It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The "Walls Don't Work" Argument is the Stupidest One Yet.

page: 11
51
<< 8  9  10   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 15 2019 @ 04:33 PM
link   
a reply to: PublicOpinion

LMAO you can't be serious.




posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 10:04 AM
link   
a reply to: Dfairlite

Ask any historian with a clue in case of doubt. You think I just hacked history.com to make you brick wallers look like morons or what? How's your infrastructure doing btw?



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 10:04 AM
link   
doublette
edit on 16-1-2019 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 10:17 AM
link   
a reply to: PublicOpinion

No, I see no parallels. I see reaching and grasping for straws.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 10:55 AM
link   
a reply to: Propagandalf

Maybe change your glasses? It was your idea to spin this wall of a thread regardless of the contradicting historical context, wasn't it?



I see reaching and grasping for straws.


Oh, so witty! It's the best tactic to shy away from factual debates once someone calls out your bollocks, right? You're pretty good with sophistry, I'll give you that.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 11:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Propagandalf

Maybe change your glasses? It was your idea to spin this wall of a thread regardless of the contradicting historical context, wasn't it?



I see reaching and grasping for straws.


Oh, so witty! It's the best tactic to shy away from factual debates once someone calls out your bollocks, right? You're pretty good with sophistry, I'll give you that.


I wasn’t aware that making specious arguments was “factual debate”. I guess you learn something new every day.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 12:18 PM
link   
a reply to: Propagandalf

No worries, Hadrian! You'd have to realize your mistakes before you could learn a thing, and something tells me you would rather stick to your bricks.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 12:21 PM
link   

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Propagandalf

No worries, Hadrian! You'd have to realize your mistakes before you could learn a thing, and something tells me you would rather stick to your bricks.


Plucking quotes from irrelevant books and making historical comparisons between disparate empires and ages seems to me the mistake.



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 01:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Propagandalf

That or your historical introduction wasn't really worth anyone's time.

It shouldn't be so hard to find at least one big border wall project that actually worked. But even the wall in East Germany was a big fcking mistake, which led directly to the Perestroika and ultimately to the fall of the UdSSR.

Name one border wall that worked out like intended, just one?



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 02:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Propagandalf

That or your historical introduction wasn't really worth anyone's time.

It shouldn't be so hard to find at least one big border wall project that actually worked. But even the wall in East Germany was a big fcking mistake, which led directly to the Perestroika and ultimately to the fall of the UdSSR.

Name one border wall that worked out like intended, just one?


You'd compare a wall designed to keep people from escaping to a wall designed to keep people from breaking in.


The Isreali/West Bank Barrier.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Moroccan Western Sahara Wall
en.wikipedia.org...

The Syria-Turkey Barrier
en.wikipedia.org...

The Indian Line of Control Fencing
en.wikipedia.org...

The Greek "Evros Fence"
greece.greekreporter.com...

Which one of these don't work?
edit on 16-1-2019 by Propagandalf because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2019 @ 08:55 PM
link   
a reply to: Propagandalf




The Isreali/West Bank Barrier.


...is considered to be part of a failed apartheid policy. It's counterproductive to the peace process, and other barriers have been breached already. I'm not sure your example hasn't met the same fate already.
Israel–Gaza_barrier



The Moroccan Western Sahara Wall



The Western Sahara Berm, also known as the Moroccan Wall, is an approximately 2,700 km-long defensive structure consisting primarily of sand running through Western Sahara and the southeastern portion of Morocco. It acts as a separation barrier between the Moroccan-controlled areas and the Polisario-controlled section of the territory (the SADR). According to maps from MINURSO[62] or the UNHCR,[63] part of the wall extends several kilometers into internationally recognized Mauritanian territory. According to Pascal Bongard, program director at Geneva Call, between five and ten million land mines have been laid in the areas around the wall.[64]

en.wikipedia.org...

Bad example, you wanna add 5 to 10 million landmines and a Sahara to your wall as well?



The Syria-Turkey Barrier


Smuggling from Syria to Turkey ceased to exist and refugees didn't change their routes? That's a good one! What a waste of good tax Euros... if they only knew that Turkey has a very long shoreline, and that it shares the Mediterranean with Syria...



The Indian Line of Control Fencing



The barrier itself consists of double-row of fencing and concertina wire eight to twelve feet (2.4–3.7 m) in height, and is electrified and connected to a network of motion sensors, thermal imaging devices, lighting systems and alarms. They act as "fast alert signals" to the Indian troops who can be alerted and ambush the infiltrators trying to sneak in. The small stretch of land between the rows of fencing is mined with thousands of landmines

Line_of_Control

Only thousands of landmines this time and no Sahara? Aha. Why so peaceful now?



The Greek "Evros Fence"



The coveted fence is expected to be 10.3 kilometers long, but the river of Evros will still be the biggest crossing point of the illegal immigrants. One month ago, Christos Papoutsis (former Minister for Citizen Protection) inaugurated the 3.2 million Euro fence, but the Greek government hasn’t yet proceeded with the construction. However the Ministry has left a… model fence to “guard” the Greek borders.

evros-the-greek-borders-are-protected- by-a-single-model-fence

We should ask a fingernail model to play the fence, that would be equally funny but far less expensive. You really know how to make me laugh my ass of, don't you?



edit on 16-1-2019 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-1-2019 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2019 @ 08:53 PM
link   
a reply to: PublicOpinion
Oh, you are serious. Here, let me help you with your reading comprehension. The building of the roman wall was significant because it meant the outside forces trying to destroy the roman empire were so vast and so devoted it was all but impossible to keep them at bay.

Nothing in that history article even insinuates walls don't work. The density of osmium has a new challenger it seems...



posted on Jan, 21 2019 @ 08:55 PM
link   
a reply to: PublicOpinion

If the east german wall didn't work, why did they insist on removing it?



posted on Jan, 21 2019 @ 08:59 PM
link   
a reply to: PublicOpinion



...is considered to be part of a failed apartheid policy. It's counterproductive to the peace process, and other barriers have been breached already. I'm not sure your example hasn't met the same fate already.


You realize this doesn't say walls don't work, right? Of course you don't, what was I thinking. Here, maybe this will help.


But I'm curious about some of your other rebuttals, why do you think they built a wall to go with the land mines, I mean afterall, the land mines were all that were needed, correct?



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 12:35 PM
link   
a reply to: Dfairlite




The building of the roman wall was significant


...said Alaric while passing them.



Nothing in that history article even insinuates walls don't work.


Why did they even mention infrastructure then, any educated guess? And you think I'm dense?



You sure as hell have some walls up. Fascinating! I'm no going to explain the DDR tangent further, you're preoccupied with Roman slaves hurling mortar and bricks right now.




posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 09:40 PM
link   
a reply to: PublicOpinion



Why did they even mention infrastructure then, any educated guess?


I explained that, not an educated guess. Here's what I told you:



The building of the roman wall was significant because it meant the outside forces trying to destroy the roman empire were so vast and so devoted it was all but impossible to keep them at bay.


But I'll expand on that for you. The fact that they needed infrastructure to keep their enemies out underscores how big the problem was. The roman wall referenced was built in 122 AD. Rome didn't fall for another 350+ years. It didn't even begin to fall for 280 years after the construction of Emperor Hadrian's wall. This idea that the roman wall didn't work is just moronic. The beginning of the fall was areas that were neglected (like vast swathes of our southern border).

To contrast though, the purpose of our wall is not to keep our enemies out (while it will also help serve that function, there are now many more ways to bypass walls than there were in roman times) but to funnel those who want to enter to the appropriate checkpoints for vetting. Do tell, if you could go to the airport and bypass TSA by simply walking around a different corner, would you voluntarily go through TSA? Assume that the only punishment for bypassing TSA was being sent back to the main lobby where they will then leave you unattended to get back to your travels.

edit on 22-1-2019 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-1-2019 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2019 @ 10:39 PM
link   
a reply to: Propagandalf

I am getting very tired of the "people will still find a way in" argument. If they have to find a way in its because the wall stopped them from entering the easy way.

The wall is not meant to be the alpha and omega of border security. It is one piece of a more complex approach. By building the wall you force illegals to find another way in. The increased traffic flow to the new area makes them easier to detect. Once we see where the second choice is we strengthen our security there too. All we have to do is pay attention and let the illegals lead us to each and every method of entry they have. It only makes sense to start with the biggest one first and work your way down.

Nothing bigger than a jackrabbit can move anywhere near the borders of Area 51 without being seen, heard, and seismographed. If we can do that, we can spot humans crossing a border too. If government can do so much to protect their secrets I think they could do at least as much to protect the country itself.



posted on Jan, 23 2019 @ 02:00 AM
link   
people who say " barriers dont work " - should study the theory of " survivorship bias " its not a direct link - but it does have application to the " problem " of a barrier - and weather it works or not



posted on Jan, 23 2019 @ 10:29 AM
link   
a reply to: Dfairlite


A limes was a border fortification system of the Roman Empire. The Latin noun limes had a number of different meanings: a path or balk marking off the boundaries of fields; a boundary line or marker; any road or path; any channel, such as a stream channel; or any distinction or difference between two things. Hence it was utilized by Latin writers to denote marked or fortified frontiers. The name given to proper Walls was vallum, which might have represented a border.

en.wikipedia.org...

Limes, not vallum. Technically, even 'your' historical examples are not exactly border walls, and hey were in no way close to a TSA check, either. It's a system of walls and fortresses, which was supposed to react on attacks rather then preventing them completely (which would be the really moronic notion here).



This idea that the roman wall didn't work is just moronic.


In short term, said Limes reduced the cost compared to a big army at the border. Sure. That worked fine for what, 40 years until the first pieces fell? There was a shortage of troops already, but Hadrian had plans for expansions regardless.


Faced with a shortage of legionary recruits from Italy and other Romanised provinces, Hadrian systematised the use of less costly numeri – ethnic non-citizen troops with special weapons, such as Eastern mounted archers – in low-intensity, mobile defensive tasks such as dealing with border infiltrators and skirmishers.[192][193] Hadrian is also credited with introducing units of heavy cavalry (cataphracts) into the Roman army.[194] Fronto later blamed Hadrian for declining standards in the Roman army of his own time.

en.wikipedia.org...

Declining recruits, declining standards, declining infrastructure. You see where this is going?



posted on Jan, 23 2019 @ 10:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: ketsuko
Jim Acosta discovers a wall keeps illegal crossers out.

Look. He's at an area with a wall, and there is no border crisis happening there. It's almost as if people are going to other sections where the wall is not ...


I saw that earlier and it does deserve it's own thread.

Jim Accoster showing the wall works...


Where are the pictures of where there is no wall and a border crisis exists?



new topics

top topics



 
51
<< 8  9  10   >>

log in

join