Calling All Feminists- Interested In Your Position Regarding Military Conscription

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

well I just think that no nation should be able to conscript , why should citizens not only work to support a system that doesnt support them but also have to fight to secure power and wealth for a small percentage of that population
that abuses us and indoctrinates and fills with propaganda , makes us work and work and pay taxes
only to die for some dead mans ideology!

Naw

i was actually involved in an argument about this very subject the other day. pretty much without exception those who are feminists were completely against women being eligible for the draft. and the best real argument they could come up with was no one should be drafted. other than that i saw a lot of well women are not built the same as a man, and therefore would not be good soldiers against men. that they would be a liability (so much for women being equal eh). or things like women might be raped by the enemy, or by their fellow male soldiers. or women would suffer sever PSD, mental trauma and the like, because of forcing them to do something so contrary to a female's nature. that women would be a problem because of sex, and men possibly paying too much attention to women, and distracting them from the job at hand. or even killing themselves trying to protect the women. (guess i should also say that i had seen many of these same women argue that having gays in the army would NOT cause these types of problems). and my favorite out of the mouths of the very feminists who normally argue that a woman's place is not in the home, and not taking care of children. that men should be just as responsible for, and just as capable in doing those things. were in this case citing that women are needed at home to keep things going, and they need to raise the children. because men are not really capable of that. seriously their excuses started sounding more and more like anti-feminists, and anti male/female equality when it came to this question. it really showed their hypocrisy. "women are equal in ALL things, UNLESS they don't want to do it", in which cases they claim men and women are not equal, and not the same.

now mind you there is truth that men and women are indeed not the same. they both have different strengths and weaknesses. yet after being involved in different combat sports, i can tell you most woman are just as capable as men on the battlefield. and in all honesty when you really can't tell what sex you are fighting against due to things like armor, masks, and helmet. you really can not tell a male from a female. and i have seen many times where a female has quite literally stomped all over their male counterparts in those situations where you really can not see who is who, or what. yes there are differences between the sexes. but i have even seen where it is quite likely that women might be far superior to men in jobs such as fighter pilots as well as other combat roles, due to those differences.

my personal opinion is that in a case of a draft being needed women should be 50% of those selected to serve. and serve in combat roles just like any male would be asked to do.

a reply to: generik

Women should have the option of combat roles but not all women are suited for that. Some women are good at some combat jobs but not others. The military has statistics on this and knows where they work out and where they don't.

It should be based upon capabilities, not politics.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: generik

Women should have the option of combat roles but not all women are suited for that. Some women are good at some combat jobs but not others. The military has statistics on this and knows where they work out and where they don't.

It should be based upon capabilities, not politics.

Absolutely...set the standards required for the job, and then let applicants of all stripes compete for the position.

As soon as identity politics enters the picture in the selection process, the quality of people employed in any given employment (or other) situation will automatically decline. This degrades the given organization itself and society overall.

Equality of opportunity should not be confused with equality of outcome. Sadly (for me) I will never be an NHL superstar, or an Olympic sprinter...but that's only because my physical makeup could never...no matter how much I tried...allow me to rise to the minimum performance levels required.

a reply to: mobiusmale

When you say identity politics, I can't tell if you are referring to nepotism or affirmative action policies. Either way, they are both bad considering that military service can be a life or death job.

a reply to: Lumenari

Who in their right mind would set a woman's football team against a men's football team?

I once saw a tug-of-war between men from a Rainbow Circle Camp and local men mostly from a rugby team. Obviously the rugby team won. Then the local women were then set against the Rainbow women. Obviously the Rainbow women won, the local women being mostly giggly and less fit. Then it was the Rainbow women against the rugby team. The women won. There were cries of 'Cheat! Cheat!', people had been crowding round and running in grabbing at the rope. So they had a rematch. The women won again. It was getting close to a riot when they had the third rematch. This time the Rainbow women pulled the rugby team off their feet. The rugby guys looked shocked and stunned, the Rainbow women were elated. I was the only person watching from a distance and I saw that the barefoot Rainbow women were at a steeper angle, and their teamwork was more co-ordinated than the rugby team.

Back at the camp that night the women got drunk and went marauding round the camp singing bawdy songs and acting in an intimidating manner. Totally against their usual behaviour.

originally posted by: toms54
Women should have the option of combat roles but not all women are suited for that. Some women are good at some combat jobs but not others.

This is the same with men. The selection process weeds out those men who are not fit to be in the armed services - both physically or mentally. The same is true for women.

Certainly, those roles which require physicality weed out a great number of males as being unsuitable, so as long as the test is true for females the end product should be a competent soldier capable of delivering the goods.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: mobiusmale

When you say identity politics, I can't tell if you are referring to nepotism or affirmative action policies. Either way, they are both bad considering that military service can be a life or death job.

My reference is to policies (or pressure) designed to employ members of identifiable groups (genders, races, etc.) on the basis of their membership in this group - without regard for if they are the "best suited", among applicants, for the assignment/opportunity.

There are endless examples of this kind of self-defeating approach, within Western society over the last few decades....University entry based on skin colour instead of academic achievement, job hirings based on "diversity goals" instead of ability, experience and capability, etc., etc.

We should fight for equality of opportunity based on ability - without discrimination of any kind. Any other approach leads to a downward spiral.

a reply to: paraphi

The selection process weeds out those men who are not fit to be in the armed services . . .

Private Fragger reporting for duty, Sir!

frag /fraɡ/Submit MILITARY SLANG•NORTH AMERICAN verb gerund or present participle: fragging deliberately kill (an unpopular senior officer)

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: eletheia

Women are great in the kitchen, sure. But let's not forget... they can also do laundry.

Women can do anything!!..... IF they WANT to.

I know women plumbers, joiners, and tilers .........

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: eletheia

Women are great in the kitchen, sure. But let's not forget... they can also do laundry.

Women can do anything!!..... IF they WANT to.

I know women plumbers, joiners, and tilers .........

I support the idea, 100 percent, that woman can try to do anything they feel they want to...and let their talents, effort and ability compete equally in a free marketplace and society. Women plumbers, joiners, tilers, absolutely.

But, women by and large cannot do anything just because "they want to"...any more than any given man can achieve anything simply because he wants to.

Everybody has certain built-in personal abilities related to size, strength, agility, intelligence...augmented by education, training, upbringing, work-ethic - and based on available opportunities. And, sorry to say, not everyone - no matter their gender, race, ethnicity, etc. - is going to measure up against all of the other people who "want" the same opportunity.

Nobody should be shut out, or slowed down, from pursuing whatever they want in their lives based on their gender (or any other arbitrary consideration) - including, for example, people with superior capabilities and qualifications who are screened out simply because they are not a member of a group that is currently favoured for "diversity" purposes.

a reply to: mobiusmale



Did you read the "quote I replied to?

Women are great in the kitchen, sure. But let's not forget... they can also do laundry.

I would hesitate to call myself a feminist. I'm definitely for equal rights. However, I don't believe equal rights are attainable in every aspect. In general, men are going to be better at boots on the ground combat. That is not to say no woman could succeed in that role.

I don't like conscription as a whole so I really wouldn't want to add to it. However, I don't see anything 'wrong' with drafting woman if needed. I would definitely want their to be rules such as both a mother and father couldn't get drafted. Which there already are for men so I would assume they'd have rules like that if females were involved.

a reply to: eletheia

I guess I should have written (sarcasm) after that remark.

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: mobiusmale



Did you read the "quote I replied to?

Women are great in the kitchen, sure. But let's not forget... they can also do laundry.

Yes, I did see that post...which I took as being either (a) trolling just to get a rise out of people, or (b) made by a social dinosaur. In either case (for me) not worthy of consideration or a reply.

But I can certainly see why someone would want to challenge it, as you did.

a reply to: mobiusmale

I guess I should have written (sarcasm) after that remark.