It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Dems saying a wall is immoral are outraged trump is trying to pull back from illegal wars

page: 3
29
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Grambler




Yet the same democrats saying that are outraged that trump would even try to pull troops back from illegal wars in Afghanistan and Syria

I think we would be wise not to be lectured on morality from blood thirsty people that push for regime change wars every chance they get

When America pulls out of Syria the people who you've supported and encouraged , the Kurds , will be slaughtered by Turkey , Erdogan already has the hump that the withdrawal has been slowed , Bolton thinks the Turks should guarantee Kurdish fighters security which earned him a snub yesterday.

Your country has a moral responsibility to these people regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation.

Dang , and here it is I have always learned in history that the UK was mostly responsible for the Kurdish situation.
As well as the Israeli/Palestinian situation .
They were assisted by the UN in creating those 2 messes , though.
Will give em that much leeway.




posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:36 AM
link   
a reply to: gortex

You’re right, and this is the one regrettable thing about this situation. The Kurds have been our allies, and often our proxies on the ground, and we risk abandoning them. And that’s why a withdrawal will not happen without a deal to protect the Kurds.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:39 AM
link   
C'mon people, we are still right next door in Iraq. They can fly over Syria any time they want to. It's not like they're leaving the middle east.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:41 AM
link   
If walls are immoral there wouldn't be one around the white house.

But we all know the president's life is more important than yours.

Same idea that built that one is for the one down south.

To keep bad people out, and from doing bad things.

And it really is THAT simple.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:41 AM
link   
a reply to: toms54


It's not like they're leaving the middle east.


Damn shame.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:43 AM
link   
The fighting in the Middle East is an easy one to use for political gain.

There will always be an argument for and an argument against fighting there.

Wars are no longer fought to defeat enemies and to provide freedoms for a population or to push back against an invading country.

Wars are business. Wars are ideological.

There is no clear finish line, no pursuit of peace.


It's one of those arguments where either side can state that they hold the moral high ground and no quarter is ever given. War, for most is an abstract term, meaningless to most who argue for/against it.


I'll leave this thread with this. . .


"I confess without shame that I am tired & sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. Even success, the most brilliant is over dead and mangled bodies […] It is only those who have not heard a shot, nor heard the shrills & groans of the wounded & lacerated (friend or foe) that cry aloud for more blood & more vengeance, more desolation & so help me God as a man & soldier I will not strike a foe who stands unarmed & submissive before me but will say ‘Go sin no more.’ "

-Letter to James E. Yeatman (May 1865) William Tecumseh Sherman



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:49 AM
link   
How can a wall be immoral?

Its just a bloody wall. Not like gunning illegals down is is?

Sure I think a wall pointless and there are better ways to deal with illegal immigration, IE enforcing current laws and sanctioning sanctuary city's.

But its only 5 billion, a drop in the USA budget and a wall not going to kill anyone.

If it shuts the derp brigade up, just give it to them.
edit on 9-1-2019 by Unruhestifter because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: iplay1up2

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: gortex


Your country has a moral responsibility to these people regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation.


Why can't the UK help them? Why us?



Do you want to take a chance, ISIS regroups and attacks the U.S.? I trust the Military, and what they say. You go ahead and trust Grambler.


We got into Syria because we saw an opportunity to take out Assad and inadvertently helped isis by training and arming the rebels. Time to get out and let Russia and Assad clean up the rest of isis.

Remember those fresh Toyota trucks isis was running around in?



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: iplay1up2

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: gortex


Your country has a moral responsibility to these people regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation.


Why can't the UK help them? Why us?



Do you want to take a chance, ISIS regroups and attacks the U.S.? I trust the Military, and what they say. You go ahead and trust Grambler.


awwww he still believes what his government tell him, how quaint.

Bet you believe there where WMD's in Iraq too?



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soundguy
I have to ask, do you EVER leave your parents basement? I feel it’s unlikely. a reply to: Grambler



For someone who 95 percent of their posts are insults, you would think you could at least have one that was original



This coming from the guy, who creates 95% of all posts.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: iplay1up2

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soundguy
I have to ask, do you EVER leave your parents basement? I feel it’s unlikely. a reply to: Grambler



For someone who 95 percent of their posts are insults, you would think you could at least have one that was original



This coming from the guy, who creates 95% of all posts.


And thank God for that, otherwise this place would be infested with a lot of senseless, no-substance, screeching all day.

At least Grambler puts a lot of effort and thought into his posts, something most of you lefties are incapable of.

Reee on, though.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:20 AM
link   

originally posted by: iplay1up2

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soundguy
I have to ask, do you EVER leave your parents basement? I feel it’s unlikely. a reply to: Grambler



For someone who 95 percent of their posts are insults, you would think you could at least have one that was original



This coming from the guy, who creates 95% of all posts.


What's that do for the debate though?

Here, I'll tell you my thoughts. The wall is a drop in the bucket money wise, not far off from past democrats position on immigration but doesn't really address too much of the root cause. It may help with day to day for border patrol, but we need a wide platform to address root causes of immigration.

The wars in the Middle East have nothing to do with 9/11 and the fact we were attacked (by mainly Saudi's). The longer we're there, the more generations of hate we will breed. We have to leave at some point, and yes there will be fallout we'll have to weather.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:35 AM
link   
This is like comparing apples to hot dogs, these 2 things aren't even worth comparing for a debate. This post is a stretch, and is entirely based on opinions. People, democrat or otherwise, are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours. If people find one to be wrong but not the other, so be it.
For example, there are people right here on ATS that feel it's completely immoral to remove a statue honoring Confederates, but have no problem removing a statue of Baphomet from a state building. Why is one immoral and the other isn't? They're both statues, and therefore pretty much the same thing. But people hold vastly differing opinions about it. It's all opinion, and people are free to have their opinions, regardless of how crazy they may seem to you.

Now, my opinion:

The wall wouldn't be immoral. It would be dumb and a huge waste of money, but not immoral. It's an inanimate object.

All war is at least a little immoral. Depending on which set of morals you follow, war could be wholly immoral. "Thou shalt not kill" comes readily to mind.

From what I gather though, most Dems (can't speak for everyone) are upset about HOW Trump wanted to pull out, not that he wants to. The immediate "we're leaving" decision is brash and not-super-smart, and people called him out for it. However, the overall idea of pulling out of the wars is a good thing.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:36 AM
link   
How many Liberals have houses that look like the one below?
Is this analogy way over your heads?
Explain to us why a wall wouldn't be useful in stemming the flow of illegals into our country.
Would it be 100% effective?....NO
Would it be better than what we have now....YES
Do Border Patrol agents want a wall?....YES

SURVEY: 89% of Border Patrol Agents Support Building Trump’s Wall

ntknetwork.com...
Are the DEMS blocking funding because it's too expensive?....NO
Are the DEMS blocking funding because they hate Trump?....YES
'NUFF SAID





posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:47 AM
link   

originally posted by: iplay1up2
a reply to: Grambler

What exactly makes you an expert on wars? American Generals have said pulling out of Syria would be a mistake. Yet you sit behind your keyboard, bashing them. Its not the Dems, its our Military, who says we should not pull out. How long did you serve??


So in order to criticize you have to have served?

How long were you President?
edit on 9-1-2019 by Carcharadon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:48 AM
link   
a reply to: shawmanfromny

No, not "nuff said". That's a ridiculous comparison. I'd argue that most people, Liberals and Conservatives, have walls on their houses to protect them from WEATHER, not people. Walls hold up a roof, which keeps more weather out of their homes. Houses have many other ways for people to get inside, despite the fact that they have walls. Doors, windows, vents, etc.

But let's give it the benefit of the doubt: Let's say that the percentage of walls to windows/doors on an average house is 90% wall, 10% windows/doors. Fair? Ok, let's look at Trump's wall now:
Trump's proposed border wall would protect approximately 20% of our borders. That's a failing percentage no matter how you slice it (not to mention it would make for a poorly made home). Is it really worth it to spend that much money to only protect 1/5th of our border?

Boats, planes, etc will just be used more often if the wall is built. Sure, it'll stop the casual illegal immigrant, but someone determined to get here, will find a way to get here.

That money is better spent on other immigration measures. ETA: In the example photo you provided, even without walls, if you were to place 2-3 border agents on each side of that "house", people wouldn't be able to get in very easily at all.


edit on 9-1-2019 by narrator because: spelling

edit on 9-1-2019 by narrator because: ETA



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: narrator
a reply to: shawmanfromny

No, not "nuff said". That's a ridiculous comparison. I'd argue that most people, Liberals and Conservatives, have walls on their houses to protect them from WEATHER, not people. Walls hold up a roof, which keeps more weather out of their homes. Houses have many other ways for people to get inside, despite the fact that they have walls. Doors, windows, vents, etc.

But let's give it the benefit of the doubt: Let's say that the percentage of walls to windows/doors on an average house is 90% wall, 10% windows/doors. Fair? Ok, let's look at Trump's wall now:
Trump's proposed border wall would protect approximately 20% of our borders. That's a failing percentage no matter how you slice it (not to mention it would make for a poorly made home). Is it really worth it to spend that much money to only protect 1/5th of our border?

Boats, planes, etc will just be used more often if the wall is built. Sure, it'll stop the casual illegal immigrant, but someone determined to get here, will find a way to get here.

That money is better spent on other immigration measures.


And yet somehow despite your vast knowledge the men and women at the border, in their ignorance, say the exact opposite.

Who to believe? Anonymous person on the internet or the people putting their lives on the line at the border every day?

Tough call that one.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:53 AM
link   
a reply to: narrator


That money is better spent on other immigration measures.


Agreed, I think this has just become a pissing contest between Trump and the left for 2020 posturing.

If we truly wanted to address illegal immigration we would restructure our foreign policy in Latin America which devastated much of it, modernize our visa program for foreign labor as well as forcing employers to verify workers status, and finally legalize marijuana to send a blow to the trans-border drug trade.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:57 AM
link   
a reply to: Carcharadon

I never said I had the one, correct, solution. Sure, the wall will stop some people (I said that in my previous post). But, determined drug dealers, criminals, etc. aren't going to walk/travel for days, get to the wall, and say "welp, that sucks, might as well turn around".

They're going to find another way.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 12:00 PM
link   
a reply to: narrator

Who would know better about the crisis on the border...you or a border patrol officer?
NUFF' SAID



new topics

top topics



 
29
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join