It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Propagandalf
SCotUS says, the test for when speech isn't free. Is that if the speech isn't going to cause imminent lawless action.
en.wikipedia.org...
The two legal prongs that constitute incitement of imminent lawless action is as follows:
Advocacy of force or criminal activity does not receive First Amendment protections if (1) the advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action, and (2) is likely to incite or produce such action.
So while yes, you can shout fire in a theater, your freedom of speech doesn't protect you if someone gets hurt because of your words caused something to happen.
originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Propagandalf
Sorry les the more I think about this thread the dumber it seems, its like your usual cacophony of clever sounding mumbo-jumbo that when you break it down is basically utter rubbish.
TLDR version of this thread.
Humans can make noises with their mouths so we have freedom of speech......
originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Propagandalf
Some are still killed for blasphemy or renouncing their faith. Those censors, of course, do so for the "safe and effective running of society". So I'm wary of excuses such as yours.
Well like I said in my first post I believe that the constrictions put on freedom of speech should be at a absolute minimum to ensure that we can express ourselves as fully as possible. The catch is where society draws that line and all societies draw it differently. Sure in some countries you can be killed for blasphemy and I think thats wrong I am not excusing that. This is not me making excuses this is simply the reality of live we need laws that stop idiots calling in bomb threads and then defending it as freedom of speech.
What I am trying to say to you is that what you call "censors" have to be there and that absolute freedom of speech does not exist. Do you agree or disagree with this?
PS: am not getting angry or whatever, I actually like debating the finder details of freedom of speech really I do, but when you break it down what you are saying is "Humans make noise with their mouths.....freedom of speech"
Well, no, the thread is a refutation of the common argument advocating censorship, that we cannot yell fire in a crowded theater.
originally posted by: JBIZZ
I have my own right to shoot that person in the head but I don't have a right to the consequences for shooting that person in the head.
originally posted by: TinySickTears
gandalf i think we went around about it before.
i dont remember
but where do you land
if something you say or do has a consequence then how can it be argued you have the freedom to do it or say it?
originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Propagandalf
You can post that video all you want but my question remains unanswered.
Just because you have the ability to speak does not grant you the absolute right to say whatever you want without any kind of consequences. Do you understand this?
originally posted by: Propagandalf
I'm a free speech absolutist, meaning I refuse to censor people. That's the best I can do.
imo freedom to do anything implies that i will still be free(or free of consequence) for doing it.
originally posted by: Propagandalf
Yes I do have the absolute right to say what I want, and any punishment I receive is the consequence of your censorship.
originally posted by: TinySickTears
originally posted by: Propagandalf
I'm a free speech absolutist, meaning I refuse to censor people. That's the best I can do.
i guess.
i am not saying anyone should or should not be censored.
i just cant wrap my head around people thinking you are free to say a thing if that thing is going to get your freedoms taken away.
thats how i look at it anyway
if me saying a thing or doing a thing will cause me to have freedoms taken away or some sort of consequence then in my mind i am not free to say it
originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Propagandalf
It's much different when a person on a stage is making a point that everyone is aware of.
I said YOU yell it while in the crowd.
You wont do it though because you know you will be arrested.
Yes I do have the absolute right to say what I want, and any punishment I receive is the consequence of your censorship.