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It aint right

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posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:04 PM
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We shouldn't be calling ourselves a first world nation or giving away billions in welfare to other countries with the healthcare system we have in place.

I have seen our healthcare to many times with close friends and family wreak havoc on hard working productive Americans .

Just recently over the holidays watched my neighbors life get wrecked as I watch two twin girls just turned 13 getting bitched slapped by this country.

My neighbor who has a PHD and practices at local hospitals and is a nursing professor at a major university , went in for pain on the side of her ribs and breathing issues after getting word that she was offered a high ranking position at a new medical facility out of town. Only to find out she has full blown stage 4 lung cancer despite not having smoked in over 2 decades. The cancer spread to her spine and they had to fly her out of town to a specialist and perform an emergency operation to prevent her from dying as the cancer was impacting her breathing. Long story short after the emergency operation she is now paralyzed and so induced with drugs that she is not quite herself or likely ever go back to work.

So after being a very productive member of society our healtcare system is going to bleed her dry for every possible dollar she has despite having medical insurance and being in the industry. She will have to make decisions whether she decides to get some treatment to live a little longer or keep the money for her daughters.

She doesn't come from the best family and those two girls might end up in foster care or given to family members who could care less and sees them as a burden if she dies . So besides dealing with the cancer and worrying who is going to take care of her daughters she also has to make decisions about her life based on monetary decisions.

The consequence is that she has 2 daughters that will end up not only without a mother but no financial security for their future. Its been beating me up watching what has happened to this family so quickly. The wife and I have done what we can to help out and have discussed the possibility of adopting the children depending how this goes. Its just fd up to see this sh1t happen especially involving kids who will be hit the hardest from all sides.

I saw it happen to my parents as well. My father was a small business owner for over 30 years and employed hundreds of people before he had a stroke . He was financially bled by the system and we now take care of them and pay all their bills with no gov't tax breaks whats so ever that are of any significance.

Many of us plan for the future financially. However, that means squat for the majority of the middle class if you get significant illness later in life that will eat all your savings just so you can stay alive until you run out of money.

Neither the republicans or the democrats have the answer and we need to stop with inserting politics into real issues in this country. the healthcare system is broken and the taxes being paid into the system are not being used properly.

We need to focus on getting rid of conflict of interest in politics so we can do what is right for this country. Its not working on eitherside to try to fix the issues such as healthcare while their is conflict of interest on politics. The only ones that are making out are the corporations lobbying our politicians or the extremely .0001%. If they get cancer you think they have to go through their life savings to buy an extra day?

It just aint right that you are a productive member of society then you have to make financial decisions on whether its best to die or try to get treatment. In her case those girls need her , but they also need a way to be financially supported due to their age, what would you do? its just fd up that someone under such horrific conditions already has to make such a decision.

it just aint right and it can happen to any middle class person right or left politically leaning.

I'm going to do some googling but perhaps someone may be able to help with the following.
Are there any organizations that might be able to assist them financially if they are not low income earners? Also she has an expensive car payment that she can no longer use ? Do you know of way to return the vehicle besides calling the bank directly when someone is diagnosed as terminal?


edit on 06131America/ChicagoTue, 08 Jan 2019 12:06:42 -0600000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



(post by InTheLight removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

Sorry about your neighbor.

Nothing is sadder than seeing the fruits of a life picked clean by vultures and debt passed on after that life.



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

You know....both parties have had their chance to fix it. We approve of their failures by rewarding them with an extension of their power.

Blame the men and women in the mirror.



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
REMOVED BY STAFF


The problem isn't as simple as getting people to back a universal health care system.

That will fail too just like obamcare was a failure because you can't get the gov't to implement anything for the people as long as they have conflict of interest.

We must first minimize and get rid of conflict of interest with our politicians before we start handing them more money and power.

That is why it irks me to hear the democrats talk about socialism, universal healthcare, free education ,etc. You cant do any of that as long as you have conflict of interest or you will just end up with he same bs system we got. I really wish they would focus on fixing conflict of interest before they try to sell those things.







edit on 8-1-2019 by burdman30ott6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

Wow...that's quite a story! Pretty tragic indeed!

Yes, situations like this are not "fair" for sure.

Seems to me one of the first things she should do is get "selfish". By this, what I mean is; take what funds she has left and contact an attorney. Have them set up a trust for the girls with whatever assets they can. Insulate the girls from any and all future debt. Then let the bills add up. Screw the car; call the bank and tell 'em to come get it because they're not making another payment on it...ever. Her credit history can't get passed on to her children, so who cares what her credit score is. Hospitals can send all the bills they want, but they can't refuse treatment. File for bankruptcy protection on primary dwelling. Stay one step ahead. Play their cards before they get a chance to.

If you're serious about adopting the girls, and everyone else is agreeable, then start this process right now. Minimally, lay all of the legal track ahead of time so the actual adoption happens ASAP as soon as legally able. Then, there's no need for Mom to worry about houses, mortgages, etc. And, the girls are protected from mom's debt. Mom isn't probably going to be living at the house much longer anyway, so as long as the girls have someplace to live, then mom can stay wherever she best needs to (hospital / hospice).

Don't let the insurance company's attach the debt across a generation (and they will try too, if they can get away with it).

When the system plays dirty, you've got to play just as dirty right back!

Best suggestion I've got.

edit on 1/8/2019 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: interupt42

You know....both parties have had their chance to fix it. We approve of their failures by rewarding them with an extension of their power.

Blame the men and women in the mirror.


I completely agree with you . Its insane that neither the individual republicans or individual democrats aren't joining forces to force their parties to minimize conflict of interest in politics as neither side is getting what they want.



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

Hence the petition, people taking matters into their own hands.



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:26 PM
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What do you think would have happened to her in another country?

Could she have gotten the surgery?



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

All due respect, but given your OP...why are you still sitting here discussing politics on ATS, and debating something which none of us will ever be able to solve in the remaining time before your neighbor's death???

Get up, and go DO something! You have an opportunity to be part of a solution, not just another part of a problem!

There will be plenty of time to file petitions, run for office...and boil the oceans...(or whatever) later!


edit on 1/8/2019 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk




Seems to me one of the first things she should do is get "selfish". By this, what I mean is; take what funds she has left and contact an attorney. Have them set up a trust for the girls with whatever assets they can.

the problem is she isn't in a right state of mind. Her brother supposedly was handling that , but like I said she doesn't come from the best family and despite him being a dentist and financially well of he doesn't appear to give a crap about his sister or his nieces. He hasn't even gone to see her and hasn't been around to help. The only people helping has been her mother who is way to old and starting to display signs of dementia, our self and one other friend who visited for a week.





Hospitals can send all the bills they want, but they can't refuse treatment.

That is true if you go to the ER but not if you are out of the ER.





If you're serious about adopting the girls, and everyone else is agreeable, then start this process right now. Minimally, lay all of the legal track so the actual adoption happens ASAP as soon as legally able. Then, there's no need for Mom to worry about houses, mortgages, etc. And, the girls are protected from mom's debt. Mom isn't probably going to be living at the house much longer anyway, so as long as the girls have someplace to live, then mom can stay wherever she best needs to (hospital / hospice). Don't let the insurance company's attach the debt across a generation (and they will try too, if they can get away with it). When the system plays dirty, you've got to play just as dirty right back! Best suggestion I've got.


We haven't brought it up yet because of the state of mind she is in. Its hard to get all the info from the family. The mom said she was told from the doctors she is terminal ,however my neighbor thinks its hasn't been diagnosed as terminal yet and is going for a new chemo treatment on Friday. Not sure if the chemo is delay the progress or milk the insurance further?



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
What do you think would have happened to her in another country?

Could she have gotten the surgery?


Is another country painting themselves as the leader of the world?

I'm not saying this country is better or worse than any other just pointing out a big issue in this country.



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: interupt42


your opening declaration is the crux of the issue:

We shouldn't be calling ourselves a first world nation or giving away billions in welfare to other countries with the healthcare system we have in place.



imho, the incumbents mostly and the Freshmen on the 'inside' know full well that the Billions in Aid or Relief or other$ is given to Foreign Countries with strings attached

one of those strings is a kick back, in one form or another, to the Representative who Approved the very gracious Aid Package$$$.... an invite to see the Aid doled out to the masses/an invite to have a fact-finding tour (Along with the manilla Folder packed with FedReserveNotes handed to the US Congress/Senate person)


the Pelosi 54Billion foreign Aid package (together with the denial of 5Billion for-the-Wall) was a thin veiled show of power to Trump & the Administration fighting the Deep-State, that they control the corrupt government & will continue to pay-off foreign leaders who line the politicians pockets in return for the Big Bucks (how do Federal Representatives amass huge mega-million $$$ portfilos ---- they Skim & Scam It ! right in the open )


at least that's my opinion based on hearsay



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: interupt42
I'm going to do some googling but perhaps someone may be able to help with the following.
Are there any organizations that might be able to assist them financially if they are not low income earners? Also she has an expensive car payment that she can no longer use ? Do you know of way to return the vehicle besides calling the bank directly when someone is diagnosed as terminal?



Okay (if you read this) some options to consider:
* you're going to run into roadblocks EVERYWHERE (just advising that this will be exhausting and frustrating) - if you can find other allies to help in the quest it will be easier on everyone and more efficient. This is NOT a suggestion you quit, only a note to remind you that the journey is very difficult. I think you're a champion and a warrior for stepping up like this and you have a wonderfully compassionate heart.
* the information you need is going to be very hard to get (it's there, but finding it will make you want to tear your hair out.)
* You haven't said what the father/other relatives are doing - sadly, they can always show up and blow apart a good plan with some well-meaning but goofy moves. Again, just be aware of this. If you can contact them and let them know that there's members of the local community who can and want to help, it will go better.
* the illness will, as you have seen, diminish her ability to think and reason and she's probably aware of it... and that kind of loss is personally heartbreaking.
* they need local help and allies - people to talk to, to vent to, etc - hopefully the school has been alerted and hopefully they have compassionate guardians there who can watch for signs of trouble.

INFORMATION SHORTCUTS:
* contact cancer support/survivors groups (you may not have a local one, so look at national ones and understand that what works for one area won't work for another.)
* there may be some good information available at the college... talk to the disability services first (they're usually friendlier, are run by the disabled, and know how to get stuff at a reasonable price - AND they may know of additional grants or sources of money. Maybe. Don't get your hopes up.)
* one of the sources to check with is Human Resources (who are bureaucrats and well-meaning but they're ...bureaucrats.) however, they're going to only want to talk to her or a designated caretaker (power of attorney).
* ask the college librarians for information, including about charities and so forth. Librarians love to help and research and most are liberal tree-huggers (I say this as a liberal tree-hugger myself) and if there's something out there, they will try their darndest to retrieve it. And they're free.
* learn what the family needs most (help with meals? help with shopping? Paying bills?) - see if there's people around who can be available to do things like drive them around if needed. If there's 3-4 people they can call on for a ride, it'll be easier on everyone.


I will ponder on this for a bit and see what else I come up with (NB: this is information I gathered while researching for my PhD dissertation.)
edit on 8-1-2019 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:59 PM
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Also, for legal advice, the college may be able to help with that... but she's got to be the one to reach out (her mother might be able to do this.) If there's a law school there and if you can find a compassionate person, you might be able to get some advice and help, pro bono. It's been known to happen.



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk




All due respect, but given your OP...why are you still sitting here discussing politics on ATS, and debating something which none of us will ever be able to solve in the remaining time before your neighbor's death???

Fair question.
As a father I can't imagine what she is going through and NOT knowing how my child would be taken care of after I'm gone. So partly because its been bothering the crap out of me and it still shocking to see it happen so quickly and it helps somewhat to talk about it and maybe some good suggestions come from it.

Hopefully it helps other see how things like this can impact anyone and maybe realize the healthcare issue is bigger than identity politics.




Get up, and go DO something! You have an opportunity to be part of a solution, not just another part of a problem!


Not sure what I can do besides what I'm already helping with as I have a job and young son myself and already take care of my elder parents? I also posted to ask if anyone knew of any programs or organizations that might be able to assist them that has dealt with cancer or circumstance as such in the past.

The Friday she had her operation out of town with the specialist and got paralyzed was the same weekend her twin daughters had their 13th birthday and the wife and myself threw them and their friends a birthday party at a local kids joint. Since she was in the hospital during christmas my wife helped with christmas shopping.

Since I work from home and she was brought back home recently, I help the mother when ever she calls me for assistance whether its to pick up the girls , help her move her daughter from the bed to a wheelchair, listen to her vent, help her with decisions and any way that I can when possible.



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 01:06 PM
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It hasn't quite happened yet, but the social acceptance of a person with a terminal illness cashing in their own chips is definitely on the rise. Barring any quick drop in the world's population, not hanging around in pain where the only thing you have in life is treatment could eventually become generally accepted as a positive thing.

People are slowly getting over the notion that all life is precious and should be extended at all costs. It sucks horribly to be sick and outlive your money.

CAROUSEL! RENEW!



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 01:15 PM
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I used to work in the devil's pit.

One of the reasons I left is that medical care is no longer a service, it is a commodity.

I had to look in the mirror every morning and I could no longer do it without tears streaming down my face and an angry heart, because there was no place for me to turn, and it was a constant battle with the insurance carriers and administration.

I screamed from the rafters, I fought tooth and nail, I told everyone, including the State officers, that The ACA was not viable and would be a disaster. I wrote graphs, I went from meeting to meeting, trying to prevent the system from slipping further down hill, to no avail.

I had to quit, because my mind and heart could not take it anymore. People either have to completely clean house or they have to devise a plan B, because our system is headed for a huge belly flop and over half of us are going to drown in the waves.



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

I know we don't often agree on politics but thank you very much for that information and great suggestions I didn't think about.




You haven't said what the father/other relatives are doing -

Thats a whole other mess.

The husband/father is in the picture but not really able to handle the situation or stress. He has a drinking problem and selfish. During the Christmas break he took time off to be with his dying wife and kids. the problem is he didn't and he locked himself in the house for 9 days on a drinking binge. I had to talk him into getting help and go check himself in the hospital so his kids could come back home . The kids were house jumping between my house and other friends houses during this time as they didn't feel safe at home with him.

I finally got him to call 911 as he didn't want me to take him to the hospital to get help and he is back now but its only a matter of time. He even mentioned skipping town.

The brother is a Dentist with a very successful practice who was also diagnosed with throat cancer about a year ago, but is a selfish ahole to be honest and sees the girls as a burden. At the bday party I tried talking to him about him having to step in and help his sister and nieces after she passes but he was completely not concerned about their well being at all , and actually made a comment along the lines if It comes to that and I have too help I guess I will.

He wasn't even going to show up to girls bday party at first. Who does that ? when your sister is out of town dying and your nieces need you the most? He didn't even offer to pay for anything which is ok , but I found it odd as I couldn't imagine doing that if someone else was throwing my nieces a bday for my dying sister . So long story short he is not really involved


The grandfather died of cancer 3 years ago , so it obviously runs in her side of the family. The grandmother is doing the best she can but she is obviously overwhelmed and suffering some from dementia. Although after the husband got cleaned she moved into the house to help eventhough her and the husband don't get along.

So we are just monitoring the situation and helping as much as we can. It really is shocking to see what those girls are going through , it breaks my heart as a father.
edit on 33131America/ChicagoTue, 08 Jan 2019 13:33:34 -0600000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2019 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift
That is the meme they are trying to push. It's eugenics all over. The ONLY reason anybody should terminate themselves is if the quality of life, whether severely disabled or terminally ill, is beyond their reason to cope with. NOT someone else's decision.
The world is NOT overpopulated so come away from the idea we have to "cull" the population.
Your last statement "It sucks horribly to be sick and outlive your money" is a typical American response and is totally devoid of any compassion. MONEY AND HEALTH SHOULD NOT BE USED IN THE SAME SENTENCE.
Have a word (I can't swear on ATS so I can't really put my true words) with your president, your congress people and tell them to stop spending the trillions of dollars on so called defence (when you all know it's for offensive reasons) and start spending it on the people.
Then outlaw ALL medical insurance companies and stem the super money grabbing medical professionals. Don't say it can't be done, it can, it just takes the will.



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