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6th Generation Fighter Meta Thread

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posted on Sep, 15 2020 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: mightmight

I bet there are a couple. NG and Lockheed at least. However, Boeing might have gotten a contract, but the prototype was probably grounded. XD




posted on Sep, 15 2020 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: anzha

Was one selected already?



posted on Sep, 15 2020 @ 07:59 PM
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edit on 15-9-2020 by glib2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2020 @ 08:01 PM
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There ya have it.



posted on Sep, 16 2020 @ 07:11 AM
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a reply to: Masisoar

They are not saying. Just that at least one has flown. They are being evasive for understandable, if frustrating, reasons.



posted on Sep, 16 2020 @ 07:12 AM
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a reply to: glib2

But it ain't a squiddy.



posted on Sep, 16 2020 @ 08:07 AM
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originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: glib2

But it ain't a squiddy.


I’m surprised they released this. You’re right. This article didn’t mention a squiddy. I wouldn’t be surprised if the navy’s next gen was involved.



posted on Sep, 16 2020 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: glib2

I actually would be surprised: the navy hasn't been spending the money to do this. The USAF spent literally billions. The total the Navy has spent is less than $100M.

The Navy has been putzing around, really. They have a lot of programmatic issues right now: LCS, Ford, Columbia, recent issues with the Virginias and the tail dragging for the F-35C. Which, ironically, they will be boosting the size of the wing on carriers from 10 to 16 planes.



posted on Sep, 16 2020 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: anzha

But does it add up?

On 0207110F they actually spent

32mil in FY16
282mil in FY18
429mil in FY19
905mil in FY20

Enough funding to build a demo on a budget, but also enough time to already fly it a couple of times? I'm not sure.
I know the defense news article talks at length about their new super duper fast engineering process and acquisition strategy, but tbh i wouldn't be surprised at all if those demos are actually leftovers from another project some time ago. Maybe an reused PCA/PEA demo? Updated 5.5 squid?

Also on a side note, can someone please tell all the stupid people out there, that they really did have long range strike demos with the actual billions they spent on 0604015F over the last decade? It's getting ridiculous.



posted on Sep, 16 2020 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: mightmight

What are you referring to with "Squid"?



posted on Sep, 17 2020 @ 04:34 AM
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a reply to: Masisoar

Navy

The JSF / F-35C was in a bad state a decade ago as was naval aviation in general. I believe the Navy was seriously lookig at alternatives in the face of a possible F-35C cancellation and the urgent need for replacement of older Hornets.

They didn't advertise this but pushed the F/A-XX effort publicly instead. Which was kinda weird at the time. They hadn't even started getting serious about JSF but where already looking at a follow on / replacement, while also pushing for a true UCAV capability with UCLASS.

I believe the true reason for this very early effort was to get theit ducks in a row in case of either the JSF going belly up or the political climate shifting to favor the development of a less expensive / constrained bird. Keep in mind they were looking at a price tag of well over 200 million and an endless list of technical issues for the F-35C at the time. Plus they didn’t like the JSF in principle considering the entire NATF/YF-24/JSF saga that preceded it.

Anyway, i think what was publicly referred to as F/A-XX included more than just paper studies from Phantom Works. If you look at the old press articles from a decade ago, Boeing Phantom Works stated publicly there were investing their own money to have tech ready to go if the military came knocking. That’s not just talk about some cool renderings.

There’s more but you get the idea.



posted on Sep, 17 2020 @ 04:35 AM
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a reply to: mightmight

I agree MightMight - I think that there was a lot of leftovers on the shelf that were used in this 12month demonstrator from inception to first flight. What about a unmanned YF23 proto lol

The 12 months aspect, considering the state of the world in the those last 12 months is also frankly outstanding. I do wonder if it was simply - a previous design and partially completed design with modifications they have ran OR and I am going out on a limb here - I wonder if they have totally changed the engineering process.

Hell its ATS - and its a conspiracy site after all - but I wonder if there has been any demonstrator or at least parts that may well have been experimentally constructed using the BAE Systems proposal for future UAVs etc from back in 2016 - where they literally "Grow" the parts needed?


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posted on Sep, 17 2020 @ 05:21 AM
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I wonder just how "developed" was the aircraft that flew: was it like the YF-17, which was quite close to the first F-18 iteration in terms of basic layout...or was it like the Hopeless Diamond / Have Blue, which was a basic proof of concept that led to the fairly different F-117A?

Either way, one thing to note is that the real breakthrough in the 6th generation aircraft is perhaps at this stage not so much the plane itself but the technology to actually develop and fine tune it in the 3D virtual world and then to rapidly and accurately manufacture it using digital manufacturing tech. Making advanced, reliable aircraft quickly and relatively cheaply is a real game changer if achieved.



posted on Sep, 17 2020 @ 05:28 AM
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a reply to: Borys

I agree, I think the days of long drawn out developments are gone - if not they should be! Announcing an aircraft contact - which then takes decades to actually be in service - in this day and age is wasteful. I think the lessons with the F35 proved that, whether or not those lessons are learnt from and implemented, especially from a funding perspective - remains to be seen.



posted on Sep, 17 2020 @ 05:58 AM
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a reply to: Borys

"6th Gen" = YF-23 flight characteristics + JSF avionics + AETP + LRS VLO

off the shelf 5th gen tech



posted on Sep, 17 2020 @ 12:14 PM
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Imagine a massive floating 3-D printing structure in the ocean printing Made-to-Order nextgen fighter aircraft to serve in combat. LOL.



posted on Sep, 17 2020 @ 05:15 PM
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Just wondering how much different it is to standard 3D design programs like Solidworks and CATIA.Both give the ability to create complex assemblies,provide stress and airflow testing on components and provide features for electrical and other systems..The ability to use VR in creating 3D has been around for a while now..A few companies are doing it for 3D printing so its seamless via Wifi so their is no physical contact between thought of part,design and creation.

edit on 17-9-2020 by Blackfinger because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2020 @ 05:01 PM
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From what i understand - admittedly not much - about this technology, I will take a stab at what these guys have done and why it is a gamechanger if indeed it is the case.

Over the past few years, CATIA, Solidworks, Ansys and dozens of other design and engineering analysis software have made it possible to speed up the design process for aircraft.

But the problem has been these are all distinct software applications. Sure, like with SAP R/3 HANA for business processes there is some handover, some flow and some integration, but the sheer complexity of taking distinct components and turning them into a reliably functioning aircraft is daunting. What I imagine has happened is that the capabilities offered by these systems have been tightly integrated into a single virtual environment, which can end to end show how components interact with each other, the flight regime, how changes to one impact the whole system. I also suspect there have been breakthroughs in the way this information is presented to engineers and the way they interact with the environment. This has made it easier to test how existing components will interact with new ones, how changes made will respond to the real world. This virtual environment where it all happens has been built up over decades of data from real world tests and experience, as well as mathematical modelling.

And that leads me to another potential breakthrough: the way this program is managed, the tools and thinking used. If you suddenly have this new capability to design in the virtual world, you will be more likely to take risks, to push designs without worrying about blowing the budget with sub scale, real world prototypes. You can simply push the nevelope harder, faster and cheaper.

This is what I suspect has happened. And this is before we even talk about digital manufacturing.

Finally...taxpayers will no longer need to bend over and smile... ;-)


a reply to: Blackfinger



posted on Sep, 19 2020 @ 04:02 AM
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I agree,file standardization and design pathways are always a pain with assemblies.Especially if your sending assembly files to different people and they have to upgrade one component.If a section doesnt have the updated file and puts that through to production well thats a problem with lost productivity and maybe a fatal flaw.
Ive seen it done with well known planes that are being rebuilt.Solidworks and CATIA have different modules for different disciplines.To have them all to integrate seamlessly in one file is an achievement.One problem is exporting to a CNC mill or a 3D printer as an SLT file and it needs to be edited.You have to get the original designer to edit the original file and resend the SLT file as its very difficult to muck around with.
P47 rebuild
edit on 19-9-2020 by Blackfinger because: added



posted on Sep, 19 2020 @ 05:28 AM
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And let's not forget what happens when you are not using the same version of CATIA...

www.cadalyst.com...

He he he...still get a laugh out of this after all these years...even if there is always a voice in the back of my head whispering "There by the Grace of God Go I..."

A bit of a stretch, but perhaps this image may provide a hint...



a reply to: Blackfinger



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