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The "Walls Don't Work" Argument is the Stupidest One Yet.

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posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: Propagandalf

Sure...walls work wonders.

Solar powered drug tunnel...

Secret Tunnels...

smuggling tunnel


secure the border with Egypt.

North America
US–Canada
In early 2005, a group of Canadian drug smugglers took up the idea, and constructed a tunnel between a greenhouse in Langley, British Columbia and the basement of a house in Lynden, Washington, which lay across the ditch marking the Canada–US border (the house on the Langley side was on 0 Avenue ("Zero Avenue"), which runs parallel to the border and is the baseline of Langley's avenue-numbering system). They bought the two properties and began construction work. Authorities were alerted when a neighbor noticed the large-scale construction work being undertaken in the greenhouse. Inspection revealed that tons of construction material were entering, and piles of earth were coming out.

It became known within a short time, by both American and Canadian border authorities, that a tunnel was being built. Video and audio devices were installed secretly by United States customs officials both at the termini and in the tunnel itself. On July 14, the tunnel having been completed, the first packs of marijuana began going through. Officials raided the home soon afterward and arrested the three men, who then appeared before court in Seattle.[4] The tunnel was sealed and the roads above it were rebuilt, but the US house where the tunnel exited still exists.[5]

US–Mexico
As of September 30, 2015, 183 illicit cross-border tunnels have been discovered in the United States since Fiscal Year 1990.[6]

On January 25, 2006, a tunnel was found on the US-Mexico border by a joint US Drug Enforcement Administration, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and US Border Patrol task force. The 2,400-foot (730 m) long tunnel runs from a warehouse near the Tijuana airport to a warehouse in San Diego. When discovered, it was devoid of people, but it did contain 2 short tons (1,800 kg) of marijuana. It was 5 feet (1.5 m) high and up to 90 feet (27 m) deep. The floor was made of cement, and the walls were exposed clay, with lights lining one side, a ventilation system to keep fresh air circulating, and a water drainage system to remove infiltrating ground water. Authorities said it was unclear how long the tunnel had been in operation.


So how deep are these "walls" supposed to go?

A wall is a symbol of comfort to you. It's okay. Not just you, but many others find the symbol ingratiating and the idea that there's a wall lets you sleep comfortably at night. Walls are just a symbol. They won't stop or even stem the tide of drugs, but they may slow illegal immigrants a little bit. Just a little.




posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: kelbtalfenek

The opposite of the wall is no wall. No wall does't work at all. You don't need a tunnel to get beneath no wall. You don't need a ladder to climb no wall.

A wall scares you. That's okay.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: kelbtalfenek




So how deep are these "walls" supposed to go?


The RFP (request for proposal) I found from DHS said 6 ft deep.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:35 PM
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originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: Propagandalf

Sure...walls work wonders.

Solar powered drug tunnel...

Secret Tunnels...

smuggling tunnel


secure the border with Egypt.

North America
US–Canada
In early 2005, a group of Canadian drug smugglers took up the idea, and constructed a tunnel between a greenhouse in Langley, British Columbia and the basement of a house in Lynden, Washington, which lay across the ditch marking the Canada–US border (the house on the Langley side was on 0 Avenue ("Zero Avenue"), which runs parallel to the border and is the baseline of Langley's avenue-numbering system). They bought the two properties and began construction work. Authorities were alerted when a neighbor noticed the large-scale construction work being undertaken in the greenhouse. Inspection revealed that tons of construction material were entering, and piles of earth were coming out.

It became known within a short time, by both American and Canadian border authorities, that a tunnel was being built. Video and audio devices were installed secretly by United States customs officials both at the termini and in the tunnel itself. On July 14, the tunnel having been completed, the first packs of marijuana began going through. Officials raided the home soon afterward and arrested the three men, who then appeared before court in Seattle.[4] The tunnel was sealed and the roads above it were rebuilt, but the US house where the tunnel exited still exists.[5]

US–Mexico
As of September 30, 2015, 183 illicit cross-border tunnels have been discovered in the United States since Fiscal Year 1990.[6]

On January 25, 2006, a tunnel was found on the US-Mexico border by a joint US Drug Enforcement Administration, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and US Border Patrol task force. The 2,400-foot (730 m) long tunnel runs from a warehouse near the Tijuana airport to a warehouse in San Diego. When discovered, it was devoid of people, but it did contain 2 short tons (1,800 kg) of marijuana. It was 5 feet (1.5 m) high and up to 90 feet (27 m) deep. The floor was made of cement, and the walls were exposed clay, with lights lining one side, a ventilation system to keep fresh air circulating, and a water drainage system to remove infiltrating ground water. Authorities said it was unclear how long the tunnel had been in operation.


So how deep are these "walls" supposed to go?

A wall is a symbol of comfort to you. It's okay. Not just you, but many others find the symbol ingratiating and the idea that there's a wall lets you sleep comfortably at night. Walls are just a symbol. They won't stop or even stem the tide of drugs, but they may slow illegal immigrants a little bit. Just a little.


You guys are either being purposely stupid or you really don't understand basic statistics and nothing works 100% of the time.

My god... someone hit the lottery. The odds are like 1 out of gazillion to be a winner. Therefore, if you want to be a millionaire, play the lottery! This is how stupid you sound....

Yes, somebody somewhere might build a tunnel. They might figure out a ladder system. Hell, they may figure out how to fly themselves over on a drone. However, THESE ARE EXCEPTIONS. The vast majority as in like 99% cannot and will not take those steps to cross a barrier.

Good grief, you people cannot possibly be this dense....



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:39 PM
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So the future for American people is to be walled in ,OK and a task force operating within the country trying to weed out illegals...

Will freedom taste a little bitter as you hand over your papers showing you're a legitimate citizen, will it be like the TSA but out in the streets ...looks and sounds like hell to me...
edit on 10-1-2019 by hopenotfeariswhatweneed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
So the future for American people is to be walled in ,OK and a task force operating within the country trying to weed out illegals...

Will freedom taste a little bitter as you hand over your papers showing you're a legitimate citizen, will it be like the TSA but out in the streets ...looks and sounds like hell to me...


That's what would happen if there was no wall.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Tell me is it easier to catch people making noise and using equipment and time to dig a tunnel under a wall or no wall and they just run over in seconds?

House doors that are not modified/reinforced are easily kicked in, does that mean I leave my door wide open? Or do I want it closed and locked so those few seconds of loud noise of someone breaking in gives me time to grab my firearm?

Second technology like drones are not adequate, they fly over take pictures but have no way of stopping the crossing.


edit on 10-1-2019 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: dug88
How would a wall have stopped these 600,000 people from being in america illegally in 2017?


The wall is being proposed along the US/Mexico border, not at legal points of entry.


Yeah...but the wall is proposed as a solution to illegal immigration. I'm guessing less than 600,000 people crossed that border in the same time period. I just think the wall is probably the least effective solution to the problem rather than that it won't work. It's a bunch of money to stop a very small percentage of illegal immigration when less money could be spent on more effective measures.


Obviously the wall is concerned with those who refuse to enter through legal points of entry along the southern border. I don't think anyone implied it is going to stop those who overstay their welcome.


Yeah....that's worth $23 billion. The arguments I see is that...illegal immigration takes jobs, it allows criminals into the country and generally lowers the quality of life for people in said country. Personally...if my government were going to spend $23 billion to tackle such a problem, I would prefer something that actually decreases the numbers of illegal immigrants within the country and deals with with mass corruption allowing them to stay rather than these mystery people running across open desert into america.

But I guess it appeals more to fearful people to have a giant wall proposed than something like...we will spend money enforcing deportations and cracking down on businesses hiring and aiding illegal immigrants in the country or implementing proper border checks or ya know useful solutions that will actually decrease the number of illegal immigrants actually currently detrimenting your country.


It's a one time cost, excluding maintenance. In 2019 they are spending about the same on general border security. That's 22 percent higher than 2017. That number keeps climbing every year.

You'd rather people enter the country illegally without papers, without a security check, from the third-world, bringing in anything they want, than someone who enters legally but overstays their welcome?


No...I think whatever is guaranteed to stop and deal with the largest amount of people for the least amount of money is ideal.


Nothing works better and is more cost-effective than a massive barrier.


Alright well...tell ya what. In 5 years or so, if the wall goes up, we can come back to this and if illegal immigration into america has dropped significantly or noticeably after the wall and the cost of maintenance continues to be viable. I'll admit I was wrong and walls work well. They haven't really worked all that well historically though.


Are you kidding?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: Propagandalf




That's what would happen if there was no wall.


Hold on - do we currently have a wall or don't we?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: dug88
How would a wall have stopped these 600,000 people from being in america illegally in 2017?


The wall is being proposed along the US/Mexico border, not at legal points of entry.


Yeah...but the wall is proposed as a solution to illegal immigration. I'm guessing less than 600,000 people crossed that border in the same time period. I just think the wall is probably the least effective solution to the problem rather than that it won't work. It's a bunch of money to stop a very small percentage of illegal immigration when less money could be spent on more effective measures.


Obviously the wall is concerned with those who refuse to enter through legal points of entry along the southern border. I don't think anyone implied it is going to stop those who overstay their welcome.


Yeah....that's worth $23 billion. The arguments I see is that...illegal immigration takes jobs, it allows criminals into the country and generally lowers the quality of life for people in said country. Personally...if my government were going to spend $23 billion to tackle such a problem, I would prefer something that actually decreases the numbers of illegal immigrants within the country and deals with with mass corruption allowing them to stay rather than these mystery people running across open desert into america.

But I guess it appeals more to fearful people to have a giant wall proposed than something like...we will spend money enforcing deportations and cracking down on businesses hiring and aiding illegal immigrants in the country or implementing proper border checks or ya know useful solutions that will actually decrease the number of illegal immigrants actually currently detrimenting your country.


It's a one time cost, excluding maintenance. In 2019 they are spending about the same on general border security. That's 22 percent higher than 2017. That number keeps climbing every year.

You'd rather people enter the country illegally without papers, without a security check, from the third-world, bringing in anything they want, than someone who enters legally but overstays their welcome?


That depends, which one is more willing to vote Democrat? Answer that and you'll have your answer.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Apparently they do use ladders quite often. But they do not realize that there is no ladder on the other side.


“The smugglers set up a ladder for me on the Mexican side, they make you go up and then you have to find a way to get down,” a woman at the shelter said. “I couldn’t figure it out, my feet were sliding down the tubes, I got stuck and then fell.”

The woman, from Oaxaca Mexico, spent 20 days at the shelter recovering from fractures to her legs and spine. She did not want to be identified out of fear for her life because of connections between smugglers and drug cartels.


www.azpm.org...



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: dug88

All right, if barriers don't work. Why don't we have similar floods of people just pouring over the east and west coast? I mean, those big oceans must not be at all effective in keeping people out. Anyone can just come right in because barriers don't work, right, including natural ones?

But maybe, those oceans works quite well as natural barriers concentrating any illegal entry to the actual ports where people are smuggled in via shipping. Sure, some still get brought in, but nowhere near like the southern border where you just walk right over all along its length.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:48 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
I don't think anyone's saying walls don't work, at least no the rational people. I don't think anyone's saying that we don't need border security, at least not the rational people.

A wall by itself though is nothing. If you go to the most secure borders in the world, they are way more than walls...In a lot of cases it's more about towers, wire, fencing, other types of obstacles, drones etc.

We get too caught up in "we need a wall" and I get it, but. If you get this wall, then how much more money does it take for all the stuff that makes the wall/border actually secure. You're too focused on the wall.

And if you're talking about no borders, open borders, that's fine, but when you're talking about Mexico, you need to have some programs in place that beef up Mexican security/economy. How much would that cost?

Things to consider.

And to lighten the mood, I wish I knew how to imbed. There's a great Trump video going around from the mid 2000s with him talking about obstacles and saying. If you see concret wall in front of you go over, through or around it. But get to the other side. LOL I love it!

And keep in mind that it's a very secure border, which is what we want, but there is no wall running all the way across Korea.


There will be increased Border Agents along with the wall.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
a reply to: Propagandalf




That's what would happen if there was no wall.


Hold on - do we currently have a wall or don't we?


We don't. There are various sporadic pieces of infrastructure, ie barriers, fences, etc. but no continuous wall.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:51 PM
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Its not about if it works its how well it works and yes we need it
Ive lived in gang controled neighborhoods



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:55 PM
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Walls work or the Democrats wouldn't be so dead set against it now.
Of course they change direction faster than a windsock so who knows about tomorrow.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: ker2010
Jim Acoustic just proved otherwise lol


www.foxnews.com...



LOLOLOL, leave it to CNN. They'll find a way to say that wall isn't needed.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:58 PM
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originally posted by: iplay1up2
a reply to: amazing

Border security for sure. Including more outposts along the border. With added high tech surveillance and such. So we can detain them. Also we should make the punishment greater, for anyone found crossing in after a certain date. So they get fair warning, no more.


Asylum seekers are different, IF THEY ARE NOT ABUSING OUR SYSTEM, AND DESERVE ASYLUM.


That would cost more than a wall. So again, why is a wall an issue?



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated



Good grief, you people cannot possibly be this dense....


Sadly, some people can be and demonstrate it here.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 03:58 PM
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originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
So the future for American people is to be walled in ,OK and a task force operating within the country trying to weed out illegals...

Will freedom taste a little bitter as you hand over your papers showing you're a legitimate citizen, will it be like the TSA but out in the streets ...looks and sounds like hell to me...


That's what would happen if there was no wall.



It's not happening now though is it, my guess is soon as the wall is built it will, how else will government justify the expenditure? You know all that money spent on the wall and the illegals are still getting in, this is slippery slope territory...




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