The Bible is True

a reply to: Xenogears

People say a lot of things. LoL

The fact of the matter is through that they have done a hell of a lot worse than just bump their gums over the span of recorded history.......and all in the name of God.

a reply to: Toolman18

Guess it depends on one's characterization of just what or who God is/was, however. I too believe there are 'creatures' on the planet that could not have evolved through the evolution concept (google Bombardier Beetle and try to figure out how evolution would have resulted in something combining inside the beetle creating hot gases which then come out of the beetle's butt, scalding preditors), however.

Thinking about your headline of the 'Bible is True', I then have to use your statement "I will never take someone seriously if they..." and add "...believe some of the outrageous statements in the bible, some 700+ being..."

Weirdness (inconsistencies) in the Bible

a reply to: Murgatroid

The Bible is ""AUTHORED"" by Man, with all his fear and fallibility at play.

God had exactly zero input, and nothing to do with the collection of religious dogma, in its entirety, whatsoever.

originally posted by: Toolman18
youtu.be...


I will never take someone seriously if they say God doesn't exist.

"God exists" and "the Bible is true" do not mean the same thing.

Totally agree. Just look around at the world. Everywhere I look I see undeniable proof of the existence of Zeus.

a reply to: usernameconspiracy

If God does exist he speaks in mathematics.

a reply to: andy06shake

Mathematically speaking, the odds of Scripture NOT being a divine document are statistically nonexistent.

Borel's law and the laws of probability back it up as well...

Over a quarter of all the verses in the Bible contain a prediction about the future. Altogether, 737 separate forecasts are made, from some only mentioned once, to others mentioned hundreds of times.

Of these, 594 (over 80%) have already come true. Since those that have not, are all concerned with the end of the world, which obviously has not happened yet, the Bible has actually achieved 100% accuracy. All that could have taken place already has done so, which should be ample grounds for confidence that the rest will also be fulfilled. www.danielpipes.org...

"Perhaps the most compelling of evidences demonstrating that the Bible is the word of God is its unswerving ability to accurately predict future events, often in minute details. Specific prophesies are conspicuously absent from the 26 other religious books that claim to be scripture, including the Muslim's Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, and Buddhist writings. This in itself should be a major eye-opener to the honest skeptic. " Accuracy Of Prophecy

Professor Emeritus of Science at Westmont College, Peter Stoner, has calculated the probability of one man fulfilling the major prophecies made concerning the Messiah. The estimates were worked out by twelve different classes representing some 600 university students.

After examining only eight different prophecies (Idem, 106), they conservatively estimated that the chance of one man fulfilling all eight prophecies was one in 10^17.

Mathematical Probability that Jesus is the Christ

Another attestation to the Bible’s divine authorship is the vast number of detailed biblical prophecies that have come true exactly as foretold. We see the psalmist, for example, telling of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ nearly a thousand years before it occurred (Psalm 22), and hundreds of years before crucifixion was even invented! Simply put, it would be impossible for human beings to have seen so far into the future with such precision and accuracy hundreds of times. Indeed, it would be completely illogical to believe these proven prophecies are anything other than the work of God. Incidentally, and amazingly, probability experts tell us the mathematical odds of just forty-eight prophecies regarding one person (i.e. Christ) coming true as foretold are one in ten to the 157th power!

Is the Bible a fairy tale?

The chances of just 48 out of the 456 prophecies being fulfilled in one person are 1 in 10 to the 157 power.

That's — 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

"All this illustrates why it is absolutely impossible for anyone to have fulfilled the Messianic prophecies by chance. In fact, a leading authority on the probability theory, Emile Borel states that once we go past one chance in 10 to the 50th power, the probabilities are so small it's impossible to think they will ever occur."

LINK

"...once we go past one chance in 10 to the 50th power, the probabilities are so small it's impossible to think they will ever occur....Mathematicians generally agree that, statistically, any odds beyond 1 in 1050 have a zero probability of ever happening.... This is Borel's law in action which was derived by mathematician Emil Borel....

Here is one last illustration of the immensity of the number 10 to the 157th power and why the science of probability shows we are dealing with the miraculous… Imagine one ant traveling at the speed of only one inch every 15 billion years. If he could only carry one atom at a time, how many atoms could he move in 10 to the 157th power of years?

He would, even at that incredibly slow speed, be able to move all the atoms in 600,000 trillion trillion trillion trillion universes the size for our universe, a distance of 30 billion light years! Again, by the laws of probability, all of this means that it is simply impossible for 48 prophecies to be fulfilled by chance. LINK

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: narrator
I've seen zero proof of a god, any god. Why should I believe in something I've never seen any proof of?

One cannot see that which he knows doesn't exist...

Egypt's Pharaoh once asked for proof: 'Prove yourselves by working a miracle'

Look where it got HIM...

Proof would not change YOU any more than it did Pharaoh.

All the proof in the world will do NOTHING for you.

The Israelite's in the wilderness saw more proof than anyone in history:

A pillar of cloud and fire, parting of the Red Sea, manna, water from a rock, etc.

They STILL refused to trust Him...

It is only through faith in Jesus that we come to God. In fact, without faith, we can not please God.

If you REALLY wanted proof, you would trust and seek God and He would give you more proof than you know what to do with.

God has revealed Himself to everyone...

NO one is inexcusable just because they say they don’t believe in Him.

Melisa: But surely no one would choose that if they knew you really existed?

Jesus: Not so, nobody goes into hell blindfolded. In one way or another, I've revealed myself to everyone.

Melisa: But if they could just see you...

Jesus: Not even that would be enough. Look at satan, he stood before me in the very throne room of God. But he thought the beauty and the power bestowed was somehow earned. Gave himself over to pride. Scratch any sin and just below the surface you'll find pride...

Jesus: "I'm a gentleman Nick, I'll never force myself on you or anyone. Nick, what would be more unjust and unfair, for me to steal you at the moment of your death and force you to live in my presence and in my will for all eternity. Hell on the other hand is a place where you'll be completely free from all of my "though shalt nots"... FOREVER."

Source: The Encounter

As to those who live in tribes without God’s Word, God has revealed Himself in the hearts of all men. Through general revelation, man can sense God’s existence and see His power. www.tillhecomes.org...

originally posted by: 547000
If you don't try to find God yourself you will not believe the people who have found God as having valid reasons in believing. In your mind you'll rationalize it as "a crutch" or "delusions". Also you won't find God unless your pride has been sucked out of you and turn to Him. I certainly know that when I was an atheist I always asked such things and debated theists not because I truly wanted to find Him, but had other not so noble or intellectually honest reasons. God is near the broken-hearted, or so scriptures say, and from my experiences that is true. It wasn't until I found Him I realized how utterly fallible human wisdom is.

The trailer for a movie is not a valid reason to have faith in anything. If that were the case, I'd prefer Morgan Freeman as god (Bruce Almighty), as he seemed like a god that would at least be a decent person.

"It is only through faith in Jesus that we come to God. In fact, without faith, we can not please God."
So by that, you mean...there is no scientific basis for a god, but you better believe in him anyway or he'll be pissed.
Why do we need to please god? Sometimes creators (parents, for example) are jerks and should be ignored. Why should I try to please a person I've never met, or have any evidence of?

The Israelites saw that "proof" thousands of years ago. Why should I believe their account of things? By that logic, sasquatch 100% exists, because first nations people have written accounts of it existing. Are you certain that sasquatch exists? And aliens? And the Loch Ness Monster? If not, why does the logic apply to god, but not everything else that has written accounts from hundreds of years ago?

Proof most certainly would change me. If I were walking through the woods, the clouds parted, and a big bearded dude slowly descended to the ground in front of me and, with a big booming voice, declared that he was god, I'd be much more inclined to believe in him.

A book that was written thousands of years ago is not a form of proof to me, or even a reason to believe in him/have faith in him.

"It wasn't until I found Him I realized how utterly fallible human wisdom is."
I realize that right now, without god. Human wisdom is incredibly fallible, we are proven wrong all the time. And, that applies to the human wisdom that tells you that god exists. That wisdom that you hold could be fallible, i.e., god might not exist. You could be wrong. I'm not necessarily saying you are, but you could be. So could I.

I'm A-ok with you believing in whatever god you want to believe in. I'm also A-ok with me not holding the same belief. I don't need a god in my life to have an incredibly fulfilling, happy existence. I've gone without a belief in a higher power for decades now, and I'm doing just fine.
I prefer to put my faith/love/etc towards my family and friends, people I've actually encountered and spent time with, rather than a guy I've never met that people tell me I should believe in or I'll be punished.

Bottom line, believe in whatever you want to believe in, but don't push your beliefs onto others as being the only true belief. How do you know that you're right? Not believe that you're right, or feel that you're right, or have faith that you're right. How do you KNOW? And even if you do know, it's not your right to push beliefs onto others. Let others believe whatever they want.
Just remember: You could be wrong. We all could be wrong.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Yes but most of that is whats called self-fulfilling prophecy and down to positive feedback between belief and behaviour that supports the prophecy.

Like i said there have been many religions before Christianity came about, shes just a collection and/or rehash of what came before, so not son worship, but Sun worship.

The Bible makes about as much sense as a flat Earth or a Chocolate Teapot.

Gods that punish us for all eternity in a pit of hellfire because we don't do or think as they want nor wish?

Gods that are omnipotent yet demand our attendance and admiration not to mention our monies?

Really??? LoL

This is awesome!

I love the fact this became the #1 topic!



This is a great debate

I feel alot of people are really starting to wake up!!!

Just remember my brothers and sisters.

(The bible, is not GOD!!!).

GOD is not invisible, GOD is everywhere!!!

Listen to your heart

GOD is so much bigger and complex then we can possibly begin to imagine.

But he is your Father no matter what, all of you, and he loves you so much, even if you dont love him.

Close your mouth, Open your eyes, open your ears

It's funny to me, to hear the people that think & act like they know it all

I think the point the OP was trying to make was you have to be completely brainwashed, clueless, and asleep. To think there is (nothing)? No kind of creator at all? No higher power in existence period?

Even if you don't believe in a certain "GOD" it's hard for me to imagine just the human brain and body (let alone the whole universe and everything in it) not having a creator? No way as complex as we are, we are just here by accident and coincidence.

And to believe in nothing and no life after death? Who would want to live like that? That concept alone makes no since to me "nothing" what is "nothing"?

Science and GOD can go together!!! GOD was the very first scientist actually

But come on, the people that try to discredit GOD with man's understanding of science LOL

I mean really? Even our "Scientific facts" changes every 100 years or so lol now even more frequently. Why?

Maybe because people are starting to WAKE UP!!!

Even some modern time, more intelligent scientists. are starting to think outside the box more. Which has paved the way for new scientific discoveries

Ok I think I got it all out

originally posted by: narrator

Bottom line, believe in whatever you want to believe in, but don't push your beliefs onto others as being the only true belief. How do you know that you're right? Not believe that you're right, or feel that you're right, or have faith that you're right. How do you KNOW? And even if you do know, it's not your right to push beliefs onto others. Let others believe whatever they want.
Just remember: You could be wrong. We all could be wrong.

Because someone came and conquered death and invited others to follow along with him. His philosophy entirely matches the truths I have come to realize about this world and my self.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Murgatroid


Gods that are omnipotent yet demand our attendance and admiration not to mention our monies?

This is a juvenile interpretation. Since God is the utmost ideal and perfection, by seeking him we too become our utmost ideal and perfect self. To ignore God is to ignore God's plan... which would be dumb because God's plan is far better than anything we could contrive from our limited perspective.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: usernameconspiracy

If God does exist he speaks in mathematics.

his heart and soul are mathematical truth.

a reply to: cooperton

Christianity is a juvenile interpretation of religion in general.

Its a baby by comparison to say the likes of Hinduism or Zoroastrianism.

It's the little brother of Judaism, Abrahamic by nature, and just like all the rest chock full of contradiction and control constructs designed to facilitate the priest cast and keep the status quo in place.

But all that ""juvenile interpretation"" aside, why does the big omnipotent dude want our monies again? LoL

We hint, perspective is indeed the key, your perspective that is, not Gods.

All religions are man made.

All denominations are man made

The holy bible it self is man made

The Koran is man made

all books are man made for that matter!

NONE! of this means, there is no GOD, Creator, Grand Designer, higher power, or as I know him Father. Whatever you want to call him

He's there and you know it

Thats one of, and probably the most profound reason. Why this topic is, always has, and always will be (just like him) the #1 topic to discuss, the worlds biggest debate. And the most controversial subject ever

Always Love and be happy

Treat others as you want to be treated

a reply to: Xenogears

If his heart or soul are connected or concerned with say the likes of Phi, Pi, G , with such fundamental underlying intrinsic values and principles at play, and encoded into the very fabric of our reality, then i agree.

originally posted by: narrator
Bottom line, believe in whatever you want to believe in, but don't push your beliefs onto others as being the only true belief. How do you know that you're right? Not believe that you're right, or feel that you're right, or have faith that you're right. How do you KNOW? And even if you do know, it's not your right to push beliefs onto others. Let others believe whatever they want. Just remember: You could be wrong. We all could be wrong.

VERY compelling reply, sad that most would never take as much time & effort as you did to reply...

I will respond briefly because I'm about out of time here right now but you mentioned a few things that really caught my eye.

Very interesting that you asked: "How do you KNOW?"

Why? Because for whatever reason, you are speaking to someone that DOES in fact know, it would take more time than I have right now to explain WHY I know, but I will say this, speaking from experience, I guarantee that if you EVER reach the point in your life where absolute mind blowing miracles begin to occur in your life on a regular basis, you will no longer believe, you WILL know.

This is NOT meant to convince or make my case here, I'm just sayin'... miracles have a funny way of changing ones perspective...

You mentioned that it's not my right to push beliefs onto others and it goes right back to what I just said above, I can totally relate to that because I happen to be someone who hates deception with a passion, ESPECIALLY the religious kind.

If these WERE just beliefs I was pushing you might be right but what if instead of beliefs they were facts instead?

So don't be so hard on someone who appears to be pushing beliefs onto others when in reality they may simply be passing on what they themselves know to be true by years of personal experience.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: cooperton

Its a baby by comparison to say the likes of Hinduism or Zoroastrianism.

Not so much. Krishna died without resurrection. Zoroaster died without resurrection. They were prophets that spoke of the Most High doctrine, but were not the full manifestation of the Most High.

a reply to: DustybudzZ

"NONE! of this means, there is no GOD, Creator, Grand Designer, higher power, or as I know him Father. Whatever you want to call him"

He's there and i know it? I just said i know he's not, stop putting words in ma food hole

I have a few questions for you then:
Do you think this creator intervenes in our lives?
Do you think if you are good you will live your afterlife with this creator/designer/programmer in peace?
What is the point of this creator? ( Besides you know, initially creating everything )

For so long people have had to be content with unanswered prayers, they knew not how to pray, for so long content with dead texts and sheer ideas, content with only a spiritual, but not a physical connection with the divine.

The time is come for the divine and the material to mingle, for the true kingdom of god, for perfection of life to dwell among us.

With the heart of all mathematics, the final algorithm, and control of the molecular machinery of life, a new age will dawn upon the world, the flesh of the existing world will be no more, and the ideal world will be given flesh.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: narrator

Bottom line, believe in whatever you want to believe in, but don't push your beliefs onto others as being the only true belief. How do you know that you're right? Not believe that you're right, or feel that you're right, or have faith that you're right. How do you KNOW? And even if you do know, it's not your right to push beliefs onto others. Let others believe whatever they want.
Just remember: You could be wrong. We all could be wrong.

Because someone came and conquered death and invited others to follow along with him. His philosophy entirely matches the truths I have come to realize about this world and my self.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Murgatroid


Gods that are omnipotent yet demand our attendance and admiration not to mention our monies?

This is a juvenile interpretation. Since God is the utmost ideal and perfection, by seeking him we too become our utmost ideal and perfect self. To ignore God is to ignore God's plan... which would be dumb because God's plan is far better than anything we could contrive from our limited perspective.

Again, you are welcome to BELIEVE whatever you want. My argument is, you can't technically KNOW that happened.

It's awesome that his philosophy matches yours. But it doesn't match mine, so I'm not going to follow it. And you (or any other Christian) don't have the right to try to force that philosophy onto me. Just saying. I'm not forcing my beliefs onto you or anyone else, and I expect the same courtesy from you.

God is not the utmost ideal and perfection, to me. If he is to you, great. But I disagree with a lot of things god has supposedly said and done, so I choose to not follow the Christian path, as I don't want to worship something that has done so many things that go against what I feel to be important.

It isn't dumb to ignore god and god's plan. It's just a different path than the one you've chosen. Let people make their own choices, don't tell them they're dumb because they don't believe what you believe. That, by definition, is persecution. Something I'm pretty sure Jesus said isn't a good thing to do.