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Its Starting to Happen in Australia

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posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 07:36 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: mazzroth

The real issue is young people that are disadvantaged and it's a worldwide epidemic not an Aussie one.

Now that is fair.

The reasons for it often seem to stem from crazy Religious leaders of a large sect who supposedly hijacked the prophets intent even though he did say it was ok to rape and plunder for his god if the infidels will not capitulate to them.




Anyone that tries to legitimize their evil behavior using justification from a higher power is a lowlife scumbag and should be outed as such, regardless of their religion.


Yet here in the US we get called "racist" even though there are black /white /yellow and brown Jihadist world wide. It is a sect that needs eradication as bad as the KKK ever did and worse even.




posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 07:39 AM
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a reply to: amraks

Wow, just wow. Those reports speak volumes for those denying it. Why deny the facts? No one can solve something if we deliberately ignore facts and that tactic IS the Communist manifesto game plan.
edit on 9-1-2019 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 08:00 AM
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a reply to: mazzroth


This man is telling the truth and the main stream media paint him a convicted criminal at every turn,


That's because he is a convinced criminal.


Cottrell is a convicted arsonist, and also has criminal convictions in regard to burglary, testosterone smuggling and breaching intervention orders [9]. He served a brief time in prison for these offences.

rationalwiki.org...


it gets worse...:


Cottrell is (it shouldn't surprise by now) a self confessed Neo-Nazi who stated that Mein Kampf should be distributed to all students in state schools, and that images of Adolf Hitler should be erected in all said institutions.[4]

He has also stated that women are incapable of being in positions of leadership, because it is unnatural[5]. According to Cottrell, situations where women are appointed as leaders are always disastrous, and that the end result is the transformation of the young males of into "effeminate little bitches" who ultimately lose their sanity. Cottrell believes that modern feminism is a conspiracy funded by Jewish elites, to take away men's right to use force, which according to him, is the only human right in existence[6]. This is hilarious considering that Cottrell's hatred of leftists and Muslims is rooted in part due to their tendency, in his view, to use force and violence to put forth their rhetoric.

Cottrell is also a raging homophobe, supporting claims that it is "unnatural" and a disease[7]

Cottrell is also a self proclaimed (self proclaimed only!) political philosopher, and operates a Facebook page dedicated to "re-educating" left leaning individuals into becoming far right nationalists, as himself.[8]



Besides other run-ins with the law, in September 2017, UPF leaders Cottrell, Erikson and Shortis, were found guilty by a magistrate of inciting contempt against Muslims, and each was fined $2,000

en.wikipedia.org...


How about you come here to Melbourne before talking nonsense?
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posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 08:05 AM
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originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: mazzroth


Cottrell is also a self proclaimed (self proclaimed only!) political philosopher, and operates a Facebook page dedicated to "re-educating" left leaning individuals into becoming far right nationalists, as himself.[8]




He probably has an account on ATS with so many of his supporters on here, if not he is missing out on a goldmine of people with similar views as himself

edit on 9-1-2019 by UpIsNowDown because: typo



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 08:30 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

Sounds to me like hes an oportunist. Hes taking advantage of Sudanese gangs to spread his ideals. Sadly when imigrants end up causing violence this gives ammunition to the far right. He may be a bad guy but hes not causing the problem hes just trying to profit from it.

I looked at the crime reports Sudanese make up .16 percent of the population. Yet are responsible for 1.07% of the crime. But the biggest problem is that crime is not just petty crime but aggravated burglary and serious assault.

So they are a huge threat to the population when you look at the severity of the crimes. When this happens the easiest way for nazis to recruit is to put them selves as the defenders of the people. So unless politicians start doing something about it they are empowering the nazi party.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 08:30 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

Sounds to me like hes an oportunist. Hes taking advantage of Sudanese gangs to spread his ideals. Sadly when imigrants end up causing violence this gives ammunition to the far right. He may be a bad guy but hes not causing the problem hes just trying to profit from it.

I looked at the crime reports Sudanese make up .16 percent of the population. Yet are responsible for 1.07% of the crime. But the biggest problem is that crime is not just petty crime but aggravated burglary and serious assault.

So they are a huge threat to the population when you look at the severity of the crimes. When this happens the easiest way for nazis to recruit is to put them selves as the defenders of the people. So unless politicians start doing something about it they are empowering the nazi party.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: toms54


I watched that video pretty closely. There weren't any Nazi symbols or sieg heils. Plenty of shots of the crowd. It sounded to me like they were saying Aussie Aussie Aussie not Nazi Nazi Nazi.

You must have some other reason for this post. Is it important to you for some reason that these people are imported into the country? Or are you saying there are no African gangs?


Ummm, I've lived here for several decades. South-Sudanese are over-represented in terms of criminal activity, inclusive of violent criminal activity. However the overwhelming vast majority of violent criminal activity is not perpetrated by the South-Sudanese. Note that the (center-left) government is rolling out more police to fight any rise in criminal activity (which broadly is only somewhat occurring, although it depends over which time-frame you're talking about).

I've traveled a bit. Melbourne is by far one of the safest cities in the world... it is actually astounding to compare this city to others. But:

Number of times I've been assaulted by a Caucasian man: 1
Number of times I've been threatened by a Caucasian man: 2
Number of times I've had a glass bottle miss my head by about 5 cm thrown by a Caucasian man: 1
Number of times I've been assaulted or almost assaulted by anyone else? 0.

(Note, I am of western European descent).

Here is the evidence:


On the face of it, Sudanese immigrants are over-represented in the crime statistics. About 1% of alleged criminal offenders in Victoria in the year ending September 2017 were Sudanese-born, the Victorian Crime Statistics Agency (CSA) says, while the Sudanese and South Sudanese communities together make up just 0.14% of the state’s total population.

The majority of crimes in Victoria, unsurprisingly, are committed by people born in Australia. The second-highest cohort were New Zealanders, which are the fourth-largest migrant group in Victoria.

However, by pulling out particular offences you can highlight certain groups. For example, in charges of riot and affray, people born in Sudan made up 6% of all recorded offenders, compared with 71.5% born in Australia and 5.2% born in New Zealand, a federal parliamentary inquiry reported, citing CSA statistics.

www.theguardian.com...



There are more frontline police now than ever before, with more to hit the roads in coming months, following continued investment by the Andrews Labor Government into Victoria Police.

New employee data released this week by Victoria Police shows there are 1,544 more full time equivalent (FTE) police officers today than there were when the Labor Government came to office.

Victoria now has 14,695 FTE police officers. This represents a 11.7 per cent increase in police numbers over the past three-and-a-half years, with more police to continue to roll out over the next four years.

There are also 286 more Protective Service Officers out in the community working across the public transport network and 394 Police Custody Officers working in stations freeing up police officers for frontline work.

www.premier.vic.gov.au...




Source: www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au...

To be very clear: We need to make sure actively ensure that South-Sudanese are not over-represented in criminal activity (this goes for everyone).

The problem here is we have fascists (convicted criminals who are also self-proclaimed Nazis, who are partially to blame for crime, since they are... criminals) who are trying to use a small issue (which is in the process of being dealt with) for their own political purposes. Sometimes they even instigate unrest, for example, they (Cotrell) went to St. Kilda beach and started filming people of African descent playing soccer, trying to provoke a reaction. We don't need racists harassing people when they are trying to enjoy their time at the beach, I literally cannot think of anything more un-Australian. When this happens we have a serious problem. I have already documented the criminal activity of Cotrell and others.

And politically, rather than work on issues which affect Victorians, the right instead scapegoats minorities, actively promotes discriminatory laws against LGBT people, promotes outdated and uneconomic ways to generate electricity with state funds, starts a postal vote on gay marriage (landslide YES) then doesn't even bother to vote on the outcome, and denies climate change. The right in Australia have been extremely destructive due to their incompetence and yet another leadership spill (removal of democratically elected Prime Minister by their own party with no explanation given to the Australian people) - hence they were wiped out in the Victorian state election (total LANDSLIDE!) and will be wiped out at this years federal election.

Australians don't stand for this kind of nonsense. Conservatives politicians here also don't know anything about PR and blatantly photoshop images of themselves. It's really pathetic and laughable. Conservative politicians (the man with a head shaped like a Potato) here have also stated that parliament is a disadvantage, he is the man who also tried to oust the prime minister, and is also the man in charge of our version of homeland security. He is a fascist, but soon will be voted out.

My only hope is that the conservative party here manage to tear themselves apart. The more scapegoating that occurs the more likely this will happen. I hope it does.

The left by comparison, is actually improving our state.

- Massive improvements to public transport systems, employing Australian workers. It is hard to understate just how beneficial these projects will be.
- Health
- Education
- Jobs
- Energy

Note that I don't vote for this party, I vote for minor parties, but I do acknowledge that Labor has been doing much great work.

This country has also been built by migrants as well, literally everyone except the aboriginals were migrants. I live in the Greek & Italian parts of the city. Note that I am for sustainable growth due to quality of life issues and the fact that immigration is a way to grow GDP whilst incomes stagnate. I just don't like scapegoating.

Note: I keep referring to the "left" and the "right". In truth, the "left" here usually refers to Labor and the Greens. The Right refers to the Liberal National Party (LNP, often referred to as the coalition). LNP has economic conservatives who are often socially liberal (center-right), all the way to economic conservatives who are socially conservative (moderate-right, bordering on far-right). The previous PM was from the LNP party who was a relative centrist (Turnbull), who was ousted by the far-right of the same party (Mr. Potato Head, Peter Dutton, but Scott Morrison (aka SCUMO) became PM), un-democratically, and with no explanation to the Australian people.
edit on 9/1/19 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 09:05 AM
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There are plenty of images online of Nazi slates at this rally as well as Nazi paraphernalia as well. Call them what they are. Nazis.

Note that the media outlet is Australias in the above link is Australias version of Fox News, owned by the same company, ran by the same man who pushes his agenda who isn't even in Australian citizen, complete tosser, and the grip that News Corp has on Australia must end. But even NEWS CORP is uniting against this. Rupert Murdoch is a conservative.


originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: C0bzz

Sounds to me like hes an oportunist. Hes taking advantage of Sudanese gangs to spread his ideals. Sadly when imigrants end up causing violence this gives ammunition to the far right. He may be a bad guy but hes not causing the problem hes just trying to profit from it.

I looked at the crime reports Sudanese make up .16 percent of the population. Yet are responsible for 1.07% of the crime. But the biggest problem is that crime is not just petty crime but aggravated burglary and serious assault.

So they are a huge threat to the population when you look at the severity of the crimes. When this happens the easiest way for nazis to recruit is to put them selves as the defenders of the people. So unless politicians start doing something about it they are empowering the nazi party.


Oh I completely agree. And he is an opportunist, he jumps from one fringe issue to another, to push his ideology. This is 100% what's happening here. It's why it's important to nip crime in the bud quickly and publicly, just so that this stuff doesn't spread.

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posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: pheonix358


But get Aussies upset and whoa, you are in for a fight.


You can count on it.

Do you have any idea how much the LNP party has jerked around Australians the past several years? Now the far-right are taking real problems and using it for their own fascist agenda.

I've highlighted it in my last post. That's why I've gone from center-right to moderately-left in the space of less than year as I've woken up to it.

The far-right (who in truth have also basically hijacked the LNP party) have dun-goofed here, you can bet they're in for a fight.


a reply to: continuousThunder

There's a fantastic Ethiopian & Eritrean resturant in Collingwood, I would highly recommend.

Anyhow, there's a (peaceful) Anti-Fascism & Anti-Nazi protest this Saturday at the place where protests usually happen. Looks like the only thing Cotrell has done is unite Australia against Fascism. I strongly believe in the power of protest.

Can't wait until the landslide at the Federal Election this year. The State Election was only the beginning. I want to eat conservatives and it looks like we're making it happen.
But, we cannot assume we will win, like those stupid American Democrats did, hence we need to fight as hard as we can.
edit on 9/1/19 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/1/19 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: amraks

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: soundguy
Are the wanna be nazis having a sad because they are being called out for what they are? a reply to: mazzroth





The only reason this made the news is because one of our politicians was there at the protest and has been called out for it.


Look at the poll and tell Me there is no problem with African Gangs when a majority of Australia can see it.


I live in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne and can tell you it's rare to even see a African person, let alone ever witness any criminal behaviour by them. Although, my Dad until recently did own a hotel in Footscray and has some crazy stories about the issues he had with Sudanese refugees.

But Guess what? The western suburbs have always been a total s# hole... long before the Sudanese refugees ever started rocking up.


Why arent you guys letting more in? And why are you letting them live in the s#hole areas?!


I'm not sure I entirely understand your question.

But I will say that I don't personally have the authority to let anybody do anything... I'm just simply a humble Melburnian factory worker, living in the outer Eastern burbs.

Maybe your questions would be better directed at one of our elected officials... lol.

Also, I was probably being a little melodramatic with the 'hole area' comment... Despite what the media and certain far right groups would have you believe, about the out of control African immigrants and apparent gang wars between the vietnamese & Sudanese... Melbourne as a whole, is still an incredibly safe place to live.

Like any other city in the world, obviously we have highly industrialized areas, with a large amount of cheap & government housing properties, which obviously tend to attract people of a lower economical status.

But, as far as I know, we really don't have any notoriously dangerous 'boyz in da hood' Compton type areas, like in the States.

For the most part, I think this whole "immigrant gang" so called epidemic has been totally blown out of proportion... A case of media induced hysteria.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Justoneman

god be with us all in the western societies not the indigenous people we massacred to create a nation built on rape , genocide and illusion



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: mazzroth

Make Australia Great Again!



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: mazzroth

The real issue is young people that are disadvantaged and it's a worldwide epidemic not an Aussie one.

Now that is fair.

The reasons for it often seem to stem from crazy Religious leaders of a large sect who supposedly hijacked the prophets intent even though he did say it was ok to rape and plunder for his god if the infidels will not capitulate to them.




Anyone that tries to legitimize their evil behavior using justification from a higher power is a lowlife scumbag and should be outed as such, regardless of their religion.


Yet here in the US we get called "racist" even though there are black /white /yellow and brown Jihadist world wide. It is a sect that needs eradication as bad as the KKK ever did and worse even.




Yeah it's a sad state of affairs, the people of this world are losing the plot .

I can't believe that low life knuckle draggers like the man in the OP Blair Cantrell are being glorified, this movement of extremist anti migrant rhetoric is on the increase since cheetolini came to office, the very same people rush to defense of another knuckledragger Tommy Robinson... Like seriously that's some really brainless xenophobia to reach this point.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: magnetik
a reply to: Justoneman

god be with us all in the western societies not the indigenous people we massacred to create a nation built on rape , genocide and illusion


This society we are etching out now is trying to create fairness for all. Are you against trying to do that?

The indigenous people are now here for 200 + years the ones before that were here a few thousand years and the ones before that a few more thousand years. WHY? Because moving to places to create an existence is how the human species have to do it to survive.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: mazzroth
Well after watching that first vid and this one. I got to say, the ideals that guy talks about are quote on quote NAZI.

That is the National Socialist ideal. One of the main being nationalizing resources, being one such thing, a few countries this worked the workers union, likely the most recent and famous nationalizing there resources being Saudi Arabi, its why they got money to gold plate there honda civics, and why you will never become a citizen of Saudi, but you sure can work for them for a while.

Most other nations are variations of privatization of national resources, which just means corporations and big wigs have free reign and dictate the rules.

Its the same ol thing from 1940s really.

Personal I think the resources of Australia or any nation or country, belong to whoever can get them, which is generally the people with the most and best weapons, when it really comes down to it. Most likely China in the case of Australia, as they have massive investments there, and yes they do operate on a profit workers margin, as does every other global corporation. So the guy could be right, in time cheap labor is the name of the game, its how you move wealth to the top, and most times capitalism and communism even socialism are the same thing, its just that people use different names for them.

But if this is a workers revolution, things must be going bad even if its a small gathering. Which I suppose may be another reason why we need to secure the borders, it may be that in a generation or two we will have Australians coming here in droves. They would have to go to Mexico first. But still.

Ultimately it was the same thing in 1940s Germany when Hitler came to power, only more so after the whole WW1 sanctions thing. And the whole German for Germans thing, workers party unite happened. The same thing happened in Russia its how the communists came to power, the same time and by the same route that the NAZI's came in power, and in fact same sort of thing happened in America, the workers united, to build tanks and planes for the war in the name of capitalism.

In the end its like the whole trinity of the Abraham religions, they believe in the same god, but you know, they wear different funny hats.

If they got people gathering for this sort of stuff. Then they got issues in Australia. Most unfounded fears do not come to any sort of fruition. So we shall see.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: continuousThunder


Here's the thing, I can't speak for Australia currently, but here in the US there is a ton of media hyperbole and propaganda that many conservative-esque rallies, which don't appear to be "Nazi" or racist, are so.

Also, many so-called Antifa folks are showing up to things to "bash the fash" and also shut down OTHER people's speech. That's not liberal, that's fascistic.

Then here in the US we have people suddenly blindly apologizing for the FBI and CIA because Trump questioned them, two organizations that not only targeted civil rights and anti war groups in the past, but also were widely condemned by actual leftists for these actions and the CIA's actions abroad.


When you add in that the CIA/NSA engages in mass surveillance which is also along the "totalitarian tip toe," who is acting like the fascists right now?


I'm legitimately unsure.


That's why people are questioning your claims and the media coverage.


Now, your claims could be true in this circumstance, of course.



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 10:19 PM
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a reply to: continuousThunder


Well, first, how do you know, or we know, your gfriend is telling the truth with this story.

Second, I'm seeing some poor logic here.

To paraphrase you a bit:

1) Actual nazis have said bad things about or done bad things to Jews or other groups (true).

2) This group is claimed to be nazi by the media or your girlfriend.

3) Therefore this group is beating up and telling my girlfriend she should be exterminated, and this group is literally nazis.

4) Anybody questioning this must therefore support nazis.

Do you not see how this is poor critical thinking at best, or dishonest?

Most people including myself are against actual nazis, supremacists, and similar folks. THe problem is that many lefties right now, and much of the media, are labelling virtually everything they disagree with as "fascism," "racism," "hate speech," etc.

edit on 9-1-2019 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2019 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: C0bzz

Shocked to hear you claim your just left of centre,to me it appears you are well left.

Like England and America lefties have taken the fascist highroad in Australia and claim anybody who dosent agree with them as far-right.The state of Victoria could be compared to California without the good weather.

Blair Cotrell is a very minor aspect of australian society,nobody actually listens to him even though some of his policies are good the rest are ridiculous.Everybody knows this,but the media love to roll him out.

To my mind, this protest and general discomfort against the sudanese 'youths' is due to the minority bias shown by the Victorian police.These 'youths' ,gangs show up from time to time in australia.The aussie public expects the police to deal with it.In this case it appears the leftie state government and police have been to lenient.

The supposed counter protests are the usual antifa type, dimly witted,found mainly in the Victorian state of liberal regression.



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 02:50 AM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14


Well, first, how do you know, or we know, your gfriend is telling the truth with this story.


This is the internet.

Continued...:

a reply to: Brad63

It's well known that there are broadly two factions within the LNP. Social conservatives and social moderates. Both Tony Abbott and Peter Dutton fall into the former group and are without a doubt as far right as you can go before you start reaching fringe territory. Both have caused significant damage to faith in the LNP and our democratic systems due to their constant lies and political instability they have caused. Both are career politicians who will do and say anything to get into power.

Peter Dutton is in charge of department of homeland affairs and has created numerous scandals such:

i. Used his powers to spy on a Greens Senator. He then accused the Greens senator of lying about it, before Immigration Department and Wilson Security admitted to it.
ii. Letting domestic assistants into Australia on tourist VISAs by interfering with the system because of pressure from a CEO.
iii. Joked about Pacific Islands going underwater due to rising sea-levels.
iv. Claimed that Victorians are afraid to go out at night when we're not by over-inflating the problem with so called "gangs".
v. Claims that parliament is a disadvantage for government.

In terms of policies he:

i. Supports negative gearing which provides tax breaks for land owners such as himself,
ii. Obsesses over power prices when the price of electricity is already declining, mainly due to the LRET,
iii. Obsesses over national security, based on the lie that Victorians are afraid to go out at night (for example),
iv. Was voted worst health minister in 35 years by 46% of respondents by Australian Doctor magazine.
v. Started the leadership challenge which lead to the 6th new PM since 2007, without an election.

His party also ignores evidence on Global Warming, then proceeds to blame renewables for blackouts thus denying engineering reports into the issue, and supports using government to subsidize coal power stations, even though his party privatized the electricity sector, and coal now being uneconomical. LNP also supported a motion called "It's OK to be white", without knowing what it means or how it originated. LNP support the destruction of organised labour. The LNP PM called peaceful protests "riots" and told them to go back to school, even though their policies screw over young people. There is evidence that News Corp and LNP have colluded. He voted yes for gay marriage thankfully, but not in good faith, and the record of the LNP with regard to LNP rights is simply terrible:

1. The Liberal Party banned marriage equality in the first place,
2. The Liberal Party refused to allow Australians to marry overseas,
3. The Liberal Party voted against marriage equality in September 2012,
4. The Liberal Party refused to hold a parliamentary vote on marriage equality,
5. The Liberal Party challenged the ACT’s same-sex marriage laws,
6. The Liberal Party proposed an unnecessary, wasteful, harmful and divisive plebiscite,
7. The Liberal Party held an unnecessary, wasteful, harmful and divisive postal survey,
8. The Liberal Party didn’t actually pass marriage equality,
9. The majority of Liberal Party MPs and Senators voted for even more discrimination,
10. Even after the postal survey, a significant minority of Liberal Party MPs and Senators voted against same-sex marriage.

Today the LNP won't get rid of outdated laws that allow Catholic Schools to discriminate against LGBT students and teachers, but note that these same private schools receive considerable taxpayer support. Why are my tax dollars funding discrimination of LGBT people? Note that the PM is Catholic.

The right-faction of the LNP are highly reactionary. They support expanding the national security apparatus based on exaggerating claims. They support policies which directly benefit those in power already whether it be the coal industry, land-owners, or CEOs. They support the destruction of organized labour. They support discrimination (not just being against "affirmative action", but actual discrimination) against minorities like LGBT people. They support a strict social structure and seem to be okay with using the state to enforce it.

When they do that, then there are people who are going to call them fascists, because they're kind of a fascism-lite.

No, the fascists aren't the kids who march down Swanston St with some signs. Swanston St doesn't even have cars on it. No, the fascists aren't those who counter-protest a few hundred meters away from people like Cotrell.

I suppose my terminology could have been better, I am left but not far-left. Alternatively I describe myself as being on the right side of the Greens or slightly left of Labor. I would actually have happily voted for Turnbull, if he didn't have the social conservatives manipulating his every move.
edit on 10/1/19 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2019 @ 06:38 AM
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originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: pheonix358


But get Aussies upset and whoa, you are in for a fight.


You can count on it.

Now the far-right are taking real problems and using it for their own fascist agenda.


Yes We live in the REAL WORLD and see the REAL PROBLEMS. Yes We use them for political reasons because we can't stand by and watch the destruction like it or not we haven't got our head buried in the sand.




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