Miami Church hit with a 7 million dollar tax bill

www.miamiherald.com...
"The ‘ultimate nightmare scenario’ for this historic Miami church: A $7 million tax bill"

Here's what happened:

"claims the church has leased a portion of church grounds to a for-profit school and food trucks, violating its religious exemption status."
"To me, it sounds like you’ve got a church that is leasing out a school, they’re making money and not paying what they owe.”

I'm wondering if a lot more churches are going to be seeing tax bills in the near future.
This can't be the only place doing this. The entire church is not in tax violation, just a percentage.
I don't mean to be cynical, but I think it is somewhat humorous that the church is asking people to pray to resolve this problem!

"A spokesperson for the Miami-Dade Property Appraiser said the appraiser’s investigation of the church started after an anonymous tip was submitted via the county’s website."
therealdeal.com...

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.miamiherald.com...
"The ‘ultimate nightmare scenario’ for this historic Miami church: A $7 million tax bill"

Here's what happened:

"claims the church has leased a portion of church grounds to a for-profit school and food trucks, violating its religious exemption status."
"To me, it sounds like you’ve got a church that is leasing out a school, they’re making money and not paying what they owe.”

I'm wondering if a lot more churches are going to be seeing tax bills in the near future.
This can't be the only place doing this. The entire church is not in tax violation, just a percentage.
I don't mean to be cynical, but I think it is somewhat humorous that the church is asking people to pray to resolve this problem!

"A spokesperson for the Miami-Dade Property Appraiser said the appraiser’s investigation of the church started after an anonymous tip was submitted via the county’s website."
therealdeal.com...

Churches are businesses and need to pay their taxes, especially these mega churches. In addition, most are overtly political as well.

This is the biggest scam going.

You've literally got buck dancing, moon walking preachers buying lamborghinis, flying in private planes, driving Bentleys, etc and they have the audacity to claim they are non-profit...

Def agree, time to do away with tax exempt churches.
Time to pony up olsteen.

Do you think this is for profit?





Yummmmmyyyy

JAY-sus needs your money.
Don't you know that the more you give the more God loves you ?

Just ask those TV preachers driving a Ferrari.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I am not a fan of non-profits in general as we know most are very profitable, especially for the Directors and board members who often are rewarded with enormous salaries. Churches like the Catholic Church own some of the most valuable property in the world, and the Priest do recieve enormous tribute salaries and other perks "equivalent" to their post within the church. The EU is now collecting property tax on church holdings but I can only imagine the brokered deals they have.

Individuals do not recieved the favored status bequeathed to these nonprofits, preachers pay taxes on the salaries they recieve, so complaining about one buying a car for his wife is a little off, considering the money was not tax free, largely these preaches with enormous congregations do write lots of the self help type books and other times, so their labors are rewarded by other individuals purchasing those products and it's all taxable, including those jets. I think it's a bit over the top for them to do this, but chances are, if I could afford a Lambo, then I would have one too.

Lots of "non-profits" like Planned Parenthood are extremely profitable, again for Directors and board members and are also extremely political. All of them do provide needed services for a segment of our society that otherwise may suffer, Planned Parenthood provides medical services and Churches provide literally 10 of thousands of meals, child care, and other services to society as well.

When we were not as dependent upon government services as we are today, Churches are what stood between going without and getting a meal each day. Because of the litigious nature we have, Churches are not as able to provide as much as they once did. Municipal entities today prevent churches in many areas from providing in some cases, life saving services due to selfish reasons in my opinion, and federal money which often ends up in non profits pockets instead of being allegated to the actual targets.

Communities are better suited to provide help to neighbors than bloated agencies whose only goal is to maintain non profit status and enrich their suitors which includes those giving the exempt status. We should provide exemptions for specific programs that produce positive results, like housing the homeless, feeding families in need, but no blanket exemptions for organizations to include Churches that actually limit access and services to entire segments of society. And for those that abuse the privilege, they need to be stripped of the special status and penalized, all of them

a reply to: JAGStorm

I remember Orel Roberts claiming that god was going to strike him down unless he got $1 million in donations. Not sure if he reached his goal or not.

They're all pretty much crooks and crooked as far as I care. Isn't the Catholic church the largest private land owner in the world?

Tax 'em! Tax 'em hard.

a reply to: DJMSN

Churches are not as able to provide as much as they once did. Municipal entities today prevent churches in many areas from providing in some cases, life saving services due to selfish reasons in my opinion

There might be some truth to this, but there is also truth that some churches just don't want to help.
Joel Osteen got roasted when his church didn't open up for the Texas Flood victims, but he is far from alone. I have very religious relatives, and during a very similar catastrophic weather event, the church told it's workers to keep it secret that they were sheltering in there because they didn't want to open doors to the public OR it's own church members!!

a reply to: JAGStorm

Well that would be correct if they leased out their property to non-church functions (i.e food trucks and the secular school functions) yes they must pay tax on it. They only need to show the income from the leases and annie(sp?) up the actual do taxes.

many a pastor has gone to jail because of issues like this. But that is not half as bad as Ken Hovin who paid out salaries to himself, family and non-family employees of the church and never gave out their 1040's at the end f the years for 20 plus years. He was sent to prison only because he tried to prove to the court the IRS was wrong, when in fact he was wrong. ALL employees are taxable it is called income tax, whether you area pastor or a janitor in the church organization, you still owe income tax.

a reply to: Edumakated

I fully agree, the organism of the church was never meant to be an Organization. Once it became the church let itself out to be led by hirelings who cared not for the calling of God, and only for a nice salary, of which you have to pay income tax. This is why the church is so messed up.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Actually sound's to me that there is a tax inspector or whatever they call them in the US (or a group of them) whom has a distinct hatred for church's so has decided to go after this one with all the power he can muster.
Still remember one of the apostles, Matthew used to be a tax collector before he became an apostle of the Lord and they are still several hundred steps ahead of money changers and those that charge usury on loan's as far as salvation is concerned.
Also let's remember that some church's (and other sect's, charitable organizations etc) are actually little more than tax loophole setup's or become such especially in the case of Church establishment's so called private church foundation's which usually also double as charitable organizations - some clever lawyers and accountant's working for them so to catch a fly in the ointment often requires a very dedicated tax team of course.
But if it is a genuine case of an innocent mistake and a genuine church then this is overzealous crap on the part of the tax office simple as that.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I agree that Osteen dropped the ball but fairly close to the area I know that Sanctuary would not have been a place of sanctuary. While the church did not suffer from actual floods, it was completely cut off on all sides by water. No one could get to it, nor could supplies be brought or out until some of the water receded.

And most of the congregation, the volunteers who would have staffed the Sanctuary lived in the community and many lost everything, many could not have traveled out of their own neighborhoods to provide help with many in need of help themselves, so not exactly fair to call them out, especially when after the waters receded they did open their doors and provided many with much needed food and other material needs like clothes, mattresses, and in lots of cases safe transportation to shelters. The optics looked extremely bad, but through out the year they did and do provide many in that community with daily help that no one ever knows about.

The city dropped the ball as well as it's not the first time they have suffered flooding, they needed a better plan. Of course this one was beyond most but when one is affected they are always worse. Osteens money comes from his personal writings but he does live in a 10 million dollar home when asking for more. I do believe he is one of the better operators among many, but perhaps he has just not been caught yet I dont know. Again they all can do more to earn exemptions but the smaller community Churches are the ones who do the bulk of the work and with little to begin with, and in most cases there would be little tax gains

a reply to: DJMSN

Osteen, JHM and that prince guy are all multi millionaires, Osteen and that prince guy got onto a good number when they realized that motivational speaking get's a whole lot more lucrative when you prey on the religious community.
I pity them if they do not believe what they preach when they face there maker.
But if they do believe it I suspect he will give them a few stern word's on some point's were they are very wrong in there sermon's.
When they renounce there personal wealth, start living in poverty by giving all of that personal wealth to the poor and the needy (there is nothing wrong with making a living but there is a difference between a living and a king's ransom - thou shalt not muzzle the ox which ploweth the field).
Go sell all you own and come follow me.
The son of man has no place to lay his head - so no condominium's or multi millionaires mansions at least not on earth.
My kingdom is NOT of this earth.
The World is dead to me and I am dead to the world (st paul).
prayers4reparation.wordpress.com... ad-to-the-world/

a reply to: DJMSN

I agree that Osteen dropped the ball but

There are no buts....
The fact is that they could have just said their doors are open for anyone that needs it. If people couldn't reach it, then so be it.

Look at this guy!
www.cbsnews.com...
"A More Perfect Union: Houston businessman opens his doors to Harvey evacuees
On Sunday night he welcomed hundreds of people looking for refuge into his Gallery Furniture Stores. He also sent out trucks into the flood looking for those in need of safe passage"

a reply to: DJMSN

Yes and no. Some churches purchase planes and least cars under the churches name and it is therefore tax free.

Jaden

a reply to: JAGStorm

Here's an idea,

If you make a profit, i.e: if the income exceeds the expenses. Then you pay tax on the profit.

In that way, you ensure that not-for-profit organizations contribute just about everything and aren't really just businesses.

Perhaps grant a loophole for trust funds to be used only for emergency support in the case of natural disaster & etc. Also moneys spent for the public good, like in emergency housing, soup kitchens, clothing & furniture donations, anti-crime neighborhood initiatives, psychological support, family counseling and medical assistance, etc, could be considered legitimate write-offs.

There are people abusing the current system. Face it and fix it, but carefully so that the good things don't get thrown out with the bad.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek


It is "Oral" like the secks...

a reply to: JAGStorm

Remember what happened to the Superdome ? People destroyed it. They simply **** on the floor instead of bathrooms. They use all the fire extinguishers, busted out windows and just generally tore stuff up for no reason. If they had opened the doors and said come, then people who generally could not travel any where and would have been trapped without any help in flood waters. Pretty big but, considering claiming a place to be open and safe when it wasn't. I watched the video and saw for miles...literally nothing but water with patches here and there. Most were better off staying where they were as travel was more dangerous.

The congregation were also victims, they also were trapped in their own destroyed homes so who exactly was supposed to open the doors ? It was a no win situation and corrected as soon as it was a more navigable area. I am no fan of super televangelists but they have helped more than they have harmed. They certainly helped more than other non profits like Planned Parenthood, one of their main missions is to rid individuals of the extra baggage some consider life.

I am not even a religious person myself but realize it brings comfort to some, and they in turn provide comfort to others. There are con men in all walks of life, it's a trait of humanity, but hatred of religious because they are religious only perpetuates hate. Osteen and his church can sleep at night I am sure based on all they do on a daily basis in their community. Why the open disdain for this church when the city itself, the government, had zero...zero plan in place. They should have been ready to work with the church but instead were caught completely off guard.

The Churches and City should have had a plan, but to just say they should have...displays a lack of knowledge as to what actually occurred. A better job could have been done but they were as much victims as everyone else and in the end came thru and are still providing today even though FEMA, the city, and all the other non profits have moved on to the next easy money crisis.

originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: kelbtalfenek


It is "Oral" like the secks...

Always thought it was spelled differently...oops. He's a shuckster, I should be allowed to misspell his name.

A Church that is a 501(c)(3) non profit organization isn't supposed to generate a profit. So I would think that the income generated by any transaction would be considered OK as long as the Chruch's accounting records showed it was used for non profit projects.

They may have to call it a donation or a tithe and do some other legal dancing to be tax free, I don't know. But if just making a business transaction is what makes it taxable, then what about bake sales, or worse yet Bingo and other game nights? How are 501(c)(3) churches supposed to generate the income to continue operation?

I've been to church sponsored carnivals, the church didn't own and operate the rides, the church didn't sell the cotton candy and elephant ears, so was the church taxed? How was all that paid for if they weren't generating income through a contract with an amusement company or renting them the space to conduct business?

I should make it clear that not all churches are 501(c)(3) non profit organizations. The churches that are not non profit operate like any other business in regards to the operation of their organization. If that is the case, then everything the church does to generate revenue is taxable, not just renting out space for a school or a roach coach vendor. That wouldn't be an issue if they filed their taxes properly, otherwise they may have been audited and not reporting that income.