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Israel in Syria began to play: Russia's patience is over

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posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: Wayfarer

Are you saying less than 10 years ago they were 50 years ahead of the US on EW? I never realized that. I thought it was the other way around.



No, the other way around. Russian sensors were still 70's-80's era technology when I was working on sensors in the late aughts, and the only new stuff they had were clever off the shelf crap that anyone else in the world also has. They couldn't afford the expensive stuff the US has.

RussianTroll is just blowing propaganda smoke up everyone's ass.




posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: Wayfarer
If you don't believe me get Zaphod in here to school y'all on the state of US warfighting capacity. I worked DoD on sensor/EW systems less than a decade ago and there was a whole generation gap between the US and Russia at that time. They didn't pull 50 years of advancement out of there ass in this decade, I can assure you.

Its a self-avowed Russian trollfarm account, making unabashed propaganda posts directly pulled from RT, why are we giving him serious consideration again?




Congrats you did nothing to address what the poster actually said............

Ill add to that, Challenge you any time to come spend even 3 weeks training like we did in the Corps and see if youre anywhere near as smug as you are now.......



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer


They didn't pull 50 years of advancement out of there ass in this decade, I can assure you.


You might be a little off on that.


American troops deployed in Syria are increasingly having to defend themselves against Russian jamming devices—electronic attacks with potentially lethal consequences, according to U.S. military officials and analysts.



U.S. Army Col. Brian Sullivan described one recent episode to reporters at the U.S. Defense Department last week. He said his troops had encountered a “congested … electronic warfare environment” while fighting in northeastern Syria during their nine-month deployment, which stretched from September 2017 to May 2018.



“All of a sudden your communications won’t work, or you can’t call for fire, or you can’t warn of incoming fires because your radars have been jammed and they can’t detect anything,” said Laurie Moe Buckhout, a retired Army colonel who specializes in electronic warfare.

“[It] can be far more deadly than kinetics simply because it can negate one’s ability to defend one’s self,” she said.
Foreign Policy


Its a self-avowed Russian trollfarm account, making unabashed propaganda posts directly pulled from RT, why are we giving him serious consideration again?


At least OP is honest about their bias. God knows that ATS has no shortage of trolls representing just about every ideology, some more clever than others.

As far as inclined outrage for one so honest with their username, it certainly makes their threads easier to navigate.

And honestly, they don't come off as too trollish to me.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: Wayfarer

Are you saying less than 10 years ago they were 50 years ahead of the US on EW? I never realized that. I thought it was the other way around.





RussianTroll is just blowing propaganda smoke up everyone's ass.


Knock Knock! Who is it? This is the Russian Avant-garde. With me, the company from Dagger, Poseidon, Peresvet and .... a long list)))



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: Wayfarer
If you don't believe me get Zaphod in here to school y'all on the state of US warfighting capacity. I worked DoD on sensor/EW systems less than a decade ago and there was a whole generation gap between the US and Russia at that time. They didn't pull 50 years of advancement out of there ass in this decade, I can assure you.

Its a self-avowed Russian trollfarm account, making unabashed propaganda posts directly pulled from RT, why are we giving him serious consideration again?




Congrats you did nothing to address what the poster actually said............

Ill add to that, Challenge you any time to come spend even 3 weeks training like we did in the Corps and see if youre anywhere near as smug as you are now.......


You did not understand the poster, my friend. If you offend Russian men, then Russian women will tear fur seals into a thousand gay men screaming MeToo))) And men will simply discuss a glass of vodka and restrain their women))))



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer
But I'd bet money that whatever it is, we've underestimated it.


How can you say this? Do you have experience working for the US military or as a contractor for high end military applications?

Literally one of the primary goals of the technological advancement that drives the US warmachine is specifically to assume overestimation of our opponents capabilities. Like, warfighter 101 is the first or second concept they drill into your head. I can assure you we are acutely aware of 99.9% of Russian capabilities (either because we've stolen their equipment, have defectors giving us the equipment or designs, or sussed out details through a mixed intelligence campaign where we derive specifics through logistical limitations).

I'll be the first to admit I find the amount of money the US spends on the military pretty galling, but the folks spending that money are not stupid, and they are especially not naive about Russia.

The irony about the OP is that Israel's military/sensor hardware (being primarily a product of US innovation) is in parts equally ahead of Russia, in contradiction to the OP's propaganda.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer
But I'd bet money that whatever it is, we've underestimated it.


How can you say this? Do you have experience working for the US military or as a contractor for high end military applications?

Literally one of the primary goals of the technological advancement that drives the US warmachine is specifically to assume overestimation of our opponents capabilities. Like, warfighter 101 is the first or second concept they drill into your head. I can assure you we are acutely aware of 99.9% of Russian capabilities (either because we've stolen their equipment, have defectors giving us the equipment or designs, or sussed out details through a mixed intelligence campaign where we derive specifics through logistical limitations).

I'll be the first to admit I find the amount of money the US spends on the military pretty galling, but the folks spending that money are not stupid, and they are especially not naive about Russia.

The irony about the OP is that Israel's military/sensor hardware (being primarily a product of US innovation) is in parts equally ahead of Russia, in contradiction to the OP's propaganda.


Any theory is verified by practice. There is a desire to check?))



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Asktheanimals


Question: Who here thinks Erdogan and Netanyahu made a deal to attack Syria together?


If you asked me if that was possible a year ago, I would have laughed.....

Then I saw all the weird temporary alliances their for the sake of that specific proxy war. My gut would tell me they wouldn't slight the Kurds and consequently the US by making nice with Turkey on that front, but after reading widespread accusations that Israel backed factions of Al Qaeda in Syria, I can no longer be surprised.


Youre right on that, the Kurds are a huge boon to Israel, they wouldnt risk losing that........



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Just to be clear I wasn't agreeing that Russia is ahead.

My point is that I think we have positioned ourselves to be vulnerable to their current capabilities which have vastly improved in the last ten years.

We've spent 6~ trillion in the war on terror with very little to show for it. Many of the advancements we've made in those wars are specific to non-conventional wars.

Aside from the money, and more importantly in my opinion is the manpower, efforts, and attention we've put over their as opposed to conventional enemies.

While I appreciate patriotism, American Exceptionalism bordering invincibility can get us into trouble.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


They didn't pull 50 years of advancement out of there ass in this decade, I can assure you.


You might be a little off on that.



What they're using in Syria is the 'off the shelf' crap I mentioned previously. Its remarkably effective precisely because its so cheap. Its also remarkably effective because we're not going to be goaded into deploying our newest counter EW equipment for Russia to oggle as relations between our nations deteriorate. One of the more frustrating parts of discovering just what tech level the US military has is the understanding that its advanced enough that its more valuable not using it (just so you can be certain your opponent doesn't have the chance to discover it).



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: RussianTroll




You did not understand the poster, my friend


The person claims they are having to use Google translate to hold conversation in English is telling me I didnt understand the poster? Thats a laugh in itself...




If you offend Russian men, then Russian women will tear fur seals into a thousand gay men screaming MeTo


Cool , gay bashing, thats a new low for you.......

I also find the immediate stars on your posts pretty interesting.......
edit on 12/28/2018 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: RussianTroll

Unfortunately, the situation has come up at a radical level.


Lol you say this about the Middle East...when has the ME not been full retarded on the extreme radical level?



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Asktheanimals


Question: Who here thinks Erdogan and Netanyahu made a deal to attack Syria together?


If you asked me if that was possible a year ago, I would have laughed.....

Then I saw all the weird temporary alliances their for the sake of that specific proxy war. My gut would tell me they wouldn't slight the Kurds and consequently the US by making nice with Turkey on that front, but after reading widespread accusations that Israel backed factions of Al Qaeda in Syria, I can no longer be surprised.


Youre right on that, the Kurds are a huge boon to Israel, they wouldnt risk losing that........


You're right. In Israel, 200,000 Jews of Kurdish origin. And the head of the Kurdish clan, Barzani, is an officer of the Mossad, like his son.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer


One of the more frustrating parts of discovering just what tech level the US military has is the understanding that its advanced enough that its more valuable not using it (just so you can be certain your opponent doesn't have the chance to discover it).


Kind of like holding back the deployment of the Browning Automatic Rifle?

All I'm saying is that underestimation has gotten us in trouble, and likely will.

There was a time that the top brass thought that Japanese wouldn't be effective pilots because of the shapes of their eyes.... Queue in Pearl Harbor (or so goes one of the official stories).



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker




We've spent 6~ trillion in the war on terror with very little to show for it. Many of the advancements we've made in those wars are specific to non-conventional wars.


R and D with military advancement isnt that linear, its not like they are only focusing on one sort of threat.......

Just because youre not seeing it doesnt mean its not happening at a fevered pace......

Most times youre not going to see our real capabilities until we absolutely have to pull it out of the closet .......like wayfarer said, were not going to use our coolest toys when we have no need to.....
edit on 12/28/2018 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer

Just to be clear I wasn't agreeing that Russia is ahead.

My point is that I think we have positioned ourselves to be vulnerable to their current capabilities which have vastly improved in the last ten years.

We've spent 6~ trillion in the war on terror with very little to show for it. Many of the advancements we've made in those wars are specific to non-conventional wars.

Aside from the money, and more importantly in my opinion is the manpower, efforts, and attention we've put over their as opposed to conventional enemies.

While I appreciate patriotism, American Exceptionalism bordering invincibility can get us into trouble.


I pretty much agree with your post. The US spends absurd amounts of money, so even if you count the money spent waging the war on terror as a waste, we're still outspending Russia with the remainder.

There are some advancements (mainly in the IT field) that are proving to be especially transferable in value even unto a conventional conflict, so its not all waste either.

Lastly, all the folks I worked with understood that while our technology was seemingly superior, that you never underestimate an enemy, so many scenarios were assessed with the assumption that the Russians secretly had some technology comparable/superior to ours (as I mentioned earlier, an extremely unlikely scenario).


edit on 52pm18fpmFri, 28 Dec 2018 13:36:08 -0600America/ChicagoFri, 28 Dec 2018 13:36:08 -0600 by Wayfarer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I hope you appreciate the Russian irony and Russian humor))) Believe me, the Russians make fun of themselves much harsher)))



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker

We've spent 6~ trillion in the war on terror with very little to show for it. Many of the advancements we've made in those wars are specific to non-conventional wars.


One thing to consider is we been actively at war for a very long time why others just play war. games..big difference. Another big part of that is we have had real world testing of our equipment and one just needs to look at the gains in the last 15 years to see just how our equipment has advance under real war use.

This is something no other has....



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: CriticalStinker




We've spent 6~ trillion in the war on terror with very little to show for it. Many of the advancements we've made in those wars are specific to non-conventional wars.


R and D with military advancement isnt that linear, its not like they are only focusing on one sort of threat.......

Just because youre not seeing it doesnt mean its not happening at a fevered pace......


And I don't doubt that, nor have I indicated I think we are behind so much as overstretched.

History has proven that great powers overstretched and focused on the wrong opponents have fallen to their arrogance.



posted on Dec, 28 2018 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer




so many scenarios were assessed with the assumption that the Russians secretly had some technology comparable/superior to ours


And from I understand from friends that work in areas developing such tech, that is the approach that is taken.....its better to ASSUME your potential enemy is at least on the same level that you are, and work to develop tech to counter that....



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