued by your 99% claim. Do you have a source for that?


On common sense, actually. The opposite of a wall is no wall. Which works more at keeping people out, a wall or no wall?


If the wall was cost free that might be a valid point.

Is there any study into if a wall is the most effective way of spending billions (21?) on reducing illegal immigration.


A study? There is no wall. How can such a thing be studied if there is no such thing?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein
If there is a will, there is a way.
A wall will never stop only deter.

Trump just wants to waste money on the wall to satisfy his dwindling base.
It's really just a monument for willful ignorance. (stupidity)


Fabricated nonsense.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:23 PM
link   
a reply to: Propagandalf

Fair enough, we could call this wall a monument for fabricated nonsense.
Did not mean to insult the stupid.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 04:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Propagandalf
a reply to: ScepticScot




That would be more convincing if the OP wasn't trying to convince people walls do work based on anecdotes.

I am intrigued however intrigued by your 99% claim. Do you have a source for that?


On common sense, actually. The opposite of a wall is no wall. Which works more at keeping people out, a wall or no wall?


If the wall was cost free that might be a valid point.

Is there any study into if a wall is the most effective way of spending billions (21?) on reducing illegal immigration.


A study? There is no wall. How can such a thing be studied if there is no such thing?


Is it normal practise in the US to spend billions on a project without a cost benefit analysis?




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