Did this girl cheat on her SAT's or are they picking on her because she is black?

a reply to: Edumakated

The problem is that school admissions has never been just "merit based"

Totally agree with that, and I think that needs to change too!

As far as defining merit, for the majority it would be all about grades.
If you are going to school for art or sports or such, of course it would be based on your score, or portfolio.
Many art schools are moving to a system where ACT and SAT scores are not used, just your portfolio.

originally posted by: WUNK22
I did it, it’s my fault!! I really don’t care much for black “culture” and I’m a white male!

By culture I mean the inconceivable murder rates, crime rates, kill white devils rap lyrics, ya know “culture”

How about you stfu

I would lawyer up and demand they prove how she could have cheated...for them to go as far as rescind her scores to 0 is unbelievable

a reply to: JAGStorm

At the same time, for most people, seeing that color box checked would also raise a red flag -- don't eff with this unless you are very, very sure you have good reason to.

If you are flagging for score jump alone, you wouldn't give a second thought to some ethnicities, well, only one. If you saw that score jump on an Asian test paper, bias might incline you to think it was all natural.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JAGStorm

At the same time, for most people, seeing that color box checked would also raise a red flag -- don't eff with this unless you are very, very sure you have good reason to.

I'm going to follow this story. I'm genuinely curious to see how it plays out.
My guess is that they have some solid proof, now if that is enough to appease people is yet to be determined.
If they don't it's going to be quite the show and she deserves to sue.

originally posted by: KansasGirl
a reply to: JAGStorm


numerous ways to cheat, yes.

Everyone on this thread has glossed over my comment that there are students who pay other students to take the test for them.

So you think she paid another student to go in her school, pose as her unnoticed, and fooled her classmates simply because she had a great sat score...

But on the plus side, the ETS statement sounded very shaky and vague, as to not admitting fault.

It sounds like she has a case and probably won't even need scholarships to pay for college, if this is their alibi

An ETS official released a statement regarding the issue, saying, "We cannot discuss specific students' scores. After every test administration, we go to great lengths to make sure that all test scores we report are accurate and valid. In order to do so, we sometimes take additional quality control steps before scores are released."
We do not cancel scores based on a score gain alone; we will only cancel scores after we are confident that there is substantial evidence to do so."

Sue the pants off of them and sew it back on with the settlement money

The burden of proof is on them... and never check off your race if it says optional

"I turned in a letter from my tutor, a letter from my teacher and I wrote a statement myself. I also turned in pictures of the study book I used on my own," Campbell said. 

a reply to: odzeandennz

It's been a few years since I've taken the SAT and ACT, but I don't recall the process of having to announce who I was as being public. And for the ACT, I wasn't taking it with my classmates at all. I wasn't even in my own high school. I drove 40 minutes to another town and school entirely and took it in June. I saw no one there I knew, so I am guessing not one of them knew me, either.

a reply to: odzeandennz

the ETS statement sounded very shaky and vague

Vague, maybe, shaky not really.

This part:

"we will only cancel scores after we are confident that there is substantial evidence to do so"

If that is true, it means they have proof. "substantial evidence"...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: odzeandennz

It's been a few years since I've taken the SAT and ACT, but I don't recall the process of having to announce who I was as being public. And for the ACT, I wasn't taking it with my classmates at all. I wasn't even in my own high school. I drove 40 minutes to another town and school entirely and took it in June. I saw no one there I knew, so I am guessing not one of them knew me, either.

I took my sat in my schools auditorium and I knew almost all my junior classmates.... so...

a reply to: odzeandennz

So what? My point is that not always do you take those tests in an environment where you know anyone else around you. I certainly didn't. Of course, I only needed to take it once for both tests, so I have no idea how a retest works.

After reading through this thread the thing that confuses me the most is....why do they have a box for your race on American standardized tests for high school children?

When I wrote the standardized tests in highschool we didn't even write our name on it. The only identifying anything on the test was our student number. Even when the tests were marked the numbers were never correlated to student names, when we got our results it was again listed only by student number. There was never any point where I was asked for a single piece of identifying information other than that.

a reply to: JAGStorm

As quoted from the letter:

"We are writing to you because based on a preliminary review, there appears to be substantial evidence that your scores ... are invalid," it said. "Our preliminary concerns are based on substantial agreement between your answers on one or more scored sections of the test and those of other test takers. The anomalies noted above raise concerns about the validity of your scores."

So, the administrators who made this decision need to make all evidence available to back their claim and give her a chance to officially rebut/appeal the finding.

If the testing agency doesn't do that, then I call shenanigans. If they make it available and all that is done is the race card gets played, then I'm suspect of the girl.

I will say this: It's a bad thing to choose to get a "prominent civil rights attorney" to speak on your behalf and support you in this matter--the optics are terrible. But, if it's necessary, so be it. I do find it fishy that the attorney is demanding a response in two weeks when it usually takes 4-6 weeks to review score concerns...it's almost as if the attorney is asking for something relatively impossible on purpose.

Look, if the student worked hard and improved that much, then good on her and I applaud her efforts, but it this comes back as her having been involved in a cheating scandal during testing, then she will be doing much more damage to her reputation with colleges and dance schools than a lower test score could ever do.

Might be an interesting outcome either way, but now that the racial component is in the mix, the testing company will never win in the end, even if they turn out to be correct.

Do they take account, or even know, the person's skin colors from the test they are grading?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: JAGStorm

As quoted from the letter:

"We are writing to you because based on a preliminary review, there appears to be substantial evidence that your scores ... are invalid," it said. "Our preliminary concerns are based on substantial agreement between your answers on one or more scored sections of the test and those of other test takers. The anomalies noted above raise concerns about the validity of your scores."

So, the administrators who made this decision need to make all evidence available to back their claim and give her a chance to officially rebut/appeal the finding.

If the testing agency doesn't do that, then I call shenanigans. If they make it available and all that is done is the race card gets played, then I'm suspect of the girl.

I will say this: It's a bad thing to choose to get a "prominent civil rights attorney" to speak on your behalf and support you in this matter--the optics are terrible. But, if it's necessary, so be it. I do find it fishy that the attorney is demanding a response in two weeks when it usually takes 4-6 weeks to review score concerns...it's almost as if the attorney is asking for something relatively impossible on purpose.

Look, if the student worked hard and improved that much, then good on her and I applaud her efforts, but it this comes back as her having been involved in a cheating scandal during testing, then she will be doing much more damage to her reputation with colleges and dance schools than a lower test score could ever do.

Might be an interesting outcome either way, but now that the racial component is in the mix, the testing company will never win in the end, even if they turn out to be correct.

Ah and the plot thickens. So she want the only one caught apparantly.

That's not going to help her case much is it lol.

originally posted by: odzeandennz

originally posted by: WUNK22
I did it, it’s my fault!! I really don’t care much for black “culture” and I’m a white male!

By culture I mean the inconceivable murder rates, crime rates, kill white devils rap lyrics, ya know “culture”

How about you stfu

Triggered bigly.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
I would lawyer up and demand they prove how she could have cheated...for them to go as far as rescind her scores to 0 is unbelievable

She did.

Did you not read the article?

Or as Wayfarer would say: did you not hear the article?

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: odzeandennz
I would lawyer up and demand they prove how she could have cheated...for them to go as far as rescind her scores to 0 is unbelievable

She did.

Did you not read the article?

Or as Wayfarer would say: did you not hear the article?

I read the article ... and she did what "I would do"... mentalist.

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: odzeandennz

originally posted by: WUNK22
I did it, it’s my fault!! I really don’t care much for black “culture” and I’m a white male!

By culture I mean the inconceivable murder rates, crime rates, kill white devils rap lyrics, ya know “culture”

How about you stfu

Triggered bigly.

Not triggered, but disagree that that's all he thinks of an entire race of people. As if that's all black culture is, the stereotypes and belittling of a student of an entire race because of his ignorance

Of course a student trying to work hard and go to college would only be seem as the only negatives which whites have portrayed blacks as solely for so long. There's no cure for that ailment...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: odzeandennz

So what? My point is that not always do you take those tests in an environment where you know anyone else around you. I certainly didn't. Of course, I only needed to take it once for both tests, so I have no idea how a retest works.

That's great logic, your instance, you knew no one, therefore she knew no one, improved her score by 300 points, so she had a body double, and not because of 3 months of studying and tutoring... .