Calling All Feminists- Interested In Your Position Regarding Military Conscription

Hi all,

I have been seeking some information on the internet regarding the feminist position on the fact that it is, and has historically only been the male population who have been subject to military conscription however, can not find anything substantial to determine whether there is an overarching view held by feminists on this.

From what I can find only the following countries allow for female conscription; China, Eritrea, Israel, Libya, Malaysia, North Korea, Norway, Peru and Taiwan

Are we to believe that countries such as China ,North Korea and Libya are more progressive than us in the Western World?

If we are to believe Wikipedia;

Both feminists[1][2][3] and opponents of discrimination against men[4][5]:102 have criticized military conscription, or compulsory military service, as sexist. Feminists argue that military conscription is sexist because wars typically serve the interests of the patriarchy, therefore the military is inherently a sexist institution. They say conscription of men normalizes male violence, conscripts are indoctrinated into sexism and violence against women, and military training socializes conscripts into patriarchal gender roles.[6][7] While not all feminists are anti-militarists, opposition to war and militarism has been a strong current within the women's movement. Prominent suffragists like Quaker Alice Paul, and Barbara Deming, a feminist activist and thinker of the 1960s and '70s, were ardent pacifists. Moreover, feminist critique has often regarded the military as a hierarchical, male-dominated institution promoting destructive forms of power." [8] Feminists have been organizers and participants in resistance to conscription

It would seem feminists do not oppose the fact that military conscription is restricted specifically to males (no protests in the street about extending this to include women) but a pacifistic stance against the military in general.

Feminists....over to you, what are your views on this matter? Should countries who require mandatory military service from their citizens expand this to include women in the name of equality?

As an extra tangent of discussion, has the so-called "toxic masculinity" ie; aggressive, dominant behaviour etc. come about as a result of being forced in to committing violence for thousands of years? Has this mentality generationally continued on to those who are deemed "toxic" males.

I make no excuse nor have anytime for less than gentlemanly behaviour from the modern man (except where appropriate) however, is this a thought worth exploring?

Interested as to peoples thoughts.

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

Taylor Swift thinks it should. She denounced a candidate for not supporting legislation that would do nothing for women except things like make them eligible for the draft.

As a man I prefer the status quo.

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

Why not draft women? They don't need to do combat, there are other jobs. Just because they are registered doesn't mean they all get called up.

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

As a female Vet that is into equality between the sexes so I can't be a feminist, some thoughts...

Men are physically stronger than women are.

We are made that way and nothing is going to change that.

And nothing is wrong with that. It's natural.

So men in the "boots on the ground" battlefield make more sense.

Who in their right mind would set a woman's football team against a men's football team?

Secondly, to the article...

Feminists argue that military conscription is sexist because wars typically serve the interests of the patriarchy, therefore the military is inherently a sexist institution.

The stupidest sentence I have probably ever read.

Have they forgotten matriarchal nations?

So if the Queen of England, for instance, wages war and sends her armies out, how exactly is that serving the interest of a patriarchy?

As far as military conscription, if feminists want to be ENTIRELY equal, then of course women should also have to sign up in the USA at 18.

That they are claiming passivism as an excuse is a copout.. they want to have their cake and eat it too.

What I see as equality is equal pay for the same job... not men and women being physically equal.

We're not. I work in the oil field. Trust me, it doesn't work that way.

Third, if we are all to be equal, then possibly the federal laws should be changed so that I, as a female minority, should not get a federal contract over someone who is better qualified than I am but they are a white male?

I have seen no outrage from the feminist movement about the way they are treated under Affirmative Action and the Civil Rights Act.

Which is weird, because we all want to be equal, right?

As far as "toxic masculinity", I always laugh at that term.

Men being men = bad?

I'm Bi.

I like my men to BE men.

Otherwise I would just reclassify as lesbian.

Sorry that I couldn't give you a feminist viewpoint, but feminism as a concept is just another form of political correctness at this point.

It started off with the right idea (voting for women is good, equal pay is good, equal opportunity is good) but then it mushroomed into the left just finding a big victim base to use for political power.

Just my thoughts.

originally posted by: IAMALLYETALLIAM
Hi all,

I have been seeking some information on the internet regarding the feminist position on the fact that it is, and has historically only been the male population who have been subject to military conscription however, can not find anything substantial to determine whether there is an overarching view held by feminists on this.

From what I can find only the following countries allow for female conscription; China, Eritrea, Israel, Libya, Malaysia, North Korea, Norway, Peru and Taiwan

Are we to believe that countries such as China ,North Korea and Libya are more progressive than us in the Western World?

If we are to believe Wikipedia;

Both feminists[1][2][3] and opponents of discrimination against men[4][5]:102 have criticized military conscription, or compulsory military service, as sexist. Feminists argue that military conscription is sexist because wars typically serve the interests of the patriarchy, therefore the military is inherently a sexist institution. They say conscription of men normalizes male violence, conscripts are indoctrinated into sexism and violence against women, and military training socializes conscripts into patriarchal gender roles.[6][7] While not all feminists are anti-militarists, opposition to war and militarism has been a strong current within the women's movement. Prominent suffragists like Quaker Alice Paul, and Barbara Deming, a feminist activist and thinker of the 1960s and '70s, were ardent pacifists. Moreover, feminist critique has often regarded the military as a hierarchical, male-dominated institution promoting destructive forms of power." [8] Feminists have been organizers and participants in resistance to conscription

It would seem feminists do not oppose the fact that military conscription is restricted specifically to males (no protests in the street about extending this to include women) but a pacifistic stance against the military in general.

Feminists....over to you, what are your views on this matter? Should countries who require mandatory military service from their citizens expand this to include women in the name of equality?

As an extra tangent of discussion, has the so-called "toxic masculinity" ie; aggressive, dominant behaviour etc. come about as a result of being forced in to committing violence for thousands of years? Has this mentality generationally continued on to those who are deemed "toxic" males.

I make no excuse nor have anytime for less than gentlemanly behaviour from the modern man (except where appropriate) however, is this a thought worth exploring?

Interested as to peoples thoughts.

Feminist are only so when it suits their needs...

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

As the father of a 16 year old girl I feel my opinion on the matter counts.
I think she should sign up for selective service.
Not because I want her in combat but if we as a society are expected to look at both sexes as equal then both sexes need to have the same responsibilities.

Let's be honest here though, most women would not be able to perform the same as men in the field so they would automatically be exempt from combat.
My 5'6" 140lbs daughter would not be able to carry a 70lbs load like the men do.
But she can drive a truck, run a computer, cook, direct traffic on a flight deck.

How can we pick and choose where we deserve to be equal?

I've never heard of the word Conscription used before. I resist looking it up because I might not like the definition.

Sort of like I would rather be called fat than Obese, Obese sounds yucky. Bacon is so good even though it is mostly fat.

a reply to: rickymouse

What the old expression....

Ignorance is bliss

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: rickymouse

What the old expression....

Ignorance is bliss

Gee, looked it up...Drafted. They had a Draft board, not a conscription board and you signed up to get drafted when I was going to school. Sounds like a lot simpler word to me.

a reply to: rickymouse

I remember selective service.
They got away from the draft word by that time.
Like you said, it sounds better....lol

a reply to: Lumenari

Just a thought I had while reading your well written reply.

as a female minority

"Of the 2010 Census population, 157.0 million were female (50.8 percent) while 151.8 million were male (49.2 percent). "

It would seem that females are actually the majority and not a minority.

Interesting enough

"Between 2000 and 2010, the male population grew at a slightly faster rate (9.9 percent) than the female population (9.5 percent)."

I wonder why that is?

www.google.com...://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi7mc7Gm-LfAhWPMd8KHXA5Du0QFj ABegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw11ZaHiC5nQSvDVUHdPzuAt

a reply to: Bluntone22 As a femals veteran, I have to say that it was the smartest thing i ever did.
and also my daughter left as a directionless teen, and came back from boot camp an adult.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
a reply to: Lumenari

Just a thought I had while reading your well written reply.

as a female minority

"Of the 2010 Census population, 157.0 million were female (50.8 percent) while 151.8 million were male (49.2 percent). "

It would seem that females are actually the majority and not a minority.

Interesting enough

"Between 2000 and 2010, the male population grew at a slightly faster rate (9.9 percent) than the female population (9.5 percent)."

I wonder why that is?

www.google.com...://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi7mc7Gm-LfAhWPMd8KHXA5Du0QFj ABegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw11ZaHiC5nQSvDVUHdPzuAt

An interesting thing to read is the statistics about how a nation makes more males than females before a major war.

Something I was not aware of (your statistic) and something that I would like to chart, for fun...

A precursor?

Thank you for your post.

Isn't the broader point that selective service is an anachronism?

It's not that women should or shouldn't be registered for potential conscription, it's that no one should.

The UK have not had conscription for decades, but women can join any of the armed branches - Royal Navy, Royal Airforce or British Army, and can work in combat roles.

I think other European countries allow combat roles for women, but most no longer have conscription.

As a feminist, I think this is great.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

As the father of a 16 year old girl I feel my opinion on the matter counts.
I think she should sign up for selective service.
Not because I want her in combat but if we as a society are expected to look at both sexes as equal then both sexes need to have the same responsibilities.

Let's be honest here though, most women would not be able to perform the same as men in the field so they would automatically be exempt from combat.
My 5'6" 140lbs daughter would not be able to carry a 70lbs load like the men do.
But she can drive a truck, run a computer, cook, direct traffic on a flight deck.

How can we pick and choose where we deserve to be equal?

' ^^^^^ '


An army marches on its stomach. To be effective, an army relies on good and plentiful food. This saying is attributed to Napoleon Bonaparte.

She would fit in well?

a reply to: Lumenari

Brilliant post! My favourite part...

Who in their right mind would set a woman's football team against a men's football team?

My second favourite...

I like my men to BE men.

How utterly refreshing, in this age of men (white ones especially) supposed to feel ashamed for being what they were born as.

Bravo - and thanks for your service!

You should have said calling all WOMEN...

a reply to: eletheia

Women are great in the kitchen, sure. But let's not forget... they can also do laundry.