It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: nOraKat
How am I "conflating symbols and purposefully misrepresenting their origins"?
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: nOraKat
How am I "conflating symbols and purposefully misrepresenting their origins"?
By wrongfully claiming the HRE used heraldry when it did not for many centuries ..
..and by not properly attributing that symbol (the eagle) to the Romans who are the obvious contributors.
"This fibulae was used to fasten clothing, such as cloaks. One article says the Visigoths or Goths may have gotten this design from the Romans."
(source)
The earliest depiction of the double-headed eagle can be found on ancient monuments in central Anatolia in the ancient Kingdom of the Hittites. As an example we can mention, a temple devoted to the priestly rituals dedicated to the cult of the two-headed eagle because the Hittites venerated the double headed eagle (also known as the Hittite Bird of the Sun) as the King of Heaven. The bird symbolized the Hittite military power. At the beginning of the early 19th century, excavations conducted by Charles Texier, in an old Hittite capital (Boğazkale) in modern-day Turkey, revealed cylindrical seals depicting two-headed eagle with spread wings. The motif of the double-headed eagle dates back to c. 3800 BC.
(source)
The bird also appears in Lagash, an ancient Sumerian city and was the symbol for Ninurta, son of Enlil and god of the city. The prominent Assyriologist, M. Thureau Dangin writes that a French archaeologist, M. de Sarzec found in the unearthed ruins of a temple, two cylindrical seals. One of these has upon it the recitation of a King, who says: "The waters of the Tigris fell low and the store of provender ran short in this my city." He goes on to tell that this was a visitation of the gods. He, therefore, submitted his case to the divinities of the land. He dreamed, as a result, a holy dream in which there came to him a divine man whose stature towered, (as that of a mighty god in Babylonia should) from earth to heaven and whose head was crowned with the coronet of a god surmounted by the Storm Bird, "that extended its wings over Lagash and the land thereof."
The coats of arms and other devices of England and later the UK were not influenced by the Holy Roman Empire, and any item of similarity is just coincidence.
originally posted by: nOraKat
The HRE did use heraldry. I never said they used it from the beginning. That point would be irrelevant.
I said in my OP-
"This fibulae was used to fasten clothing, such as cloaks. One article says the Visigoths or Goths may have gotten this design from the Romans."
...
I agree. It originates from the Romans
- source
Accordingly, the opening lines of the founding document declared that the society was founded for "whoever desires to serve as a soldier of God[a] to strive especially for the defence and propagation of the faith and for the progress of souls in Christian life and doctrine." Jesuits are thus sometimes referred to colloquially as "God's soldiers", "God's marines", or "the Company", which evolved from references to Ignatius' history as a soldier and the society's commitment to accepting orders anywhere and to endure any conditions.
the Roman Inquisition was responsible for prosecuting individuals accused of committing offenses relating to heresy, including Protestantism, sorcery, immorality, blasphemy, Judaizing and witchcraft, as well as for censorship of printed literature.
The eagle you are showing is a much later adoption..
originally posted by: nOraKat
It is my opinion that the striking resemblance between the coat of arms for Austria, and the Great Seal of the US, is not a mere coincidence, as you believe...
originally posted by: Flanker86
NATO has now become a tool of the EU nobility for the organization of large scale pedophilia , child soldier trafficking, drug trafficking, slave trading, organ trafficking and every imaginable organized criminal activity in the EU and beyond.
Wherever NATO is, it is followed by EU intelligence , which immediately gets to work to ensure that the above mentioned democratic traits of western Europe are successfully exported and in-built into the new nation ...
in short ... a disease spreading in the same way that worst historical epidemics spread in the past.
.... for as long as it could spread ....
originally posted by: nOraKat
It is also used on the cover of Morals and Dogma published in 1871 by the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite.
originally posted by: nOraKat