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The semantic game of socialists and other thoughts

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posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:01 PM
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a reply to: amazing



There has to be a reason for that.


There is and I gave it you. Add in their natural oil resources and bingo.




posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: Grambler

I think the problem is that when people like Sanders and Cortez and whomever are talking about Democratic Socialism or anything like that, they're mainly refering to countries like the Scandinavian countries and all the programs that work well there. Those countries aren't dictatorships and the citizens aren't suffering at all. Those countries in many regards are flourishing with very happy citizens.

We confuse this with Argentina and actual Socialist dictators. They're completely different things.

Keeping in mind that there is no such thing as Utopia.

It would be great if we all lived under a libertarian regime with very low taxes, now over reaching laws, small government, where everyone helped each other just because we had a great sense of community and there were no criminals.

But the socialism comes in when. We need a police force because we have too many criminals. We need a jail and then a prison to house them in. We need some programs to rehabilitate them for when they come out, and then we have to do something with all the old people lying there dying on the street who have no family to help them, because decaying bodies ont he sidewalk...oh wait, we would like to pool some money together to build a road but...etc.


The Scandanavian countries are not Socialist. And haven't been for decades, that is a big massive lie thaf the left uses to prop up their argument.

Too bad it's not true.

Socialist aspects? Yes. But not in any way "Socialist" as the left means it. The S. American socialist examples however are. And that's why they are all failures and now swinging to the right.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: Propagandalf

Powerful picture



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:05 PM
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"Scandinavian" Socialism is failing too.

Don't let the MSM tell you different.

BS is BS any way you look at it 😁



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: Carcharadon

Maybe they're just "controlled capitalism" with better hidden corruption 🤣🐔



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:13 PM
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The socialism label gets thrown around where convenient throughout history. It's hard to call yourself a socialist because there's peaceful, productive socialism and violent, extreme socialism. There's democratic socialism and dictatorial socialism, peaceful and aggressive. All someone has to do is see or hear the word socialist or socialism and it prompt a thought, memory, or opinion based on bad examples of it to be prejudice to you, have contempt for you, or argue anything you say on principle and merit. Because.. communist in a nice suit.

I think what it boils down to is socialism means what's best for a majority of the citizens as well as the citizens most in need, the collective citizenry as a family from wealthiest to poorest. Free healthcare for everyone, food programs, welfare programs, abortion, etc are all what's best for a majority. The problem is who is going to pay for it, correct? Yet, I've never, ever seen a conservative say that if our country and system were prospering greatly with enough excess wealth that they'd be okay with programs like those and that ultimately they'd be what's best but that it's grossly or dangerously wrong to attempt to institute for decades, even centuries, anything. They really give the impression that if the upper 10% had an average of $5 billion per person per year and the lower 50% had less than $20k per year with the lowest 25%, half of those, having under $10k per year, that assistance on the level it's at even currently would be or should be given to all citizens of the United States of America. People could be doing the burn a $100 bill with your face covered challenge on Facebook while twice as many Americans as are currently would be homeless, starving, dying in public.

edit on 1/4/2019 by r0xor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:13 PM
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a reply to: amazing

I hear what you are saying and we both know the answer. Is it right or wrong? Should the natural resources be the property of the local community? Local state? Local country? Just think if oil is a renewable resource that replenishes itself. Maybe that is a discussion for another thread.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: amazing

Precisely.
As Grambler said they use symantics and the phonetic similarities to try and sneak through their militant socialism ideas.

The Nordic countries largely have what they call socialized democracy. Pretty much capitalism as far as private business goes. They just have massive social services relative to the population.

They also fail to realize that those countries are extremely small (about the population of New Jersey)

They are extremely strict with immigration. And are about 90 - 95% ethnically Scandinavian.

Their economies are also largely dependent upon fossil fuel extraction. (which would be blasphemous to the new green deal)

Any reasonable person should be able to see that comparing this current attempt at socializing the US to the Scandinavian countries is absurd.
edit on 4-1-2019 by watchitburn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: ClovenSky

The thing is that very often roads, police and those things are small, locally controlled programs. What Podunk Junction chooses to do with its garbage collection program does not affect what Tampa decides to do or vice versa. In that type of environment, programs can be tailored to better fit the needs of the specific areas they serve. The larger they get, the less responsive they are and the more room there is for corruption.

The sorts of things most of the socialists want is total and across the board -- nationawide, not just small programs at a localized level.

They never address the mess that we already have in our education program which is exactly the type of program they advocate for, and they constantly whine about the waste in the military which is another program of the sort they advocate for.

If we can't get those two things right ... then why on earth are they so convinced more of it is the answer? That's the thing that always floors me.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:36 PM
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The biggest problem 90% of ATS has is nobody here understands what socialism actually is, and how it works.

They'd be shocked to hear that America itself already has many socialist principles in place. And the world hasn't ended, instead, you have fire engines and roads and police and teachers and things.


Some European countries are more socialist, and they have free education and healthcare too. And shock horror, they haven't turned into Venezuela or Stalin's Russia! Which must seem impossible to many of the regular ATS commentators who don't understand anything about socialism.


The problem is people on the right, as ATS is these days, get their ideas about what socialism is from the billionaires and elites that own and run their favourite media outlets - Fox, Brietbart, RT, etc, etc. And weirdly enough these billionaires spend fortunes putting out the concept that socialism is always evil.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: Painterz

Funny both my op and video say exactly this, that most countries are a mix of free markets and socialism

Some more socialist than others

And yet things like the new green deal go beyond that to almost total socialism



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: Painterz

But that's not what leftists are trying to implement or reinforce. You're being purposely disingenuous.

They are trying to implement full govt control over every aspect our personal lives, the economy and business.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:42 PM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: amazing



They are extremely strict with immigration. And are about 90 - 95% ethnically Scandinavian.

Their economies are also largely dependent upon fossil fuel extraction. (which would be blasphemous to the new green deal)

Any reasonable person should be able to see that comparing this current attempt at socializing the US to the Scandinavian countries is absurd.



Actually energy only makes up 7% of Sweden's exports.


Vehicles and machines are the largest sectors. Them pharmaceuticals, electronics, minerals, wood products, and then energy exports, some of which is renewables rather than oil based. (Don't know the precise numbers.)



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Wow, well stated and articulated. I just get tired of discussing with people who are for socialism and they always pull out the local stuff that actually works. Getting them to understand the larger the program, the more it will suck, is nigh impossible. Just trying to figure out a new method. Thank you for the addition discussion points. I have a feeling it will be completely lost on the proponents of full blown socialism.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Painterz

But that's not what leftists are trying to implement or reinforce. You're being purposely disingenuous.

They are trying to implement full govt control over every aspect our personal lives, the economy and business.


It's called communism.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Painterz

But that's not what leftists are trying to implement or reinforce. You're being purposely disingenuous.

They are trying to implement full govt control over every aspect our personal lives, the economy and business.



But leftists in Europe and America are not trying to implement full govt control over every aspect of peoples lives/economy/business.

Not even Corbyn in the UK wants to do that.

But the far-right billionaires who own the papers keep telling you that this is what they want to do. I'm not the one being disingenuous here. Go look at parties of the left's manifestos, you won't find sinister plans to take full government control over your life.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: ketsuko

Wow, well stated and articulated. I just get tired of discussing with people who are for socialism and they always pull out the local stuff that actually works. Getting them to understand the larger the program, the more it will suck, is nigh impossible. Just trying to figure out a new method. Thank you for the addition discussion points. I have a feeling it will be completely lost on the proponents of full blown socialism.



The NHS is one of the biggest socialised systems in the world. It provides world class free at point of care healthcare, and is one of the most cost efficient systems in the world.


Your statement that the larger the program the more it will suck is thus demonstrated to be false.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 07:17 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Painterz

But that's not what leftists are trying to implement or reinforce. You're being purposely disingenuous.

They are trying to implement full govt control over every aspect our personal lives, the economy and business.


It's called communism.


Bullsnip.

Communism is a classless, moneyless, stateless utopia.

It is not a system to be implemented, but rather a goal to be obtained.

The Incas were the closest thing to communism this world has ever seen.

No one else has even come close.


edit on 4-1-2019 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: Painterz

Name one socialist principle America has.



posted on Jan, 4 2019 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Unless people are calling for the complete demise of capitalism or that the means of production is entirely handed over to the workers, then it's nothing like "total socialism". What we have is more like a top-down capitalist nation employing a few elements of socialism so the populous isn't completely cast aside by the dog-eat-dog winner-take-all approach that pure capitalism becomes if unchecked. The corporatists already own the government and are the real globalists. They don't need your help any more.

No one is calling for "total socialism". No one with any voice anyway. This is just more red scare ridiculousness that gets overblown time and time again.







 
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