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Dems saying a wall is immoral are outraged trump is trying to pull back from illegal wars

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posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: narrator


That money is better spent on other immigration measures.


Agreed, I think this has just become a pissing contest between Trump and the left for 2020 posturing.

If we truly wanted to address illegal immigration we would restructure our foreign policy in Latin America which devastated much of it, modernize our visa program for foreign labor as well as forcing employers to verify workers status, and finally legalize marijuana to send a blow to the trans-border drug trade.


Reposting for the truth. Agreed 100%. Restructure policies/visa programs and legalize marijuana (and mushrooms, despite that being a much smaller drug trade, they just need to be legal with how helpful they are), that'd be a great start.




posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: narrator

Who would know better about the crisis on the border...you or a border patrol officer?
NUFF' SAID


Not "Nuff said", again.
How do you know I'm not an agent, don't work for their agency, or don't personally know people who are/do? You're insinuating things you probably shouldn't.

Now, I've already said a couple times that yes, the wall will stop casual illegal immigrants from coming into the country. All well and good, I guess. But Trump's whole thing is to prevent criminals, drug dealers, etc. from getting in our country. People really determined to get here, for various nefarious reasons.

You truly think that putting up a wall that's about 20' tall and covers about 1/5 of our border is going to stop someone that's really determined to get here?

There was a report not too long ago (spoken about on ATS as well) about a couple of people who went over the wall from Mexico in a homemade airplane, landed in a field on the other side. The wall did nothing to stop them. You know what did? The border patrol agents who were there waiting to arrest them.
ETA: Heck, an inflatable human-hamster ball and a catapult is enough to defeat the dreaded wall.

Put the money toward things that have more of a chance of working than a 20' tall hurdle. That's all I'm saying. The wall will keep the people out who we might actually want here, hard workers that just want a better job and better life. But criminals? It will stop them for a very short period of time, until they have time to hire/steal a plane, or a boat.
edit on 9-1-2019 by narrator because: ETA



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: narrator

Thank ya now, I liked your post as well, conflating the wall and war is a bit of a stretch. However I do think it needs to be an immediate withdrawal.

Everywhere we've been is worse off than before. Should we temper the retreat, our dwindling numbers will just be attacked and then we're back to square one. Rip it off like a band-aid I say.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: olaru12
Would it be possible to get some material that isn't just a rehash of Rush and Brian Kilmeade. And your vlog is getting repetitive as well.

We get it....Trump good, libs bad!

And your vlog presentation screams "amateur" time to game up amigo! With just a little tweeking, you could be the new Alex Jones and monetize your deal. I know you put a lot of effort in to the rants why not ratchet up a notch and reach an audience besides you tube and ATS.



Your posts are becoming worth less and less as time progresses. If you don't do something now, your posts will start to look like soundguy's posts.

Where's you refutation to the post? What do you think of continuing war efforts in the Middle East? Why is that not immoral but the wall is?

Are you out of arguments that make sense? Is that it?

Seems like.


I'm crushed that you don't approve of my posting style. And I really appreciate you putting words in my mouth and thinking for me.


Talk about beating a dead horse....

try as you might to censor anti trump post and threads with your insults, we still have the 1st amendment and the constitution that I swore an oath to uphold when I served.
edit on 9-1-2019 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-1-2019 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: olaru12



Lol, who is trying to sensor you?

You seem to make things up when you get called out, kind of sad.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: projectvxn

originally posted by: olaru12
Would it be possible to get some material that isn't just a rehash of Rush and Brian Kilmeade. And your vlog is getting repetitive as well.

We get it....Trump good, libs bad!

And your vlog presentation screams "amateur" time to game up amigo! With just a little tweeking, you could be the new Alex Jones and monetize your deal. I know you put a lot of effort in to the rants why not ratchet up a notch and reach an audience besides you tube and ATS.



Your posts are becoming worth less and less as time progresses. If you don't do something now, your posts will start to look like soundguy's posts.

Where's you refutation to the post? What do you think of continuing war efforts in the Middle East? Why is that not immoral but the wall is?

Are you out of arguments that make sense? Is that it?

Seems like.


I'm crushed that you don't approve of my posting style. And I really appreciate you putting words in my mouth and thinking for me.


Talk about beating a dead horse....

try as you might to censor anti trump post and threads with your insults, we still have the 1st amendment and the constitution that I swore an oath to uphold when I served.


Just to point out, you came into this thread with insults.

So if you think insults are trying to censor opinions, is this your admission you are trying to censor me?



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

It looks like you have a stalker.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: olaru12

I swore the same oath.

No one is trying to censor you.

I didn't put words in your mouth, I pointed out your deliberate sidestep of the topic in favor of insults.

Kindly let go of that victim mentality. No one is after you.
edit on 9 1 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: narrator




No, not "nuff said". That's a ridiculous comparison. I'd argue that most people, Liberals and Conservatives, have walls on their houses to protect them from WEATHER, not people. Walls hold up a roof, which keeps more weather out of their homes. Houses have many other ways for people to get inside, despite the fact that they have walls. Doors, windows, vents, etc



Damn those locked doors! They should be open for all to enter!



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: narrator

Who would know better about the crisis on the border...you or a border patrol officer?
NUFF' SAID


He doesn't understand that a wall will do well and assist the border patrol in doing their jobs. Sure, some may go over the wall but the border patrol can gain from how slowly they do it.

I agree with more BP but thinking that BP alone, even more of them would fix the issue. We're talking about thousands of miles of BP. No way they're going to hire that many. The wall will HELP this situation. I rather do this than have my taxes be givin in the BILLIONS to a country that is and will do nothing against the drug cartels, especially when they themselves are bought out by the drug cartels.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Grambler




Yet the same democrats saying that are outraged that trump would even try to pull troops back from illegal wars in Afghanistan and Syria

I think we would be wise not to be lectured on morality from blood thirsty people that push for regime change wars every chance they get

When America pulls out of Syria the people who you've supported and encouraged , the Kurds , will be slaughtered by Turkey , Erdogan already has the hump that the withdrawal has been slowed , Bolton thinks the Turks should guarantee Kurdish fighters security which earned him a snub yesterday.

Your country has a moral responsibility to these people regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation.


1. There is not a moral responsibility to these people anymore than any other rebels the US has armed. Does the UIS have a moral responsibility to the Muhjahadeen they armed in the late 70's?

2. Half of the people the US has been arming in syria are islamic extremists groups such as al nursa. Staying there means we continue to arm islamic terrorists, in addition to killing innocent people That morality seems to at leaset be commiserate with that of the responsibility to the kurds.

3. When would this responsibility wear out? This will be used as a justification to have a never ending wars and troops stationed,. because to ever leave puts the kurds is jeopardy.

4. We can pull troops out and still enforce a situation where kurds arent butchered.

5. Turkey is our nato ally. So if you are right, this proves trumps claim nato is worthless. In addition, allow turkey to then be punished for unjust was internationally if they attack the kurds. They should be booted from nato, sanctioned, and international cooperation of countries should send troops in if the insist on being genocidal.

The excuse of "we have to kill people in foriegn countries else there will be genocide" has been used over and over in places like libya, and I find that very immoral.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: iplay1up2
a reply to: Grambler

What exactly makes you an expert on wars? American Generals have said pulling out of Syria would be a mistake. Yet you sit behind your keyboard, bashing them. Its not the Dems, its our Military, who says we should not pull out. How long did you serve??


I have not served, nor do I claim to be heroic.

That doesnt bar me from discussing war.

Generals also said we should overthrow the shaw in Iran, support castros revolution, overthrow Libya, go into iraq, go into vietnam, arm the taliban to fight russia, and so forth.

They are often wrong.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: iplay1up2

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: gortex


Your country has a moral responsibility to these people regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation.


Why can't the UK help them? Why us?



Do you want to take a chance, ISIS regroups and attacks the U.S.? I trust the Military, and what they say. You go ahead and trust Grambler.


So lets look at this deeper.

Assad is fighting a bunch of groups that are working to rebel againt him.

You havekurds, some fed up syrian people that are probably good people, and islamic terror groups like al nursa that have similar ideologies to isis, and isis itself.

So the US backs the groups against assad, including giving arms to islamioc terrorists.

Now the claim is actaully we have to stay there to stop isis, which is on the same side we have been on?

If the mission was to destroy isis, why were we not fighting with assad instead of against him?

How would pulling out and stopping arming isis allies lead to isis coming back stronger?



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: Muninn
a reply to: Grambler

It looks like you have a stalker.


I just hope he is cute



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: narrator

Thank you for the well thoughtb out response.

Though I disagree with you.

Yes, you are right that we all have a different code of morals.

But I am not the one intially trying to shame others for their morality; the dems here are.

It seems quite obvious to me that there are a lot of things people can say when disagrreeing with each other politically.

Once you claim the other side is immoral, yoiu make the chances of negotiation and disvussion near zero, because its not just thatbyour opponent is wrong, its that they are a bad person.

That is why i am opposed tothis type of politics.

Now if you are going to play that game, you better have a darn good case.

In this case, the dems argument is walls are immoral? Walls which they have basically voted for in the past? And with basically no explanantion as to why, proving this is just to villify their opponent and avoid discussion.

Gven that, its fair to point out the things they do find moral.

These wars whcih I feel are immoral are one suhch example.

Now you may be able to argue with me why the wars are moral, effective, etc. I would never call you immpral for this reasonable discussion.

But my point is I am not going to take seriously people telling me building a wall to proptect your people is immoral, but killing people across the globe is moral.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: narrator

You're a funny one, especially when you reach so far up.... to get these answers!




How do you know I'm not an agent


- Because if you were, like all the rest of them, you would be supporting Trump and this WALL.



Now, I've already said a couple times that yes, the wall will stop casual illegal immigrants from coming into the country.


- Isn't that the whole point? We don't simply want JUST a wall. We want border security WITH AND DAMN WALL. How hard is that to understand? It's silly to think that just by getting more BP that this alone will fix the problem. No... It wont. We need a wall as well. A wall around your house won't stop a flood but it will damn sure slow the flow enough to give the pumps enough time to pump out the water as it comes in.

How's that for an analogy?




You truly think that putting up a wall that's about 20' tall and covers about 1/5 of our border is going to stop someone that's really determined to get here?


- It will most certainly help! If it doesn't there will be a lot of broken bones. People with broken legs won't have time to run before BP get's there. Sides... It's not meant to be the sole purpose in this issue. It's not a one part fix. Wall first, then fill in the missing assistance with more BP. That's seems more like business logic. You don't do it the other way around or you may be unemploying a good many BP.



There was a report not too long ago (spoken about on ATS as well) about a couple of people who went over the wall from Mexico in a homemade airplane, landed in a field on the other side. The wall did nothing to stop them. You know what did? The border patrol agents who were there waiting to arrest them.


- That's awesome! BP were doing their job! Why would this change? You think everyone comes over on a make believe rocket ship? You're still thinking with a narrow minded focus. Ice cream without cake is just ice cream. Together they make one hell of a desert.




Heck, an inflatable human-hamster ball and a catapult is enough to defeat the dreaded wall.


- Personally I think if they could afford this, they wouldn't be crossing the border. My other points still stand.

Wait! Maybe we can build a counter catapult and shoot them back over, but a better one so it'll shoot the farther. And maybe light it on fire too for effect! Or maybe a giant robot that can spike the ball back to Mexico's side that constantly blares, "What... What... You can't handle this"!




Put the money toward things that have more of a chance of working than a 20' tall hurdle.


- Oh do you mean like the billions and billions we're going to just GIVE to the corrupt mexican government who are in the back pockets of the Cartel? Great idea. Let's make Mexico Great Again, Screw the USA. They're only ran by the bloody, murdering cartel! Wonder how Mexico's finances worked out over the last 100 years?




The wall will keep the people out who we might actually want here, hard workers that just want a better job and better life.


- Then do it like the ones that can prove it first... Like the ones who actually come in here LEGALLY. They show more character and worth than simply coming across by dodging cactus. AND... AND... they can legally make more money. Not that chump change tax free money that we pad to have sub par work.

Ever been to the Home Depot in 'cultural' areas? Why don't you ask them what they charge per hour worth of labor? It's a hell of alot more than you think. They will charge you GOING RATES. The only difference is, you don't have to pay for benefits or all that paperwork and filing you will with hired legal employees.




But criminals? It will stop them for a very short period of time, until they have time to hire/steal a plane, or a boat.


- It's ok. We have security measures for that too, just like we have everywhere else. I vote we blow them up and ask questions later. You know, like the iron dome thing. If they're not supposed to come across, BOOM - shaka lakah!


I have spoken!



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: iplay1up2




American Generals have said pulling out of Syria would be a mistake.


American Generals say a lot of things. At the end of the day, they will do their jobs. That job is to prosecute a war. They are, however, subservient to civilian powers. What the CIVILIAN government says, goes.




Its not the Dems, its our Military, who says we should not pull out.


Maybe. But we've been in the ME for almost 18 years and we've expanded the War on Terror to nearly the entirety of the Middle East without much reward. The military has a vested interest in continued deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and several other places where we maintain a presence AND engage in combat operations.




How long did you serve??


This is not a metric by which to measure the validity of one's ideas or positions on any given topic. It's called an Appeal to Authority logical fallacy. But if you insist on this being a metric for validity, I happen to share much of Grambler's view on our military presence in the Middle East, so:

I personally served 4 years of a 6 year contract with the US Army. I was a tier 1 CE in an air assault unit until I was injured in Afghanistan.


edit on 9 1 19 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: olaru12

I swore the same oath.

No one is trying to censor you.

I didn't put words in your mouth, I pointed out your deliberate sidestep of the topic in favor of insults.

Kindly let go of that victim mentality. No one is after you.


Great, thanks......then I'm still allowed to beat the dead horse and remind you that trump is a draft dodging coward and I will never respect him for his past actions. I will point out every lie, and every other dumb ass thing he tweets.

And I can never respect anyone that supports him and makes excuses for his lies, his blatant racism, and using both as tools to manipulate his followers.


edit on 9-1-2019 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: olaru12




trump is a draft dodging coward


Trump was medically rejected and received deferments like many other Americans at the time.




And I can never respect anyone that supports him


Well, that's on you. It's obvious a conversation of any kind cannot be had with you.




his blatant racism


Prove it or shut up. Been waiting to see proof of this "blatant" racism.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: iplay1up2




American Generals have said pulling out of Syria would be a mistake.


American Generals say a lot of things. At the end of the day, they will do their jobs. That job is to prosecute a war. They are, however, subservient to civilian powers. What the CIVILIAN government says, goes.




Its not the Dems, its our Military, who says we should not pull out.


Maybe. But we've been in the ME for almost 18 years and we've expanded the War on Terror to nearly the entirety of the Middle East without much reward. The military has a vested interest in continued deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and several other places where we maintain a presence AND engage in combat operations.




How long did you serve??


This is not a metric by which to measure the validity of one's ideas or positions on any given topic. It's called an Appeal to Authority logical fallacy. But if you insist on this being a metric for validity, I happen to share much of Grambler's view on our military presence in the Middle East, so:

I personally served 4 years of a 6 year contract with the US Army. I was a tier 1 CE in an air assault unit until I was injured in Afghanistan.



Thank you very much for your personal sacrifice VXN.




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