Yes, we can yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
freedom of speech implies to me that you are free to say whatever you want with out consequences and that is just not possible.

thats how i look it at as well

if doing a thing or saying a thing causes me to have to go to court or pay a fine or get arrested then i am not really free to say it

maybe on paper in fantasy land of rights we supposedly have and can not be taken


but down here in reality land saying certain things will cause you to deal with some #.
so not free to say those things.

all these rights we have. god given. inalienable and such

as much as people like to claim we are born with them and they can not be taken away that does not mean they are correct

down here in reality land those rights were thought up by people. one day we didnt have them and then they wrote it down with a feather and all of a sudden it is the gospel.

on paper its awesome. it is a good ideal and a good starting point.
not reality though

Of course you can yell "Fire" in a crowded theater, even if there is no fire.

The first amendment will not protect you from the consequences and potential lawsuits from private citizens.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Propagandalf

Yes I do have the absolute right to say what I want, and any punishment I receive is the consequence of your censorship.

Well no you don't, because if you walk up to a 8 year old girl and start on some perverted sexual rant about what you want to do to her.... you will be punished, not as a consequence of my censorship but as a consequence of the laws of that state that you would have broken. You freedom of speech therefore is not absolute it has limits that are set by the laws of the land.

Right, the punishment is a consequence of the laws, not my speech.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Of course you can yell "Fire" in a crowded theater, even if there is no fire.

The first amendment will not protect you from the consequences and potential lawsuits from private citizens.

That's false. "Limitless lawless action" is the standard in the first amendment.

a reply to: Propagandalf

Doesn't mater if I would or not.

Some people would.

If I run into a school auditorium and yell , "there's a gun man coming to kill us all right now, run!"
And everybody panics and people get hurt, do you really believe that I didn't brake the law in some way?

Would freedom of speech protect me?

I don't think you understand what the freedom of speech really is and who it protects and how.

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Propagandalf

Yes I do have the absolute right to say what I want, and any punishment I receive is the consequence of your censorship.

Well no you don't, because if you walk up to a 8 year old girl and start on some perverted sexual rant about what you want to do to her.... you will be punished, not as a consequence of my censorship but as a consequence of the laws of that state that you would have broken. You freedom of speech therefore is not absolute it has limits that are set by the laws of the land.

Right, the punishment is a consequence of the laws, not my speech.

And as I have said to you several times now.....

Let me make it very clear, you seem to be struggling wit this.

If this thread is basically you pointing out that humans can make a noise with their mouths then well done.

Nobody is debating that.

What is being pointed out to you is that you cannot just say whatever you want and not face some kind of punishment.

originally posted by: Propagandalf


Right, the punishment is a consequence of the laws, not my speech.

i see the point you are trying to make

but you live in a reality man

there is how you want it to be and how you say it is and how it really is

argue the semantics of it all you want

fact is saying a certain thing at a certain time or place or to a certain person will cause consequence for you.

thats really the bottom line

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Of course you can yell "Fire" in a crowded theater, even if there is no fire.

The first amendment will not protect you from the consequences and potential lawsuits from private citizens.

That's false. "Limitless lawless action" is the standard in the first amendment.

This is getting funny now.

It feels like the OP is getting confused between his ability to speak and freedom of speech



Dude please just admit you've made a dumb thread and move on to the next one because its getting embarrassing.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Propagandalf

If there are consequences, of any sort, then the freedom is not absolute, is it?

There's no such thing as absolute freedom of speech. Misuse of it brings consequence. If they're consequences you can live with, then fine.

I believe the actual consequences would be to the others getting trampled to death in panic.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: Propagandalf


Right, the punishment is a consequence of the laws, not my speech.

i see the point you are trying to make

but you live in a reality man

there is how you want it to be and how you say it is and how it really is

argue the semantics of it all you want

fact is saying a certain thing at a certain time or place or to a certain person will cause consequence for you.

thats really the bottom line

That's true. I only want to be clear of to whose feet should the consequence and blame lie: on those willing to silence others.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I really love your avatar omg it's the best! How did you get the eyes to blink like that?

originally posted by: ViXxeN
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I really love your avatar omg it's the best! How did you get the eyes to blink like that?

There is a Big....FAT...Furry (very furry)....Texan... whose politics I often disagree with but who is otherwise on the whole a lovely chap he made it for me after a night of passion that I am unable to discuss due to a NDA.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Propagandalf

Yes I do have the absolute right to say what I want, and any punishment I receive is the consequence of your censorship.

Well no you don't, because if you walk up to a 8 year old girl and start on some perverted sexual rant about what you want to do to her.... you will be punished, not as a consequence of my censorship but as a consequence of the laws of that state that you would have broken. You freedom of speech therefore is not absolute it has limits that are set by the laws of the land.

Right, the punishment is a consequence of the laws, not my speech.

And as I have said to you several times now.....

Let me make it very clear, you seem to be struggling wit this.

If this thread is basically you pointing out that humans can make a noise with their mouths then well done.

Nobody is debating that.

What is being pointed out to you is that you cannot just say whatever you want and not face some kind of punishment.

I'm not disputing that I will not face punishment, only that the punishment is not the consequence of my words. Do you not understand plain english?

No need to get angry. Maybe take a breather or find another thread.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Propagandalf

Doesn't mater if I would or not.

Some people would.

If I run into a school auditorium and yell , "there's a gun man coming to kill us all right now, run!"
And everybody panics and people get hurt, do you really believe that I didn't brake the law in some way?

Would freedom of speech protect me?

I don't think you understand what the freedom of speech really is and who it protects and how.

So you would panic. And you would blame someone else for your tendency to panic? Sorry, I don't share that arrogance.

a reply to: Propagandalf

I'm not disputing that I will not face punishment, only that the punishment is not the consequence of my words.

Ok lets try this another way.

You walk into a school dinner hall and shout "OMG THERE IS A ALIEN IN A SUIT CALLED OSOTC HE HAS A RAYGUN AND IS SHOOTING PEOPLE" and then all the kids panic and stampede out of the hall. The cops get called in, some poor kid gets his back broken in the panic, it causes a media frenzy hell there might even have been a accidental cop shooting or whatever. All of that would happen as a direct result of your words and you would face a punishment as a direct consequence of your words. That is to say your punishment would be directly as a result of what you said.

Do you not understand plain english?

I am starting to wonder about your comprehension but am a nice guy so am not going to go there.

No need to get angry

also not angry, actually I am rather enjoying this thread.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you willing to say that the persecution of Asia Bibi, sentenced to death for blasphemy in Pakistan, is her fault, the consequence of her words?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I guess yes we do have the freedom to say whatever the hell we want, our very ability to speak means we can say just about anything our biology is capable of saying.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I think I have a crush on You and that big fat furry Texan and DC Cowboy bless his heart!. I may disagree but please, dont let that come between us.

Passion inspires me, and strong men, keep me coming back for more.

originally posted by: Propagandalf
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you willing to say that the persecution of Asia Bibi, sentenced to death for blasphemy, is her fault, the consequence of her words?

Are you willing to stop deflecting and changing the topic.

As I have said to you I believe it is wrong for anyone to be sentenced to death for blasphemy or face any kind of punishment for blasphemy.

Now do you understand yet that as a direct result of your words you could face punishment and as a result you do not have absolute freedom of speech?

originally posted by: Propagandalf
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you willing to say that the persecution of Asia Bibi, sentenced to death for blasphemy in Pakistan, is her fault, the consequence of her words?

Warning warning false equivalence alert!!!!

Please remain seated till the strawman has came to a complete halt.