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Fox News Savagely Fact Checked trumps border speech

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posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: Starbuck799
a reply to: iplay1up2

Domestic crime has absolutely nothing to do with what Trump said. What Trump was getting at was that if these illegal immigrants were not in the country to begin with, then the illegal immigrant crime would not have happened in the first place, as it should be. And he was correct in that.

He never said that domestic crime was Not a problem, and he never compared domestic crime with illegal immigrant crime, (meaning Trump never said that illegal immigrant crime was worse than domestic crime.) In fact he never even brought up that argument, the MSM did, which has nothing to do with what Trump was saying!

Sheeze, why do you folks let the MSM manipulate you like that? The whole argument is Moot! People need to think critically and logically about what others say to see if what they are saying is a valid argument. In this case, the MSM argument is invalid, logically.


Which ignores the opportunity cost of building and maintaining the wall.

If you are going to spend billions on something that is meant to reduce crime, is it really best to target a small % of the population with an apparently lower rate of crime.




posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:51 AM
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So because there is less violent crime committed by the undocumented population than committed by U.S citizens, that means he was ‘wrong’ when he said “innocent people are being victimised”????

How do you work that one out?

Innocent people ARE still being victimised by some undocumented migrants . He’s 100% ‘right’.

Denying the antecedent does not disprove his statement.

I swear you libs get thicker by the day.
edit on 9 1 2019 by Breakthestreak because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf



“The government’s statistics show that there is less violent crime by the undocumented immigrant population than by the general population,” he said.



I laughed when I saw that originally... 330 million people versus 10-20 million people yea the general population should do a higher percentage of the crime.


Yeah.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:56 AM
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He was also 100% ‘right’ when he said they bring drugs across.

Just because more drugs get through by other means does not make him ‘wrong’.

Holy sh’it. How do people bend your minds like that? Oh I know, mainstream media does it for you. It’s called ‘manipulation’.

Which ‘fact’ did this OP disprove? Not one. Not. One.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

When one has a broken water pipe...it is easier to fix and will cost less in damages if you can stop the incoming flow. A wall is a workable deterrent to lessen the flow of illegal immigrants from continuously accumulating.

Our country can then focus on fixing the broken pipe and actual clean up of our other immigrant policies. In the long term money saved will cover future maintenance of the wall.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf



“The government’s statistics show that there is less violent crime by the undocumented immigrant population than by the general population,” he said.



I laughed when I saw that originally... 330 million people versus 10-20 million people yea the general population should do a higher percentage of the crime.


Anyone with a functioning brain would laugh at that talking point but I see and hear people spewing it constantly. After I point out how absurd the comparison is, I get labeled a "Trump loving, racist, old timer, right-winger" and blocked or unfriended or whatever....



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

That's a valid point.

Is there a political entity or person who is making the argument that the 5.7b is needed elsewhere, and providing a detailed plan for use of the money elsewhere, and that both their plan and Trump's plan can not coexist?

I'd like to hear that argument as it would inform my opinion on the subject much more than a flawed "fact check" by fox news.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: dug88


Hmmm actually....most of the heroin in north america comes from Afghanistan....


So? Do you have some reason to believe that it is not coming across the southern border? Are you unaware of the unholy alliances between some Mexican cartels and some Muslim terrorist groups?

There are only so many ways to get that crap in the country, including the borders. Since we don't share a border with Afghanistan, it has to come here another way.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Starbuck799
a reply to: iplay1up2

Domestic crime has absolutely nothing to do with what Trump said. What Trump was getting at was that if these illegal immigrants were not in the country to begin with, then the illegal immigrant crime would not have happened in the first place, as it should be. And he was correct in that.

He never said that domestic crime was Not a problem, and he never compared domestic crime with illegal immigrant crime, (meaning Trump never said that illegal immigrant crime was worse than domestic crime.) In fact he never even brought up that argument, the MSM did, which has nothing to do with what Trump was saying!

Sheeze, why do you folks let the MSM manipulate you like that? The whole argument is Moot! People need to think critically and logically about what others say to see if what they are saying is a valid argument. In this case, the MSM argument is invalid, logically.


Which ignores the opportunity cost of building and maintaining the wall.

If you are going to spend billions on something that is meant to reduce crime, is it really best to target a small % of the population with an apparently lower rate of crime.


Again, this is an invalid argument.

Trump never said that the need for a border wall was Only to stop illegal immigrant crime. That was just 1 part of his argument for a border wall. He spend most of his time in his statement talking about the humanitarian crisis. About how they don't have the resources to deal with all these illegal immigrants coming across the border illegally. He pointed out that a lot of the people coming over were in peril and being duped by Coyotes, with no access to food, water and medical attention.

You, and the MSM are making the argument that Trump's Only reason for a border wall is to stop illegal immigrant crime, then extrapolating that argument into the only reason why Trump says there needs to be a border wall, (which then leads to an invalid argument on your part.) When nothing could be further from the truth. Illegal immigrant crime is just 1 small part of Trump's reason for a border wall.

Again, like I said in my post above, you need to stop letting the MSM manipulate you, and start to think critically and logically about what people are really saying, including what Trump is saying.
edit on 9-1-2019 by Starbuck799 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog
Are they talking about Shep ?
He went full Proglib years ago.
Fox has to keep him on now for a specific reason



Ummm...is that the...in through the out door reason...?





YouSir



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: ScepticScot

When one has a broken water pipe...it is easier to fix and will cost less in damages if you can stop the incoming flow. A wall is a workable deterrent to lessen the flow of illegal immigrants from continuously accumulating.

Our country can then focus on fixing the broken pipe and actual clean up of our other immigrant policies. In the long term money saved will cover future maintenance of the wall.


If it's being sold as a way of reducing crime then surely the comparison is with other ways if reducing crime for the same money.

For example the total cost of building the wall is almost combined annual budget of ICE, the coast guard &'the FBI combined.

What would be the more effective way of decreasing crime & illegal immigration. The wall or increasing these agencies budgets?



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Starbuck799
a reply to: iplay1up2

Domestic crime has absolutely nothing to do with what Trump said. What Trump was getting at was that if these illegal immigrants were not in the country to begin with, then the illegal immigrant crime would not have happened in the first place, as it should be. And he was correct in that.

He never said that domestic crime was Not a problem, and he never compared domestic crime with illegal immigrant crime, (meaning Trump never said that illegal immigrant crime was worse than domestic crime.) In fact he never even brought up that argument, the MSM did, which has nothing to do with what Trump was saying!

Sheeze, why do you folks let the MSM manipulate you like that? The whole argument is Moot! People need to think critically and logically about what others say to see if what they are saying is a valid argument. In this case, the MSM argument is invalid, logically.


Which ignores the opportunity cost of building and maintaining the wall.

If you are going to spend billions on something that is meant to reduce crime, is it really best to target a small % of the population with an apparently lower rate of crime.


You conveniently ignore the "opportunity cost" of allowing tens of thousands of illegal immigrants into the country. We are spending something like $100 billion a year on illegal immigrant. Even if the wall is only partially effective, it would be a huge reduction in our cost relative to the cost of building said wall.

This is like if a business is losing $100k a year in leakage/theft but then some brain dead executive doesn't want to spend $5k to reduce that loss down to $50k.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: ScepticScot

When one has a broken water pipe...it is easier to fix and will cost less in damages if you can stop the incoming flow. A wall is a workable deterrent to lessen the flow of illegal immigrants from continuously accumulating.

Our country can then focus on fixing the broken pipe and actual clean up of our other immigrant policies. In the long term money saved will cover future maintenance of the wall.


If it's being sold as a way of reducing crime then surely the comparison is with other ways if reducing crime for the same money.

For example the total cost of building the wall is almost combined annual budget of ICE, the coast guard &'the FBI combined.

What would be the more effective way of decreasing crime & illegal immigration. The wall or increasing these agencies budgets?



Are you even reading my posts, or are you just being obtuse on purpose? Because your argument is critically and logically invalid. Do you even school?



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:15 PM
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“Savagely fact checked”

And they didn’t find ONE single lie.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: Starbuck799

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Starbuck799
a reply to: iplay1up2

Domestic crime has absolutely nothing to do with what Trump said. What Trump was getting at was that if these illegal immigrants were not in the country to begin with, then the illegal immigrant crime would not have happened in the first place, as it should be. And he was correct in that.

He never said that domestic crime was Not a problem, and he never compared domestic crime with illegal immigrant crime, (meaning Trump never said that illegal immigrant crime was worse than domestic crime.) In fact he never even brought up that argument, the MSM did, which has nothing to do with what Trump was saying!

Sheeze, why do you folks let the MSM manipulate you like that? The whole argument is Moot! People need to think critically and logically about what others say to see if what they are saying is a valid argument. In this case, the MSM argument is invalid, logically.


Which ignores the opportunity cost of building and maintaining the wall.

If you are going to spend billions on something that is meant to reduce crime, is it really best to target a small % of the population with an apparently lower rate of crime.


Again, this is an invalid argument.

Trump never said that the need for a border wall was Only to stop illegal immigrant crime. That was just 1 part of his argument for a border wall. He spend most of his time in his statement talking about the humanitarian crisis. About how they don't have the resources to deal with all these illegal immigrants coming across the border illegally. He pointed out that a lot of the people coming over were in peril and being duped by Coyotes, with no access to food, water and medical attention.

You, and the MSM are making the argument that Trump's Only reason for a border wall is to stop illegal immigrant crime, then extrapolating that argument into the only reason why Trump says there needs to be a border wall, (which then leads to an invalid argument on your part.) When nothing could be further from the truth. Illegal immigrant crime is just 1 small part of Trump's reason for a border wall.

Again, like I said in my post above, you need to stop letting the MSM manipulate you, and start to think critically and logically about what people are really saying, including what Trump is saying.


Not sure how a wall will have much beneficial impact on any humanitarian crises (assuming there is one).

My point has nothing to do with MSM. Does it ever occur to you that you might not be superior and that you are at least as likely to be duped by Trumps statements as others are by the news?



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: ScepticScot

When one has a broken water pipe...it is easier to fix and will cost less in damages if you can stop the incoming flow. A wall is a workable deterrent to lessen the flow of illegal immigrants from continuously accumulating.

Our country can then focus on fixing the broken pipe and actual clean up of our other immigrant policies. In the long term money saved will cover future maintenance of the wall.


If it's being sold as a way of reducing crime then surely the comparison is with other ways if reducing crime for the same money.

For example the total cost of building the wall is almost combined annual budget of ICE, the coast guard &'the FBI combined.

What would be the more effective way of decreasing crime & illegal immigration. The wall or increasing these agencies budgets?



That is the point, though isn't it? Crime is not the only reason that this wall is being 'sold'. That is simply cherry picking out of the multitude of reasons a wall is needed. Trump has listed numerous reasons based on facts given to him by our Border Patrol Authorities and ICE.

Edit add: those facts are not Trump's but the same facts that Obama and prior Presidents shared with us for decades! All provided by the agencies whose duty it is to protect and serve our country.




edit on 1 9 2019 by CynConcepts because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: ScepticScot

When one has a broken water pipe...it is easier to fix and will cost less in damages if you can stop the incoming flow. A wall is a workable deterrent to lessen the flow of illegal immigrants from continuously accumulating.

Our country can then focus on fixing the broken pipe and actual clean up of our other immigrant policies. In the long term money saved will cover future maintenance of the wall.


If it's being sold as a way of reducing crime then surely the comparison is with other ways if reducing crime for the same money.

For example the total cost of building the wall is almost combined annual budget of ICE, the coast guard &'the FBI combined.

What would be the more effective way of decreasing crime & illegal immigration. The wall or increasing these agencies budgets?



It’s a one-off cost
Not an annual cost
It’s a good use of the money. It will work to reduce the number illegal immigrants.
Reducing the number of illegal immigrants is something the democrats and their supporters want to do.
You know that right?



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: Breakthestreak
“Savagely fact checked”

And they didn’t find ONE single lie.


Yet, the headline will shared and repeated by countless Useful Idiots....



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: iplay1up2

You know facts? How about "Spin" facts? Yes it is true that “Government statistics show "much" (I jumped in here, **not ALL Heroin**, but much, how much is much?) of the heroin actually comes not over the unguarded border but through ports of call,” he said. ... BUT Pres. didn't only mention Heroin, he mentioned several other drugs that while including Heroin (which is huge, just not as huge of an amount than the ports) make up the FACT that he stated. What I was surprised at was he did not mention Marijuana at all, yet that is a huge export or was, and due to the legalization and abundance of the drug today, cartels have switched to heroin and meth as their top drugs of choice to smuggle..


edit on 9-1-2019 by hdchop because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:29 PM
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Agreed!!




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